Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

Earburner · Mar 24, 2019

Dave L said:
You cannot repent unless you are first alive to God.

Through Christ, repentance is recognizing one's need to receive God. Salvation is the actual act of receiving God.

Phoneman777 · Mar 24, 2019

Anthony D'Arienzo said:
The nation was picked among all the nations. An elect remnant was going to be called from out of that one nation.

What's another theological word for "picked"? It rhymes with "wrecked" which is what I've just done to your point.

They were initially elected/picked/chosen/selected/however you want to say it - but then rejected thereafter, and whatever God-ordained arrangement that followed has no bearing on that which happened beforehand.

Earburner · Mar 24, 2019

Dave L said:
Grace feeds people intravenously who are in comas and cannot eat.

A person who is in a coma (unconscious) cannot enter into a covenant relationship with God. Therefore, should such a person die in the state of a coma, they will have died without God, remaining to be "condemned already". John 3:18

Earburner · Mar 24, 2019

Dave L said:
1.16 κόλπος Ἀβραάμ: (an idiom, literally ‘Abraham’s bosom’) the heavenly abode, with the implication of close interpersonal relations—‘Abraham’s bosom, heaven.’ ἀπενεχθῆναι αὐτὸν ὑπὸ τῶν ἀγγέλων εἰς τὸν κόλπον Ἀβραάμ ‘he was borne by angels to Abraham’s bosom’ or ‘… heaven’ Lk 16:22.

Louw, J. P., & Nida, E. A. (1996). Greek-English lexicon of the New Testament: based on semantic domains (electronic ed. of the 2nd edition., Vol. 1, p. 4). New York: United Bible Societies.

Unfortunately, all who believe that way, also believe that every person has an eternal soul.
Man didn't get a living soul, he BECAME a living soul, of which is equal to "animal life" . See Genesis.

justbyfaith · Mar 24, 2019

Earburner said:
Correct! The miracle is, he was resuscitated back to physical life, restored in the fulness of his faculties.

After being four days in the grave, Lazarus was surely dead.

justbyfaith · Mar 24, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
Romans 10:17 is proof positive that faith is not innate in fallen man. If it was, then hearing the word would not bring faith.

Rest in the fact that the Christ died for you. Yes, we need to rejoice in God saving us, but it was the Christ dying for us that procured our salvation. Election took place before God said 'Let there be light', but our salvation takes place in time.

But who calls upon the Lord? We must see that it is God who is drawing the lost to Himself through the Christ. He plainly stated "All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out."[John 6:37] You can take it to the bank that if someone is truly seeking the Christ, they will find Him. Yet, not everyone was given to Him by the Father. All the Father gave Him, He died for[John 10:11, John 10:15, Ephesians 5:25], and will save them.

Likewise, you can take it to the bank that if someone does what it says to do in Romans 10:13, they are one of the elect.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2019

justbyfaith said:
Likewise, you can take it to the bank that if someone does what it says to do in Romans 10:13, they are one of the elect.

Everyone who calls upon the Lord will be saved. I agree.

justbyfaith · Mar 24, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
Everyone who calls upon the Lord will be saved. I agree.

From my perspective there is no need to argue any further, then.

I think you really do understand that if everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved, that those who fail to do so have not yet been born again.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2019

justbyfaith said:
From my perspective there is no need to argue any further, then.

I think you really do understand that if everyone who calls on the name of the Lord shall be saved, that those who fail to do so have not yet been born again.

Bruh, I never averred anything different. God does not press His hand against anyone who seeks Him, as if He denies them to approach Him. That’s why the effectual calling of God is a very necessary.

Dave L · Mar 24, 2019

Earburner said:
Unfortunately, all who believe that way, also believe that every person has an eternal soul.
Man didn't get a living soul, he BECAME a living soul, of which is equal to "animal life" . See Genesis.

Yet we read of eternal torment for the wicked.

Dave L · Mar 24, 2019

Earburner said:
A person who is in a coma (unconscious) cannot enter into a covenant relationship with God. Therefore, should such a person die in the state of a coma, they will have died without God, remaining to be "condemned already". John 3:18

The covenant relationship is between the Father and the Son. And the New Birth saves all for whom God meant to save, coma or no coma.

Dave L · Mar 24, 2019

Earburner said:
Through Christ, repentance is recognizing one's need to receive God. Salvation is the actual act of receiving God.

No, that is salvation by works, not grace.

Dave L · Mar 24, 2019

Earburner said:
Correct! The miracle is, he was resuscitated back to physical life, restored in the fulness of his faculties.

After rotting for 4 days?

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2019

Dave L said:
After rotting for 4 days?

It seems the body starts decaying on day four. Embalming in those days is different than now...I know you know this...just stating this to keep the thread going. The Jews at that time held to a belief the spirit would hover around for 3 days in hopes of re-entering the body. Once the spirit saw decay start on day 4, it would leave. That’s why the Christ came on the 4th...so the Jews could not use that belief as an excuse for Lazarus coming back to life.

It seems to me that’s why the Christ’s resurrection was on day 3, so that His body would not start decaying. For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.[Psalm 16:10]

Dave L · Mar 24, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
It seems the body starts decaying on day four. Embalming in those days is different than now...I know you know this...just stating this to keep the thread going. The Jews at that time held to a belief the spirit would hover around for 3 days in hopes of re-entering the body. Once the spirit saw decay start on day 4, it would leave. That’s why the Christ came on the 4th...so the Jews could not use that belief as an excuse for Lazarus coming back to life.

It seems to me that’s why the Christ’s resurrection was on day 3, so that His body would not start decaying. For You will not abandon my soul to Sheol; Nor will You allow Your Holy One to undergo decay.[Psalm 16:10]

But they said Lazarus stinks by now.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2019

Dave L said:
But they said Lazarus stinks by now.

That’s right. He was decaying because it was day 4.

CoreIssue · Mar 24, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
That’s right. He was decaying because it was day 4.

Assumption. Not said.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Assumption. Not said.

Well, Martha said ”Lord, by this time there will be a stench, for he has been dead four days.”[John 11:39] She seemed to believe he was already rotting by this time.

CoreIssue · Mar 24, 2019

SovereignGrace said:
Well, Martha said ”Lord, by this time there will be a stench, for he has been dead four days.”[John 11:39] She seemed to believe he was already rotting by this time.

Assumption. The tomb was sealed.

SovereignGrace · Mar 24, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Assumption. The tomb was sealed.

Remember, at that time, embalming was putting spices around the corpse and wrapping it to keep the scent down. One can be buried w/o being embalmed but it has to be within 24 hours of their death. Why? The body starts decaying. How long does it take? Don’t know...don’t wanna find out. Lullz.

Without unconditional Election,no one would be saved.

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