For many are called but few chosen

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Dave L

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Not biblical. It is more than spiritual.
Please consider the spiritual nature of the Kingdom:

“And saying, Repent ye: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.” (Matthew 3:2) (KJV 1900)

“And from the days of John the Baptist until now the kingdom of heaven suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force.” (Matthew 11:12) (KJV 1900)

“Verily I say unto you, There be some standing here, which shall not taste of death, till they see the Son of man coming in his kingdom.” (Matthew 16:28) (KJV 1900)

“Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.” (1 Corinthians 15:50)

“Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.” (John 3:3) (KJV 1900)

“Jesus answered, “I tell you the solemn truth, unless a person is born of water and spirit, he cannot enter the kingdom of God.” (John 3:5)

“Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.” (John 18:36) (KJV 1900)

“And when he was demanded of the Pharisees, when the kingdom of God should come, he answered them and said, The kingdom of God cometh not with observation:” (Luke 17:20) (KJV 1900)

“Neither shall they say, Lo here! or, lo there! for, behold, the kingdom of God is within you.” (Luke 17:21) (KJV 1900)

“But if I cast out demons by the finger of God, then the kingdom of God has already overtaken you.” (Luke 11:20)

“because we are not looking at what can be seen but at what cannot be seen. For what can be seen is temporary, but what cannot be seen is eternal.” (2 Corinthians 4:18)

“Now when the people saw the miraculous sign that Jesus performed, they began to say to one another, “This is certainly the Prophet who is to come into the world.” Then Jesus, because he knew they were going to come and seize him by force to make him king, withdrew again up the mountainside alone.” (John 6:14–15)

“He delivered us from the power of darkness and transferred us to the kingdom of the Son he loves,” (Colossians 1:13)

When Jesus saw that he answered intelligently, He said to him, “You are not far from the kingdom of God.” And no one dared to question Him any longer.” (Mark 12:34) (HCSB)

“for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness, peace, and joy in the Holy Spirit.” (Romans 14:17) (HCSB)
 
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CoreIssue

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It's spiritual and happening now. But only the born again can see it.

At that time he said it was not of this earth but in heaven.

But even then you had flesh in heaven. For living beings and Enoch and Elijah.

Christ will rule from the earthly Jerusalem with an iron scepter 1000 years.

Very physical new Jerusalem will descend upon the new earth for eternity.
 
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Dave L

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At that time he said it was not of this earth but in heaven.

But even then you had flesh in heaven. For living beings and Enoch and Elijah.

Christ will rule from the earthly Jerusalem with an iron scepter 1000 years.

Very physical new Jerusalem will descend upon the new earth for eternity.
Things continue now with Satan loosed and attacking the Church until the end of the world. Then the resurrection (which is the restoration of Israel), rapture, and eternal kingdom in the new heavens and earth forever,
 
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CoreIssue

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Things continue now with Satan loosed and attacking the Church until the end of the world. Then the resurrection (which is the restoration of Israel), rapture, and eternal kingdom in the new heavens and earth forever,

So many misstatements.

There are not new heavens. There is one.

New Jerusalem is on the earth, not in heaven, for eternity and God lives in it with us.

The end of the earth does not occur for 1000 years after the rapture. During which time Satan is chained in the pit.

There are two resurrections. The one at the end of the world is for the damned, not the saints.
 
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Dave L

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So many misstatements.

There are not new heavens. There is one.

New Jerusalem is on the earth, not in heaven, for eternity and God lives in it with us.

The end of the earth does not occur for 1000 years after the rapture. During which time Satan is chained in the pit.

There are two resurrections. The one at the end of the world is for the damned, not the saints.
You are superimposing a Pharisaic understanding of the kingdom onto the bible. And you end up with false prophecy.
 

CoreIssue

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You are superimposing a Pharisaic understanding of the kingdom onto the bible. And you end up with false prophecy.

So the Bible doesn't say new heaven and new earth? Does not say the new Jerusalem will descend upon the new earth and we lived together with God for eternity in it?
 
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Dave L

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So the Bible doesn't say new heaven and new earth? Does not say the new Jerusalem will descend upon the new earth and we lived together with God for eternity in it?
“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)
 
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CoreIssue

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“But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up. Seeing then that all these things shall be dissolved, what manner of persons ought ye to be in all holy conversation and godliness, Looking for and hasting unto the coming of the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat? Nevertheless we, according to his promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness.” (2 Peter 3:10–13)

Yet you deny the reality of this future.

Heavens refers to outer space meaning the stars, sun, moon , planets, etc.

The Bible speaks of three heavens. Those being our atmosphere, outer space and dwelling place of God.

The Dwelling place of God moves to the new Jerusalem On the new earth.

There won't be any sun and moon etc.

What I see is it will be like in Genesis 1: 1. Then there was the earth, dwelling place of God and everything else. There'll be no darkness and everything will be accessible. The Earth did not have oceans, etc. No sun, moon or stars. So one heaven and one earth.



The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number:
3772 Browse Lexicon
Original Word
Word Origin
oujranovß perhaps from the same as (3735) (through the idea of elevation); the sky
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Ouranos 5:497,736
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
oo-ran-os' Noun Masculine
Definition
  1. the vaulted expanse of the sky with all things visible in it
    1. the universe, the world
    2. the aerial heavens or sky, the region where the clouds and the tempests gather, and where thunder and lightning are produced
    3. the sidereal or starry heavens
  2. the region above the sidereal heavens, the seat of order of things eternal and consummately perfect where God dwells and other heavenly beings
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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When Christ abolished circumcision, physical Jews and Physical Israel ceased to exist when that generation the apostles preached to died off. Judaism is a religion, not a race. And circumcision made one a physical member.

1) The Lord Jesus did NOT abolish circumcision (recall that Paul circumcised Timothy himself, well after the Resurrection). Physical Jews still live on the earth today--they are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel. 2) I never said that the children of Jacob are a race. Race is a false construct anyway. All humans are members of the human race. Saying anything more than that is what has led to genocide and "racism". All humans are cross-fertile which makes them members of the same species. There are some variations but the "variations" between "races" involve no more genes than the variations within "races". There is a more profound difference between males and females (the genetic differences involve every cell of the body) than there is between two males of different "races". What you have implied is not only antisemitic but racist as well.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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So many misstatements.

There are not new heavens. There is one.

New Jerusalem is on the earth, not in heaven, for eternity and God lives in it with us.

The end of the earth does not occur for 1000 years after the rapture. During which time Satan is chained in the pit.

There are two resurrections. The one at the end of the world is for the damned, not the saints.

While I agree that there is only one "heavenly" heaven--the place where God dwells, it is important to note that the ancients believed that there were three kinds of heaven (including, apparently, the Apostle Paul). Paul said he was "caught up to the third heaven"--that is, where God dwells. There were two other heavens spoken of--1) that of the atmosphere around our planet (where the birds fly) and 2) that of the space beyond our atmosphere (that is, the physical universe wherein are the stars, planets and moons). There is evidence in Scripture that, in the course of God's bringing in everlasting righteousness, all three heavens will be disrupted (1) the sky will be "rolled up" and 2) the sun and moon will be affected in addition to 3) there being a "war in heaven" wherein God's holy archangel, Michael, is victorious over Satan.
 

CoreIssue

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1) The Lord Jesus did NOT abolish circumcision (recall that Paul circumcised Timothy himself, well after the Resurrection). Physical Jews still live on the earth today--they are the physical descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob/Israel. 2) I never said that the children of Jacob are a race. Race is a false construct anyway. All humans are members of the human race. Saying anything more than that is what has led to genocide and "racism". All humans are cross-fertile which makes them members of the same species. There are some variations but the "variations" between "races" involve no more genes than the variations within "races". There is a more profound difference between males and females (the genetic differences involve every cell of the body) than there is between two males of different "races". What you have implied is not only antisemitic but racist as well.

Scientifically, mankind is one species that contains five races and numerous sub races.

Jews are sub race semitic of the Caucasoid race.

I am Caucasoid and mongoloid. Celtic and American Indian.

But to me I'm a very conservative literal Bible only American Vet.

My family has a very long history in the US and were first in settlers to Kentucky.

What does that mean today? Nothing except I can never be said to come from a family of slaveowners.
 

APAK

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More insight into the thread and OP.....

A little backdrop: In the time of Jesus and before, it was customary that the King inviting his guests to a feast in his Kingdom, wore the clothes that he alone provided. In this parable, God, our Father, provides his own righteousness garments to us through his Son’s spirit if our heart accepted him. Our own free-will does not dictate the Father’s righteousness; it can only produce self-righteousness.

1. The Father knows all acceptable hearts that shall eventually come to him willingly and accept his grace and love. He already ‘saw’ these before time and creation began. Then there are hearts that shall not come to the Father at all. They are those that are independent and are ruled by their own devices and free-will. Their hearts are hardened and closed, full of pride and are permanently lost. They will not allow the Father to enter in willingly without adding specific reservations- from the free-will mind. They never give their heart to the Father by allowing Christ’s spirit to reside there.


2. However, the Father chose and works in the receptive hearts and first cultivates them for planting the seed of life. He makes or ignites the heart to ache towards him through our its heartfelt desire HE, the FATHER triggers FIRST. This is not acting on our so-called free-will of carnality. This is a much deeper desire, a spiritual desire that the will of the mind had no effect. All of the imperfections of the heart or human spirit causes by sin are brought to the forefront in humility and sorrow. Our heart then yearns to show the Father, for his viewing, healing and repair. Our hearts want to change towards the Father, permanently! There has to be a spiritual need FIRST. The free-will mind cannot generate or choose to have a spiritual need for the Father. It is impossible.


3. So, this spiritual need and desire is what is meant by opening the heart to the Father through our spirit not our mind of so-called free-will. It is like a spiritual conception – the human heart of spiritual nature united to the spirit of God through/with Christ’s spirit.

4. This then is the King inviting us to his home (his Kingdom) and union through and because of His only son. This is the Father knocking on the door of our heart at the moment of the Father’s choosing not of our own mind that cannot understand spiritual things.

5. It is the King’s desire to open our hearts and plant his son within us, to grow together and be together forever.

6. This is why he created a perfect spirit, his Son of the human kind, fitted perfectly for our ‘new’ hearts or ‘new person.’

7. This is our mark or seal of approval, our garment that permanently always worn starting at the wedding feast. We are wearing righteousness not of ourselves, of the Father; and the planted spirit of Christ ensures its permanency.

8. The Kingdom is then officially entered after the wedding ceremony and feast. It is the official permanent bonding act whereas previously it was just considered courting, an affectionate and faithful attachment to the Father through the baptism of Christ within us. Note: the salvation of the heart was always not in question and was always secure!


9. We are thus chosen because of the Father’s willingness to open our heart and our own willingness to permit him, to follow him with the Son into eternity.


It is impossible for the human mind with free-will to choose anything of spiritual value that leads to eternal life. The carnal ‘free’ mind is alien to the ways of God, who should be everyone’s Father, and not.


As @Dave L quoted Romans 14:17 in his recent post, and with my take on it for the subject of spiritual garments: Those already in the Kingdom of the Father wear their garments of righteousness, peace and joy, and are waiting for its permanence at the wedding feast of the Son.

Blessing to all,

APAK
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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The OT does not say that, the Jewish bible the Talmud says it along with other nasty things about Jesus and Christians. Google it,you won't believe it.


The "Jewish Bible" is NOT THE TALMUD!! The Hebrew Scriptures are equivalent to our Old Testament (how do you think we obtained it--from space aliens??). There is no such thing as the "Jewish Bible". The Hebrew Scriptures are called the Tanakh. The Talmud is just a commentary and some rabbis have said that it has far outlived its usefulness. It is pretty weird but few Jews pay any attention to it (and the ones who do are probably Satanists and practitioners of the Kabbalah).
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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Scientifically, mankind is one species that contains five races and numerous sub races.

Jews are sub race semitic of the Caucasoid race.

I am Caucasoid and mongoloid. Celtic and American Indian.

But to me I'm a very conservative literal Bible only American Vet.

My family has a very long history in the US and were first in settlers to Kentucky.

What does that mean today? Nothing except I can never be said to come from a family of slaveowners.

We have been trained to think in terms of "race" but it is a more or less arbitrary distinction that has been downgraded since the human genome project has mapped out the migration patterns of the humans and where genes pop up as evidence of those migratory patterns. There are odd patterns that show up, such as a specific gene that showed up in the Pharaohs of Egypt that next appeared in the British Isles. How that happened is anyone's guess. Maybe Thor Heyerdahl was correct that the ancient Egyptians were more mobile than anyone thought??
 

Enoch111

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The Hebrew Scriptures are called the Tanakh.
That is correct. And the Lord Jesus Christ gave the Tanakh His divine approval by showing His apostles that He had been revealed in (1) Torah (the Law of Moses) -- 5 books; (2) Neviim (the Prophets) -- 8 books; and (3) Ketuvim (the Writings or the Psalms) -- 11 books (with Psalms as the first one).

LUKE 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in [1] the law of Moses, and in [2] the prophets, and in [3] the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,[THE TANAKH]
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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The proof is in his describing the kingdom as now present, and spiritual numerous times. He never mentions the Pharisees physical kingdom idea as being true, only false.


Jesus NEVER said that the physical Kingdom would not one day be a reality. He said, at His first advent, that His Kingdom was, at that time, a spiritual reality. Just as the Temple was a real physical object, so there is a spiritual one in heaven (see Revelation 14:17)
 

Lady Crosstalk

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That is correct. And the Lord Jesus Christ gave the Tanakh His divine approval by showing His apostles that He had been revealed in (1) Torah (the Law of Moses) -- 5 books; (2) Neviim (the Prophets) -- 8 books; and (3) Ketuvim (the Writings or the Psalms) -- 11 books (with Psalms as the first one).

LUKE 24
44 And he said unto them, These are the words which I spake unto you, while I was yet with you, that all things must be fulfilled, which were written in [1] the law of Moses, and in [2] the prophets, and in [3] the psalms, concerning me.
45 Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,[THE TANAKH]
46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day:
47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
49 And, behold, I send the promise of my Father upon you: but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem, until ye be endued with power from on high.

Yes, He also said in John 10:35 that "the Scriptures cannot be broken". Since the only Scriptures that existed when Jesus walked the earth were the Hebrew Scriptures--the Tanakh, He put His stamp of authority on them.
 
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Dave L

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Jesus NEVER said that the physical Kingdom would not one day be a reality. He said, at His first advent, that His Kingdom was, at that time, a spiritual reality. Just as the Temple was a real physical object, so there is a spiritual one in heaven (see Revelation 14:17)
He taught a spiritual kingdom only. And the Pharisees killed him for that and other teachings.