Something You Need to Think About!!

I haven't found a rapture doctrine in the scriptures. what I have seen people do I believe is take scripture out of context to prove their rapture doctrine. I don't believe in taking scriptures out of context to prove a point or belief. I know those who believe in the rapture will honestly believe they're not taking scripture out of context. I will always say that people have the right to believe what they want as long as they don't infringe on the rights of others. That doesn't mean I have to agree with them and because I disagree doesn't necessarily mean I'm wrong.

GISMYS_7 said:

The catchinh up IS the rapture!!! Read slowly and learn.

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I personally have no problems with 1 Thes 4:13-18 being quoted for the catching up when the second coming at the end of the age of the ages, occurs. What I object to, as I believe others on this forum also do, is the timing of this so called gathering up, simply because they believe that it is a near future event and not as described as a distant future event.

Armageddon is a near future event when God will judge the angels in heaven and the kings of the earth on the earth at Armageddon and both the angels and the kings of the earth will be imprison in the bottomless pit for 1,000 years, after which we will have the Satan and the beast and the false prophet rising up out o the bottomless pit which precedes the great falling away and the tribulation.

So if GIS is looking for a near future event of the catching up, then he is referencing the wrong time period for this event to occur.

That was
why I aske which second coming he was referencing. Was it in God's timeframe or in his wishful thinking time frame?

GISMYS_7 said:

The catchinh up IS the rapture!!! Read slowly and learn.
1 Thes 4
[13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope.
[14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him.
[15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.
[16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:
[17] Then we which are alive and remain """shall be caught up""" together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
[18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

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This happens on the last day.

Why do you think "harpazo" has been turned into "

tzcho2 said:

Ha yourself. The word is harpazo
Strong's Greek Search: snatching away

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well, why do you think that is not xlated "rapture" then? Iow your argument is not even making logical sense? But then you believe Eternal = Immortal too right? You seek to attain heaven after you have literally died, etc?
Mithras in comparison with other belief systems | Wikiwand

bbyrd009 said:

Why do you think "harpazo" has been turned into "
well, why do you think that is not xlated "rapture" then?
Iow your argument is not even making logical sense? But then you believe Eternal = Immortal too right? You seek to attain heaven after you have literally died, etc?
Mithras in comparison with other belief systems | Wikiwand

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So, is it just way, way too hard for you to type actual words rather then the use of abbreviations? This is not texting.
Just Too, too hard to type - "In other words" or "translated?"
You stated, that my "argument" was not making logical sense to you?" Well, I never posted an "argument", I only posted the literal word in Greek for rapture is "harpazo" because of your mocking remark about the word rapture not being in the Bible--harpazo is the actual word.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726 harpazo]together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Strong's #726: harpazo (pronounced har-pad'-zo)
from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

harpazō

1) to seize, carry off by force

2) to seize on, claim for one' s self eagerly

3) to snatch out or away

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from a derivative of G138

Matthew 11:12: "suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."
Matthew 13:19: "the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart."
John 6:15: "they would come and take him by force, to make him"
John 10:12: "and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the"
John 10:28: "they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them"
John 10:29: "and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
Acts 8:39: "water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch"
Acts 23:10: "the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them,"
2 Corinthians 12:2: "I cannot tell: God knoweth such a one caught up to the third"
2 Corinthians 12:4: "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words,"
1 Thessalonians 4:17: "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in"
Jude 1:23: "save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating"
Revelation 12:5: "and her child was caught up unto God, and to his"

tzcho2 said:

So, is it just way, way too hard for you to type actual words rather then the use of abbreviations? This is not texting.
Just Too, too hard to type - "In other words" or "translated?"
You stated, that my "argument" was not making logical sense to you?" Well, I never posted an "argument", I only posted the literal word in Greek for rapture is "harpazo" because of your mocking remark about the word rapture not being in the Bible--harpazo is the actual word.

1 Thessalonians 4:15-18
"For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up [G726 harpazo]together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. Wherefore comfort one another with these words."

Strong's #726: harpazo (pronounced har-pad'-zo)
from a derivative of 138; to seize (in various applications):--catch (away, up), pluck, pull, take (by force).
Thayer's Greek Lexicon:

harpazō

1) to seize, carry off by force

2) to seize on, claim for one' s self eagerly

3) to snatch out or away

Part of Speech: verb

Relation: from a derivative of G138

Matthew 11:12: "suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."
Matthew 13:19: "the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart."
John 6:15: "they would come and take him by force, to make him"
John 10:12: "and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the"
John 10:28: "they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them"
John 10:29: "and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
Acts 8:39: "water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch"
Acts 23:10: "the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them,"
2 Corinthians 12:2: "I cannot tell: God knoweth such a one caught up to the third"
2 Corinthians 12:4: "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words,"
1 Thessalonians 4:17: "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in"
Jude 1:23: "save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating"
Revelation 12:5: "and her child was caught up unto God, and to his"

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The passage seems clearly to speak of what we call the Rapture, indeed!

tzcho2 said:

I only posted the literal word in Greek for rapture is "harpazo" because of your mocking remark about the word rapture not being in the Bible--harpazo is the actual word.

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not meaning to be mocking at all, just asking why Scripture xlates a diff root "rapture" than you are? I guess a couple diff roots, Chamad, Gil, chemsah, but not harpazo? Hence the "not making logical sense," sorry; to you

Um and you don't think "carry off by force" is maybe a tell, a clue?

farouk said:

The passage seems clearly to speak of what we call the Rapture, indeed!

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At the very END agree....not some sudden zapping out of trouble as is so falsely taught ...
The 'rapture ' as taught... and all the threads that GISMY keeps posting is all about - The Gospel Of Self - "all about me"....

From Gen - Rev is all about HIM, it's not about us!!!

The rapture 'as taught' is all about self preservation.

"ByGrace" said:

At the very END agree....not some sudden zapping out of trouble as is so falsely taught ...
The 'rapture ' as taught... and all the threads that GISMY keeps posting is all about - The Gospel Of Self - "all about me"....

From Gen - Rev is all about HIM, it's not about us!!!

The rapture 'as taught' is all about self preservation.

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The church is not the object of God's wrath on earth; He takes them out of it.

tzcho2 said:

Matthew 11:12: "suffereth violence, and the violent take it by force."
Matthew 13:19: "the wicked one, and catcheth away that which was sown in his heart."
John 6:15: "they would come and take him by force, to make him"
John 10:12: "and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the"
John 10:28: "they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them"
John 10:29: "and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand."
Acts 8:39: "water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch"
Acts 23:10: "the soldiers to go down, and to take him by force from among them,"
2 Corinthians 12:2: "I cannot tell: God knoweth such a one caught up to the third"
2 Corinthians 12:4: "How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words,"
1 Thessalonians 4:17: "we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in"
Jude 1:23: "save with fear, pulling them out of the fire; hating"
Revelation 12:5

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and not xlated "rapture" one single time?
how does that make sense to you? ty

fwiw we pretty much all start there ok, your beliefs will change as you do
Knowledge brings sorrow

farouk said:

The church is not the object of God's wrath on earth; He takes them out of it.

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then I wonder if you would address the logic argument in the post above, he said,
knowing full well what will come of it, but ty.

See, even your English scribes would not go that far, and that was btw a humongous battle, ppl even died trying to get "harpazo" xlated "rapture"

Now don't get me wrong, you guys are fine believing that for now, and it is just a reveal of where you are at right now, too. But at least do yourself a favor and don't write it in stone, ok?

farouk said:

The church is not the object of God's wrath on earth; He takes them out of it.

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Dream on my friend dream on. You really believe that?

He did not take Joseph out of prison for three long years...he suffered.
He often allowed suffering...ask Job...
Ask the Christians who were imprisoned and tortured in all the communist countries in the 50's, 60's ....no rapture for them!! Ask the missionaries that were slaughtered in the Belgium Congo as was...no rapture for them!!
And today...?
etc etc etc...

But, keep your dreams

Isa 43:2-3 "When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and when through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee."

farouk said:

The church is not the object of God's wrath on earth; He takes them out of it.

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Really?
Care to show us where the Bible makes this claim??

In the entire history of mankind - God never pulls His people OUT of danger. They are ALWAYS in the midst of it. Even Noah wasn't pulled away from the danger. Noah and his family were "LEFT BEHIND". The Early Church suffered greatly. they were butchered, crucified, fed alive to animals and set on fire for their faith.
The idea that Christians in the future will have it any easier is wishful thinking. Jesus never said it would be easy to be His followers. In fact, He ALWAYS taught about how difficult it would be:

Matt. 16:24-25
“If anyone would come after me, let him deny himself and take up his cross and follow me. For whoever would save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

John 15:18
“If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first."

1 Thess. 4:15-17 is about what happens at the END. It talks about the Resurrection of the Dead which happens at the END.

Rom. 8:17
". . . and if children, heirs also, heirs of God and fellow heirs with Christ, if indeed we suffer with Him so that we may also be glorified with Him."

1 Pet. 4:16
" . . . but if anyone suffers as a Christian, he is not to be ashamed, but is to glorify God in this name."

YOUR bizarre little "Rapture" fairy tale was invented by John Nelson Darby in 1830.
NONE of your Protestant Fathers ever taught this myth . . .

bbyrd009 said:

not meaning to be mocking at all, just asking why Scripture xlates a diff root "rapture" than you are? I guess a couple diff roots, Chamad, Gil, chemsah, but not harpazo? Hence the "not making logical sense," sorry; to you

Um and you don't think "carry off by force" is maybe a tell, a clue?

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Get saved and you'll know exactly what it means. Liberal christianity doesn't teach what the bible scripture actually teaches.
1 Thess 413But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

bbyrd009 said:

and not xlated "rapture" one single time?
how does that make sense to you? ty

fwiw we pretty much all start there ok, your beliefs will change as you do
Knowledge brings sorrow

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So you add even more lazy, inconsiderate abbreviations? shows the attitude......bye

tzcho2 said:

So you add even more lazy, inconsiderate abbreviations? shows the attitude......bye

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yes, it ends up being a great device actually, seems to drive ppl who give non-answers like your post 48 nuts!

tzcho2 said:

Get saved and you'll know exactly what it means. Liberal christianity doesn't teach what the bible scripture actually teaches.
1 Thess 413But we do not want you to be uninformed, brethren, about those who are asleep, so that you will not grieve as do the rest who have no hope. 14For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so God will bring with Him those who have fallen asleep in Jesus. 15For this we say to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will not precede those who have fallen asleep. 16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. 17Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, and so we shall always be with the Lord. 18Therefore comfort one another with these words.

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No reason you can't meet Christ in the clouds today!