Black preacher arrested after man complains about his preaching

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Soverign Grace

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Get ready for it: Christian persecution is going to get worse for us because America always follows Europe. When I watched this brief video of police arresting this black preacher it made me want to cry. To see this man of God have his arms yanked behind him and put into handcuffs for preaching the Word of God was too much. How could those cops justify arresting this innocent man? All he was doing was preaching on the sidewalk. Evil Sadiq Khan defended the pastor's arrest. We're in a terrible society now - right is wrong and wrong is right.

Freedom of Speech Dead in UK: London’s Muslim Mayor Defends Arrest of Christian Preacher
 
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Soverign Grace

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I suspect he was arrested for something like giving the police a hard time after he was told to cease creating an assembly without a permit..... NOT because he was a Christian.

I watched the video Willie - didn't you see it? He wasn't creating an assembly. I've handed salvation tracts out without a permit. Someone complained about him preaching on the sidewalk; I don't think that's a crime. Why did they even approach him in the first place? Why didn't they tell the complainer that the preacher was within his rights to talk about God on a public sidewalk? It seemed like it was another example of what is happening in the UK. There are multiple knife, vehicle, and acid attacks yet mayor Sadiq Khan has dispatched something like 900 officers to strong-arm anyone who speaks against his faith.

America always follows Europe and I think we're going to see persecution in the coming years.
 

Willie T

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I watched the video Willie - didn't you see it? He wasn't creating an assembly. I've handed salvation tracts out without a permit. Someone complained about him preaching on the sidewalk; I don't think that's a crime. Why did they even approach him in the first place? Why didn't they tell the complainer that the preacher was within his rights to talk about God on a public sidewalk? It seemed like it was another example of what is happening in the UK. There are multiple knife, vehicle, and acid attacks yet mayor Sadiq Khan has dispatched something like 900 officers to strong-arm anyone who speaks against his faith.

America always follows Europe and I think we're going to see persecution in the coming years.
As you admitted, we really don't know what is legal over there, and what is not. Nor do we know what went down between him and the officers. I'm pretty sure that if he had just moved along when they asked him to, nothing further would have happened.

Would it be nice (and maybe, to some, preferable) if any of us could stand on a street corner and holler about anything we wanted to? Maybe. But the world we live in doesn't operate that way.
 

Taken

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Get ready for it: Christian persecution is going to get worse for us because America always follows Europe. When I watched this brief video of police arresting this black preacher it made me want to cry. To see this man of God have his arms yanked behind him and put into handcuffs for preaching the Word of God was too much. How could those cops justify arresting this innocent man? All he was doing was preaching on the sidewalk. Evil Sadiq Khan defended the pastor's arrest. We're in a terrible society now - right is wrong and wrong is right.

Freedom of Speech Dead in UK: London’s Muslim Mayor Defends Arrest of Christian Preacher

Yet another hyped up load of nonsense by a Newspaper Reporter.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Soverign Grace

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As you admitted, we really don't know what is legal over there, and what is not. Nor do we know what went down between him and the officers. I'm pretty sure that if he had just moved along when they asked him to, nothing further would have happened.

Would it be nice (and maybe, to some, preferable) if any of us could stand on a street corner and holler about anything we wanted to? Maybe. But the world we live in doesn't operate that way.

Why should he move and who holds the right to tell him to move? I don't see it that way. If you can't talk about God on a public sidewalk what's it going to be tomorrow? Once rights start being eroded you slide into dangerous territory that is closer to Nazi Germany where everyone is controlled like robots by the government.

I just don't like to see someone who obviously cares about peoples souls harassed because someone complained. What was the motivation for the complainant? That preacher was on a public sidewalk. If someone can be arrested for the "transgression" of talking about God on a public sidewalk when there are unsolved knife, vehicle, and acid attacks, and gangs of immigrants who rape the young girls then that society is in trouble. We should pay attention because America usually always follows the UK. It hits home to me because that's always been my ministry. I have handed out tracts for years. I guess now I have to watch if I hand it to someone of a different religion they can complain to police and have you arrested.
 

Willie T

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Why should he move and who holds the right to tell him to move? I don't see it that way. If you can't talk about God on a public sidewalk what's it going to be tomorrow? Once rights start being eroded you slide into dangerous territory that is closer to Nazi Germany where everyone is controlled like robots by the government.

I just don't like to see someone who obviously cares about peoples souls harassed because someone complained. What was the motivation for the complainant? That preacher was on a public sidewalk. If someone can be arrested for the "transgression" of talking about God on a public sidewalk when there are unsolved knife, vehicle, and acid attacks, and gangs of immigrants who rape the young girls then that society is in trouble. We should pay attention because America usually always follows the UK. It hits home to me because that's always been my ministry. I have handed out tracts for years. I guess now I have to watch if I hand it to someone of a different religion they can complain to police and have you arrested.
No, it would be you who got yourself arrested if you refused to do as a police officer told you to do. We have legal recourse in courts... NOT in refusing the lawful order of an officer.
 

Bobby Jo

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No, it would be you who got yourself arrested if you refused to do as a police officer told you to do. We have legal recourse in courts... NOT in refusing the lawful order of an officer.

Unlawful orders are not LAWFUL.

And Police who use Unlawful orders, lie about the law, and abuse the citizens, ARE ANARCHISTS. And because we have ANARCHY in the government, we WILL have ANARCHY in the streets.


Whoda thunk,
Bobby Jo
 
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Willie T

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Unlawful orders are not LAWFUL.

And Police who use Unlawful orders, lie about the law, and abuse the citizens, ARE ANARCHISTS. And because we have ANARCHY in the government, we WILL have ANARCHY in the streets.


Whoda thunk,
Bobby Jo
So what? We are still required to obey. Our legal recourse comes later if we choose to take it to court.
 
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Stranger

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I can see both sides of this argument. If the law says you cannot stand on a street corner and preach the Gospel, then we as Christians are to obey the powers that be. (Rom. 13:1-3)

But I also see the other side for (Acts 4:17-21) describes the apostles willing to disobey the religious leaders under threat of punishment.

I would say let every man do as he sees God is leading him to do. If you have feelings of guilt of what you do, then don't do it. But if you feel the Lord has given you leave to do this, then by all means go ahead. But know you will suffer the consequences.

The one who decides to go ahead and preach can still be obedient to the powers that be by submitting to the punishment that is given for doing it.

Stranger
 
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Enoch111

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after he was told to cease creating an assembly without a permit
Since when do Christians need the government's or the police's permission to create an assembly in any Western country? This sounds more like Nazi Germany or the USSR than the good old UK (which is nor a total disaster zone). They are appointing Muslims to office left, right, and center, while attacking Christians and political conservatives.
 
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Willie T

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Since when do Christians need the government's or the police's permission to create an assembly in any Western country? This sounds more like Nazi Germany or the USSR than the good old UK (which is nor a total disaster zone). They are appointing Muslims to office left, right, and center, while attacking Christians and political conservatives.
Are you saying that Christians should not have to adhere to the same laws everyone else is required to? We all had the opportunity to help form all of these laws. And now you want special treatment where those laws are concerned?
 
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Bobby Jo

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So what? We are still required to obey. ...

Nope. When the cop stops you on the street just minding your own business and not doing anything wrong, -- and asks you for you I.D., you simply say "no thanks". And when he insists that you provide your I.D., you say "no thanks". And when he threatens you with arrest, you say "no thanks".

Failure to ID ONLY APPLIES when you're suspected of having committed, currently committing , or about to commit a CRIME.

But if you want to be "dog" and sit on the curb where the officer points, then PLEASE FEEL FREE TO BE A DOG. -- But I'm a man.


Bobby Jo
 
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Enoch111

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Are you saying that Christians should not have to adhere to the same laws everyone else is required to? We all had the opportunity to help form all of these laws. And now you want special treatment where those laws are concerned?
Willie,

As long as a Christian assembly does not seek any kind of special tax status, it does not need any interference from the government. That is a part of the freedom of religion.

Christians can meet in homes or public buildings, and do whatever they are called to do. It is only when churches register as charitable (non-profit) organizations for tax exempt purposes that they must involve the government.

But Totalitarian China is different, they force house churches to register and then persecute them. And this is now the trend in the West. Persecute Christians and give Muslims every advantage. That's why Sadiq Khan has established Londonistan with the blessings of the UK government.
 
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Soverign Grace

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I looked to see if there were other incidents and there were:

Evangelist Sues Georgia Gov't After Being Banned From Preaching on Public Sidewalk

Outside an abortion clinic: Pro-Life Activists Sue City After Arrest for Reading Bible Outside Abortion Clinic

Norwegian: https://www.christian-faith.com/norwegian-arrested-for-street-preaching/

Christian preachers in Oregon attacked: Christian preachers on Oregon sidewalk attacked by man with \'police protection\'

Street preacher arrested:

Christian preacher arrested for the 3rd time.

Christian Street Preacher Arrested 3 Times – Thomas More Law Center Files Federal Action


ANN ARBOR, MI – In three separate incidents beginning May 2011, David Allen, a Christian street preacher in Houston, Texas, was arrested, searched, jailed, and repeatedly denied his constitutional rights to free speech and free exercise of religion. He was never convicted on any of the charges. To stop further harassment, the Thomas More Law Center (TMLC) a national public interest law firm based in Ann Arbor, Michigan announced it filed a federal lawsuit late last week on behalf of Allen.

TMLC’s Erin Mersino is lead attorney in the case. She is assisted by Texas attorneys, Joseph R. Gutheinz of Friendship, Texas, and Houston attorney Jerad Wayne Najvar. The City of Houston, its Police Chief, and three Houston Police Officers are named as defendants in the lawsuit. Click here to read full complaint.

Allen’s three arrests occurred while he was preaching the Gospel message against the sins of abortion, homosexuality, and adultery on public sidewalks in Houston, Texas. His preaching included donning a wool prayer shawl called a “Tallit” and sounding a ram’s horn known as a “Shofar”.

Richard Thompson, President and Chief Counsel of the Thomas More Law Center, commented:

“This case is primarily about the right of a Christian preacher, exercising his rights to free speech on the public sidewalks of Houston, to condemn what he believes are sins of our society. The Supreme Court has held that public sidewalks are traditional public forums where speech cannot be restricted based on content. So, as long as Mr. Allen is not violating any constitutionally valid laws, the police cannot arrest him or otherwise interfere with his right to free speech just because they don’t like his message or the way he is expressing it.”

Allen’s first arrest occurred in May 2011 while he was praying on a public sidewalk in front of the local Planned Parenthood facility. Two Houston police officers arrested Allen, handcuffed and placed him in the back of the police squad car for approximately 45-60 minutes in suffocating heat without air conditioning. Allen was removed from the squad car only after a third officer noted that he had been overcome by the heat. Upon his removal, he collapsed to the ground and had to be rushed to a hospital for medical treatment.

The second arrest occurred in October 2011, while Allen was preaching on a Houston street corner. The case was ultimately dismissed by the prosecutor for lack of evidence that a crime had been committed.

In January 2012, Allen’s third arrest occurred while he was preaching on a Houston street. He and another preacher hoped to spread the Gospel to the crowd of spectators gathered for the Houston Marathon. Allen was jailed for most of the day until his wife was able to obtain his release by posting a bond. He was charged with failure to obey a lawful order and possession of a ‘staff’ – referring to his Shofar. The case was dismissed when police failed to appear in court.

TMLC’s lawsuit cites repeated violations of David Allen’s constitutional First Amendment rights to free exercise of religion and free speech by officers of the Houston Police Department. The lawsuit also claims Allen’s arrest and detainment without probable cause or lawful authority violated the Fourth Amendment protection against unlawful search and seizure. TMLC’s lawsuit seeks to stop the Houston Police Department from future constitutional violations and harassment of David Allen as he exercises his right to preach the Gospel on the public sidewalks of the City.

The Thomas More Law Center defends and promotes America’s Judeo-Christian heritage and moral values, including the religious freedom of Christians, time-honored family values, and the sanctity of human life. It supports a strong national defense and an independent and sovereign United States of America. The Law Center accomplishes its mission through litigation, education, and related activities. It does not charge for its services. The Law Center is supported by contributions from individuals, corporations and foundations, and is recognized by the IRS as a section 501(c)(3) organization. You may reach the Thomas More Law Center at (734) 827-2001 or visit our website at www.thomasmore.org.



“As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air – however slight – lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.”

—Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 

Mike Dwight

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I like Willie T's logic on the thread throughout. So many Doctrines are Really, concerned in the Church, about this sort of thing, and the stance of aggressiveness of evangelism vs friendliness with your neighbors and all that goodness.

I want to use Willie T's logic on something else! Lets say I am Identified with topics concerning the Great Pumpkin. An internal group graded conversation that is cultural awareness had its internal e-mails turned in with a lot of influence from the Great Pumpkin to Professors. Now, you're in trouble for Great Pumpkin conversations! T Now, just watch, as , all the Professors, Degrade a Great Pumpkin conversation, in favor of any other conversation. You have to Defend the conversations they Identify me the Student having that conversation. Well anyway, for being a protected group or stance, for a long time, that does nothing at the College level really. They really on this occasion anyway, will say that you are the guy in the first post, they initiate All offenses on the topic and claim pushing religion, and can even deny entry and the reason is "religion". How would a student without contacts or preference "push religion", how would they "harass professors" who gave no heads up for prevention, who initiated anti-Christian messaging as the stance of the class, as one example and you profess, simple topic. They say this is probably very likely that public universities will discriminate the Christian minorities against the law.

I notice most of these are individuals in the express purpose of evangelism or preaching. I don't think I ever made any distractions in my 4 year degree. We should have a legal argument solely about the valid religio-philosophy as it Fits in with the ongoing instruction. See Koreans are Sunday moms, white males never are political troublemakers, the Professors have co-pilot in Jesus.
 
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Soverign Grace

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Unlawful orders are not LAWFUL.

And Police who use Unlawful orders, lie about the law, and abuse the citizens, ARE ANARCHISTS. And because we have ANARCHY in the government, we WILL have ANARCHY in the streets.


Whoda thunk,
Bobby Jo

Too much of that going on today - some police - not all - think and act like they're God. A citizen has the right to stand on the street and talk about God. What they don't have the right to do is break the law - and talking about God is not breaking any law.

It is beliefs such as the authoritarian 'you can't refuse an order of an officer' that has allowed the out of control abuses that we're seeing now with many people representing the law actually breaking it. A young construction worker at my cousin's building was given a ride by an officer of the law and he tried to sexually assault him. Was he to obey the officer of the law?

This is a serious issue because if police are allowed to arrest a citizen for talking about God on the sidewalk then what is next?



“As nightfall does not come at once, neither does oppression. In both instances, there is a twilight when everything remains seemingly unchanged. And it is in such twilight that we all must be most aware of change in the air – however slight – lest we become unwitting victims of the darkness.”

—Supreme Court Justice William O. Douglas
 
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Soverign Grace

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I can see both sides of this argument. If the law says you cannot stand on a street corner and preach the Gospel, then we as Christians are to obey the powers that be. (Rom. 13:1-3)

But I also see the other side for (Acts 4:17-21) describes the apostles willing to disobey the religious leaders under threat of punishment.

I would say let every man do as he sees God is leading him to do. If you have feelings of guilt of what you do, then don't do it. But if you feel the Lord has given you leave to do this, then by all means go ahead. But know you will suffer the consequences.

The one who decides to go ahead and preach can still be obedient to the powers that be by submitting to the punishment that is given for doing it.

Stranger

I'm not aware of any law that says that - are you? I used to hand out tracts and talk to people about God and never once did I give thought to it being against the law - but now of course in our litigious and police state society I'm going to watch what I do. Most people I met were receptive but all it takes is one person who hates believers or for Satan to stir someone up against you.

I don't have any feelings of guilt in evangelizing - we're told to do it - but now I don't think I will. I'll leave tracts around but won't talk to people after reading this. We're going to have to walk around with a law book under our arm.
 

Soverign Grace

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So what? We are still required to obey. Our legal recourse comes later if we choose to take it to court.

Why should someone be permitted to force another person to stop talking about God - it doesn't make sense. I could see if he had a bullhorn, assaulted someone, or was otherwise breaking the law. But if we accept that any person can accuse someone and have them removed from an area that's oppression and America has already slid too much into a police state. That's why the bible held certain laws for dealing with disputes - which many of our laws are derived from. One person's word agains another is not sufficient. One man complaining about something you do isn't sufficient by biblical standards.

One witness shall not rise up against a man for any iniquity, or for any sin, in any sin that he sinneth: at the mouth of two witnesses, or at the mouth of three witnesses, shall the matter be established. - Deut. l9:15
 

Mike Dwight

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You could remain in that place with different conduct or purpose? I don't agree with any of these cookie cutter problems as relevant. They use to arrest street vagrancy. "automatic acceptance" number criteria unautomated because 'I push religion', no numbers or skills to improve, go home, they probably closed university, street blocks and more to my access as well as online on No valid events including their mental health appointments, interrogation appointments, and any back-and-forth colorings of their mess as well. You should watch out being Identified then and having a job prospect.