Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

Dave L said:

I furnished scriptural proof the kingdom is spiritual only. Let's see your physical kingdom proof.

Click to expand...

Negative claims are not proof.

Dave L said:

Find one passage in Jesus' words that depict a physical kingdom. Are you born again? Jesus says only the born again can see the kingdom.

Click to expand...

More negative proof demands.

Dave L said:

Why not give us positive proof of a physical kingdom? Direct quotes only.

Click to expand...

Where are your positive proofs of a millennialism?

Dave L said:

Those were positives proofs for a spiritual kingdom.

Click to expand...

No.

All they show is there spiritual realities as well as physical.

Dave L said:

Why not give us positive proof of a physical kingdom? Direct quotes only.

Click to expand...

And would you believe those quotes or simply dismiss them or spiritualize them? Be honest if you want honest answers. I could give you reams of quotes for a real, physical and spiritual Kingdom, but you will simply dismiss them (as you have done in the past).

Dave L said:

Paul was speaking to biblical Jews at the time. Those circumcised before Calvary. When that generation died off, nothing remained to make anyone a physical biblical Jew. They had only the name and customs. In fact, they were the surviving pharisees.

Click to expand...

I know what Paul said. I was referring to your beliefs about Jews and Israel and your contradicting yourself. Either there are Jews & the nation of Israel or YOU think You are the Jews and Israel.

ScottA said:

To speculate when the so called "rapture" takes place, one might just as well ask or guess, "What time is it?"

The problem is...the very nature of such a question or speculation, is ungodly. God doesn't exist within the hands of time, He simply is ("I am").

Thus, the entire question or speculation, becomes a matter of men and there toil to understand God by looking where He cannot be found. How foolish is the one who feels the warmth on his back and ask, "I don't see it before me. Where is the sun? Surely it will pop up here, or perhaps there."

Click to expand...

Matthew 16:2-3
[2] He answered and said unto them, When it is evening, ye say, It will be fair weather: for the sky is red. [3] And in the morning, It will be foul weather to day: for the sky is red and lowring. O ye hypocrites, ye can discern the face of the sky; but can ye not discern the signs of the times?

You hypocrites, you can discern the face of the sky but you can not discern the signs of the times?

Luke 19:43-46
[43] For the days shall come upon thee, that thine enemies shall cast a trench about thee, and compass thee round, and keep thee in on every side, [44] And shall lay thee even with the ground, and thy children within thee; and they shall not leave in thee one stone upon another; because thou knewest not the time of thy visitation. [45] And he went into the temple, and began to cast out them that sold therein, and them that bought; [46] Saying unto them, It is written, My house is the house of prayer: but ye have made it a den of thieves.

Because You knew not the time of your visitation. —they will leave in you not one stone upon another.

Luke 1:78
[78] Through the tender mercy of our God; whereby the dayspring from on high hath visited us,

n2thelight said:

Why would we need the seal of God if we not gonna be here?

Revelation 7:3 "Saying, Hurt not the earth, neither the sea, nor the trees, till we have sealed the servants of our God in their foreheads."

The sealing is that of the Elect,which is before satan and his angels arrive on this earth

Why would we need the gospel armour if we not gonna be here?

Ephesians 6:13 "Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God that ye may be able to with stand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand."

What evil day?It's the day satan !!

Click to expand...

The answer is that a different group of believers is being spoken of in Revelation 7:3. Messianic Jews are at the center of the events of the Book of Revelation--that is why you never hear of the "Church" after chapter 3. "She" comes down as a Bride in the New Jerusalem in chapter 21 but still not referred to as the "Church". The symbolism is obvious in chapter 21, but "She" is still not referred to as the "Church" because the New Jerusalem will contain the souls of not only the Church but also un-churched Gentiles and believing Jews, saved and martyred during the Tribulation. All will be simply, the people of God in the Eternal State. The true Church today (minus the sin nature that plagues all of mortal life), is a picture of the Eternal State. That will be a wonderful time.

Rather than being lifted up and away as the Church will be (Enoch, Elijah and, finally, Jesus Himself are types of the Church being lifted up and away). We are "citizens of heaven"--the Church has the exclusive right to that title, even while here on the earth--it is never used as a definition of any other people group. Israel, when faithful and obedient to Yahweh was always been kept through any tribulation (trouble)--even if only a remnant is left at the end of the trouble.

In the Bible there are three distinct groups. Those are Israel, church and not church or Israel. The only thing they have in common is they are saved by Christ.

The woman is Israel, not church. The 144,000 are 12,000 from each tribe of Israel. But the woman is not limited to 144.000.

God puts his seal on the 144,000 and then the woman, does not say 144,000, flees to Petra where they are protected for 3 1/2 years.

The 144,000 appear with Christ at his second coming. It does not say the woman.

The church/bride has just come out of the wedding chamber and then descends with Christ from heaven at the second coming along with a host of angels.

The army of angels will slaughter the armies of the AC. Then Israel will hunt down those with the Mark of the beast and killed them.

You have to keep your groups straight. Those being angels, bride, 144,000 and nation of Israel.

The nation of Israel will not be saved until they see Christ at the second coming. Then they will be gathered from the world, divided back into their tribes and the new covenant to the houses of Israel and Judah will be in effect.

Dave L said:

There is not one single mention in NT scripture of a Millennium, or of physical kingdom of the future.

Click to expand...

1,000 years is a millennium.

Dave L said:

How so?

Click to expand...

You were supposed to be proving your claims, not me.

You said try you and I am.

Dave L said:

Note the 1000 years are not the kingdom. Satan attacks the kingdom when they end and he is loosed.

Click to expand...

Then according to you, the 1000 years are taking place at this very moment.

Dave L said:

So in essence, Revelation 20 is a panorama of the entire New Covenant era. Not a physical kingdom of the future.

Click to expand...

Would Revelation 21 then not be in the panorama in your view? Are you in the new heaven and new earth right now?

friend of said:

Then according to you, the 1000 years are taking place at this very moment.



Would Revelation 21 then not be in the panorama in your view? Are you in the new heaven and new earth right now?

Click to expand...

He is dodging. Amillennialist believe we are in the MK now, but the rule is from heaven.

Dave L said:

Believers in Christ = Israel. Unbelievers = Satan worshipers in effect.

Click to expand...

So do you think you are Israel and you are a Jew?