Resurrection
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Naomi25
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I think you're going to need to flesh out (pardon the pun) your thoughts a bit more before any real comments can be made. I doubt anyone would object to the idea that our flesh, once dead, goes back to dust, as we see that happening biologically.
I suppose the real question would be; what does the bible say will happen at the time of the resurrection. Does it involve the flesh or not? Will there be a continuity between this, our old flesh, and the new one? That sort of thing.
So...I think before I make any comment on what I believe the bible teaches, I will wait to see where it is you are going.
I suppose the real question would be; what does the bible say will happen at the time of the resurrection. Does it involve the flesh or not? Will there be a continuity between this, our old flesh, and the new one? That sort of thing.
So...I think before I make any comment on what I believe the bible teaches, I will wait to see where it is you are going.
Helen
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Very good thoughts and questions...
I just posted this couple of lines so I get ALERTS on this thread.
Looking forward to it!
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Okay I'm back,now trying to figure out where to start,well what better place than Ecclesiastes
Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."
When that silver cord parts, and the heavenly Father allows it to happen, and this flesh body becomes biologically dead, the very inner man departs from this physical body, and returns to the Father. This decaying body will never be used again, ever. For the soul has entered into its new incorruptible body.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."
The dust is of the earth as scripture clearly shows,meaning our FLESH is dust..... And to quote one of my favorite songs(dust in the wind)
I know for a fact that Christ was risen from the dead,so please as I continue don't accuse me of not believing this fact....
I'm going to do this slow,so I'm gonna stop here for now,however will stop with a question.
What kind of body did Christ have before He was born of woman?
Ecclesiastes 12:6 "Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern."
When that silver cord parts, and the heavenly Father allows it to happen, and this flesh body becomes biologically dead, the very inner man departs from this physical body, and returns to the Father. This decaying body will never be used again, ever. For the soul has entered into its new incorruptible body.
Ecclesiastes 12:7 "Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God Who gave it."
The dust is of the earth as scripture clearly shows,meaning our FLESH is dust..... And to quote one of my favorite songs(dust in the wind)
I know for a fact that Christ was risen from the dead,so please as I continue don't accuse me of not believing this fact....
I'm going to do this slow,so I'm gonna stop here for now,however will stop with a question.
What kind of body did Christ have before He was born of woman?
Waiting on him
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Job 19:25-27 KJV
[25] For I know that my redeemer liveth, and that he shall stand at the latter day upon the earth: [26] And though after my skin worms destroy this body , yet in my flesh shall I see God: [27] Whom I shall see for myself, and mine eyes shall behold, and not another; though my reins be consumed within me.
Tecarta Bible
God is Spirit....Jesus is part of God....so also Spirit. But Jesus would also come among us by taking bodily form from time to time...like the case of Melchizedek.
That's a thought.
101G
Well-Known Member
Addressing the OP only. Luke 24:39 "Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have".
1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1 Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1 Corinthians 15:41 "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1 Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:47 "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:48 "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:49 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
PICJAG.
1 Corinthians 15:35 "But some man will say, How are the dead raised up? and with what body do they come?
1 Corinthians 15:36 "Thou fool, that which thou sowest is not quickened, except it die:
1 Corinthians 15:37 "And that which thou sowest, thou sowest not that body that shall be, but bare grain, it may chance of wheat, or of some other grain:
1 Corinthians 15:38 "But God giveth it a body as it hath pleased him, and to every seed his own body.
1 Corinthians 15:39 "All flesh is not the same flesh: but there is one kind of flesh of men, another flesh of beasts, another of fishes, and another of birds.
1 Corinthians 15:40 "There are also celestial bodies, and bodies terrestrial: but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another.
1 Corinthians 15:41 "There is one glory of the sun, and another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars: for one star differeth from another star in glory.
1 Corinthians 15:42 "So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; it is raised in incorruption:
1 Corinthians 15:43 "It is sown in dishonour; it is raised in glory: it is sown in weakness; it is raised in power:
1 Corinthians 15:44 "It is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.
1 Corinthians 15:45 "And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
1 Corinthians 15:46 "Howbeit that was not first which is spiritual, but that which is natural; and afterward that which is spiritual.
1 Corinthians 15:47 "The first man is of the earth, earthy: the second man is the Lord from heaven.
1 Corinthians 15:48 "As is the earthy, such are they also that are earthy: and as is the heavenly, such are they also that are heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:49 "And as we have borne the image of the earthy, we shall also bear the image of the heavenly.
1 Corinthians 15:50 "Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption.
1 Corinthians 15:51 "Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
PICJAG.
Peculiar choice of word... perhaps you are making an association with a certain valley (Ezekiel 37:1-14)?
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VictoryinJesus
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Often wondered about all the times He was seen in the OT. Was He flesh and is His taking the form of flesh in the OT a contradiction to John 1:14
[14] And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Hebrews 10:5
[5] Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:
Was He made flesh (in a bodily form)more than once? Hebrews 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
Bible_Gazer
Active Member
Did any angels take on flesh appearances when they visited ?
They seem to appear differently in different place in the bible.
I do believe that God has a form as well as Jesus did and does now.
So does Jesus have flesh and bone or flesh, bone and blood now ? Is he Angelic form ?
They seem to appear differently in different place in the bible.
I do believe that God has a form as well as Jesus did and does now.
So does Jesus have flesh and bone or flesh, bone and blood now ? Is he Angelic form ?
VictoryinJesus
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Much discussion on does He have flesh ...are those who are His not His flesh? Does He have a form...what form...what body? Are His not to be His form and body? The body is the temple ...His form seen of the world yet they know them not? Ephesians 5:30 For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones.
Much discussion on form...2 Corinthians 3:17-18 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is , there is liberty. [18] But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
What form is He in? A body. Ephesians 5:31-32 For this cause shall a man leave his father and mother, and shall be joined unto his wife, and they two shall be one flesh. [32] This is a great mystery: but I speak concerning Christ and the church.
Helen
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THANK YOU ! I did not notice my mistake ...I was doing it in the middle of the night , on my iPad...so did not catch my blip!!!
From the Westminster Confession;
II. At the last day, such as are found alive shall not die, but be changed: and all the dead shall be raised up, with the selfsame bodies, and none other (although with different qualities), which shall be united again to their souls forever.
III. The bodies of the unjust shall, by the power of Christ, be raised to dishonor: the bodies of the just, by His Spirit, unto honor; and be made conformable to His own glorious body.
Westminster Assembly. Westminster Confession.
Anticipated the thoughts before starting my OP
So now I shall continue .When one says God and Christ are spirit what do you mean?Are you saying God is like the wind? In other words no substance I ended my last post with ,what body did Christ have?
So,my question to that is ,do you think Christ is like the wind?
For that I will quote Mosses ,when he asked to see God,this will,or should explain why God has a body
Exodus 33:19 "And He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
Exodus 33:20 "And He said, "Thou canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live."
From the above we know God has a face.So we know He's not as just the wind that one cannot see
And to bring this point forward,let's continue
Exodus 33:21 "And the Lord said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:"
Moses is about to get a peek into that other dimension of God heaven.
Exodus 33:22 "And it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand while I pass by:"
So what Rock is this that God will cover or hid Moses in? That Rock that we stand on is Jesus the Christ, that came in the flesh, died on the cross, and was in the tomb for three days. He came out of the tomb and ascended on the fortieth day into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. If you are in Christ, you are standing on that Rock even to this day, in these end times. That Rock is Jesus Christ. It is on Jesus Christ, the church of God is built, and that Rock and church will withstand any weather that comes against it. Jesus Christ is our foundation to happiness, and to eternal life. If you are standing on the Rock, then you must make a stand for the Rock. Are you standing on that Rock.
Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away Mine hand, and thou shalt see My back parts: but My face shall not be seen."
Does a spirit have a back part or a face for that matter.
I can do a study on being born again,just not here and now,yet to make my point ,one must be born from above,to which being born again actually means
In other words Christ was born from above,just like we were.
So now I shall continue .When one says God and Christ are spirit what do you mean?Are you saying God is like the wind? In other words no substance I ended my last post with ,what body did Christ have?
So,my question to that is ,do you think Christ is like the wind?
For that I will quote Mosses ,when he asked to see God,this will,or should explain why God has a body
Exodus 33:19 "And He said, "I will make all My goodness pass before thee, and I will proclaim the name of the Lord before thee; and will be gracious to whom I will be gracious, and will shew mercy on whom I will shew mercy."
Exodus 33:20 "And He said, "Thou canst not see My face: for there shall no man see Me, and live."
From the above we know God has a face.So we know He's not as just the wind that one cannot see
And to bring this point forward,let's continue
Exodus 33:21 "And the Lord said, "Behold, there is a place by Me, and thou shalt stand upon a rock:"
Moses is about to get a peek into that other dimension of God heaven.
Exodus 33:22 "And it shall come to pass, while My glory passeth by, that I will put thee in a clift of the rock, and will cover thee with My hand while I pass by:"
So what Rock is this that God will cover or hid Moses in? That Rock that we stand on is Jesus the Christ, that came in the flesh, died on the cross, and was in the tomb for three days. He came out of the tomb and ascended on the fortieth day into heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father. If you are in Christ, you are standing on that Rock even to this day, in these end times. That Rock is Jesus Christ. It is on Jesus Christ, the church of God is built, and that Rock and church will withstand any weather that comes against it. Jesus Christ is our foundation to happiness, and to eternal life. If you are standing on the Rock, then you must make a stand for the Rock. Are you standing on that Rock.
Exodus 33:23 "And I will take away Mine hand, and thou shalt see My back parts: but My face shall not be seen."
Does a spirit have a back part or a face for that matter.
I can do a study on being born again,just not here and now,yet to make my point ,one must be born from above,to which being born again actually means
In other words Christ was born from above,just like we were.
Now back to the OP
We Rise Soon after Death
Jesus tells of a poor man Lazarus and his rich neighbor who both died. The rich man ended up in hell, while Lazarus went up to heaven. (Luke 16: 22-24) Both of them came into the next life immediately after death. There was no hint here of a long wait to come back into their bodies, for the rich man's brothers were still alive on earth.
When Jesus was on the cross He promised one of the thieves, "Today you will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). Jesus did not say, "Just wait twenty centuries or more, and I will fix up your body again."
Since we rise immediately after death, people who have died are in the spiritual world, and they can be seen by those whose spiritual sight is open. For example, when Peter, James and John had their eyes opened to see Jesus in His glory, they also saw Moses and Elijah, who were clearly not in their graves. When Saul went to the witch of En Dor, he spoke with the spirit of Samuel who appeared as an old man (1 Samuel 28: 3-19), and Lazarus found himself in the bosom of Abraham in heaven (Luke 16:22-24). In fact, when Jesus said to the Sadducees that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of the living, not the dead, the clear implication is that Abramam, Isaac and Jacob had already risen from death into life (Matthew 22:31-32; Mark 12:26-27; Luke 20:37-38). He is "the God of the Living," not "the God of the dead who will centuries later come back to life."
Angels have sometimes appeared to people whose eyes were opened to see them. Very often, the Bible says that these angels are people. For example, we read that three men appeared to Abraham (Genesis 18: 2), and that when Jacob wrestled with an angel he wrestled with a man (Genesis 32: 24). Likewise, the angels were people who appeared to Joshua (Joshua 5: 13-14), Manoah and his wife (Judges 13: 6-11), Ezekiel (Ezekiel 9: 2-3,11; 10: 2-3,6), Daniel (Daniel 9: 21; 10: 5; 12: 6-7), Zechariah (Zechariah 1:8,11), and the women at the sepulcher (Mark 16: 5; Luke 24: 4). The Bible says these angels were people, and clearly none of them were still in the grave.
We Rise Soon after Death
Jesus tells of a poor man Lazarus and his rich neighbor who both died. The rich man ended up in hell, while Lazarus went up to heaven. (Luke 16: 22-24) Both of them came into the next life immediately after death. There was no hint here of a long wait to come back into their bodies, for the rich man's brothers were still alive on earth.
When Jesus was on the cross He promised one of the thieves, "Today you will be with Me in paradise" (Luke 23:43). Jesus did not say, "Just wait twenty centuries or more, and I will fix up your body again."
Since we rise immediately after death, people who have died are in the spiritual world, and they can be seen by those whose spiritual sight is open. For example, when Peter, James and John had their eyes opened to see Jesus in His glory, they also saw Moses and Elijah, who were clearly not in their graves. When Saul went to the witch of En Dor, he spoke with the spirit of Samuel who appeared as an old man (1 Samuel 28: 3-19), and Lazarus found himself in the bosom of Abraham in heaven (Luke 16:22-24). In fact, when Jesus said to the Sadducees that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is the God of the living, not the dead, the clear implication is that Abramam, Isaac and Jacob had already risen from death into life (Matthew 22:31-32; Mark 12:26-27; Luke 20:37-38). He is "the God of the Living," not "the God of the dead who will centuries later come back to life."
Angels have sometimes appeared to people whose eyes were opened to see them. Very often, the Bible says that these angels are people. For example, we read that three men appeared to Abraham (Genesis 18: 2), and that when Jacob wrestled with an angel he wrestled with a man (Genesis 32: 24). Likewise, the angels were people who appeared to Joshua (Joshua 5: 13-14), Manoah and his wife (Judges 13: 6-11), Ezekiel (Ezekiel 9: 2-3,11; 10: 2-3,6), Daniel (Daniel 9: 21; 10: 5; 12: 6-7), Zechariah (Zechariah 1:8,11), and the women at the sepulcher (Mark 16: 5; Luke 24: 4). The Bible says these angels were people, and clearly none of them were still in the grave.
There Is a Spiritual Body
The Bible teaches that we rise with a different body than the one that is placed in the grave. "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15: 44). The natural body is what is "sown" in the grave, and the spiritual body is what is raised up (1 Corinthians 15: 37, 42-44). People on earth have an earthly body, while people in heaven have a spiritual, heavenly body (1 Corinthians 15: 46-49). The fact that people in the spiritual world have a spiritual body is evident from the appearance of angels mentioned above. For example, Saul recognized Samuel after his death because he had a body similar to the body he had on earth. Clearly it was Samuel's spiritual body, since his physical body was still in grave, and it was his spirit (1 Samuel 28:13) that had risen and was conversing with Saul.
The fact that there is a spiritual body is also clear from the story of Lazarus and the rich man. After death Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham; the rich man lifted his eyes, and asked that Lazarus might dip his finger in water to cool his tongue (Luke 16: 22-24).
The body we have in the spiritual world is not the body that we put into the grave. The Bible says that our physical body is corruptible and mortal, which means that it does not last, but rots and dies. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Corinthians 15: 50). "We brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out" (1 Timothy 6:7). When we go to our eternal home "then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:5, 7; compare Genesis 3:19). So our earthly body cannot go to heaven, but when we put off our physical body, our corruptible and mortal life is changed into an incorruptible and immortal life (1 Corinthians 15: 53-54). Evidently when Paul said this, some people were wondering if everyone would sleep a long time in the grave before the resurrection, for Paul reassures people that we will not all sleep, and that it will not take ages but will happen immediately, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, that is, when we die.
The Bible teaches that we rise with a different body than the one that is placed in the grave. "There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body" (1 Corinthians 15: 44). The natural body is what is "sown" in the grave, and the spiritual body is what is raised up (1 Corinthians 15: 37, 42-44). People on earth have an earthly body, while people in heaven have a spiritual, heavenly body (1 Corinthians 15: 46-49). The fact that people in the spiritual world have a spiritual body is evident from the appearance of angels mentioned above. For example, Saul recognized Samuel after his death because he had a body similar to the body he had on earth. Clearly it was Samuel's spiritual body, since his physical body was still in grave, and it was his spirit (1 Samuel 28:13) that had risen and was conversing with Saul.
The fact that there is a spiritual body is also clear from the story of Lazarus and the rich man. After death Lazarus was in the bosom of Abraham; the rich man lifted his eyes, and asked that Lazarus might dip his finger in water to cool his tongue (Luke 16: 22-24).
The body we have in the spiritual world is not the body that we put into the grave. The Bible says that our physical body is corruptible and mortal, which means that it does not last, but rots and dies. "Flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither does corruption inherit incorruption" (1 Corinthians 15: 50). "We brought nothing into this world, and it is certain we can carry nothing out" (1 Timothy 6:7). When we go to our eternal home "then the dust will return to the earth as it was, and the spirit will return to God who gave it" (Ecclesiastes 12:5, 7; compare Genesis 3:19). So our earthly body cannot go to heaven, but when we put off our physical body, our corruptible and mortal life is changed into an incorruptible and immortal life (1 Corinthians 15: 53-54). Evidently when Paul said this, some people were wondering if everyone would sleep a long time in the grave before the resurrection, for Paul reassures people that we will not all sleep, and that it will not take ages but will happen immediately, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet, that is, when we die.
ScottA
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If one cannot reconcile BOTH of these verses...there is no point to be made. To claim only one of them as fact, is not a statement of fact, but an admitted lack of knowledge.
There is an answer...but pointing to would-be contradictions from God, as if that were even possible...is not a good place to begin.
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Davy
Well-Known Member
Pretty deep subject. I know not many are ready for it.
When Apostle Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, that's just what he meant. It is THIS PRESENT WORLD that was designed to be a fleshy manifestation, not the world to come.
Gen 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
KJV
Why can't folks understand that the idea of that image of "man" originally had nothing... to do with the idea of flesh?
Man is God's Own Image Likeness. It is an outward image in the Heavenly, a shape, an appearance, an outward likeness. It is a BODY. But not a flesh body, but a spirit body. The name Gabriel (one of God's Archangels) means 'man of God' from the Hebrew. The two angels Jesus sent to Lot were seen by the sodomites as young men, and told Lot to bring them out so they could 'know' them (in the Biblical sense). Those two angels ate Lot's food, and rested in Lot's house. They also ate what Abraham prepared for them and Jesus prior to that in Gen.18. Abraham saw those two angels and Jesus as "three men" when he looked up from his tent door and saw them standing there.
Our Lord Jesus never put on a flesh body to appear on earth back in old covenant times. He has the Image of Man, as Hebrews tells us He is the express Image of The Father (Hebrews 1).
Thus the image of 'man' began in Heaven, not with flesh on earth during this present world.
When Apostle Paul said flesh and blood cannot inherit the Kingdom of God, that's just what he meant. It is THIS PRESENT WORLD that was designed to be a fleshy manifestation, not the world to come.
Gen 1:26
26 And God said, Let us make man in Our image, after Our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
KJV
Why can't folks understand that the idea of that image of "man" originally had nothing... to do with the idea of flesh?
Man is God's Own Image Likeness. It is an outward image in the Heavenly, a shape, an appearance, an outward likeness. It is a BODY. But not a flesh body, but a spirit body. The name Gabriel (one of God's Archangels) means 'man of God' from the Hebrew. The two angels Jesus sent to Lot were seen by the sodomites as young men, and told Lot to bring them out so they could 'know' them (in the Biblical sense). Those two angels ate Lot's food, and rested in Lot's house. They also ate what Abraham prepared for them and Jesus prior to that in Gen.18. Abraham saw those two angels and Jesus as "three men" when he looked up from his tent door and saw them standing there.
Our Lord Jesus never put on a flesh body to appear on earth back in old covenant times. He has the Image of Man, as Hebrews tells us He is the express Image of The Father (Hebrews 1).
Thus the image of 'man' began in Heaven, not with flesh on earth during this present world.
Bible_Gazer
Active Member
So when a person dies, when the person leave the flesh body he now a spirit body walking around ??
Another word we are a spirit body inside a flesh body ?
Or is it that when a person leaving the flesh body, he will receive a spirit body ?? that would be counted a blessing ??
So an unsaved person will not receive a spirit body when they die ??
Another word we are a spirit body inside a flesh body ?
Or is it that when a person leaving the flesh body, he will receive a spirit body ?? that would be counted a blessing ??
So an unsaved person will not receive a spirit body when they die ??
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