Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

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Enoch111

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So what about all the persecuters prior to this age? Makes no sense. Why this one generation? What makes them a focal point?
Do you recall the events preceding Noah's Flood? Sin, evil, and outright wickedness kept increasing daily until a point was reach when divine judgment, retribution, and wrath had to be poured out. God is longsuffering, and He gave Noah's generation 120 years to repent.

But He has given the inhabitants of this world OVER 2,000 YEARS to repent and be converted (since the resurrection of Christ). Today there is not a person who has not heard about Jesus Christ or Christianity, and Christians are persecuted worldwide.

The culmination of wickedness and blasphemy will occur when the Great Apostasy within Christendom has reached its peak, and the Antichrist takes control, to tell the world that he is God and Christ and must be worshiped as God (along with His image, the Abomination of Desolation). This totally unacceptable blasphemy will trigger the Great Tribulation (the 7th seal judgments, 7 vials of God's wrath).
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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Hi Barney, the only thing about this whole rapture thing that’s never made any sense at all is everyone always stating Great tribulation is Got taking vengeance on his enemies( as you stated those who persecute). Ok this in my opinion narrows Gods vengeance to a generation of men women children as understood, over the course of maybe 3-7 years. So what about all the persecuters prior to this age? Makes no sense. Why this one generation? What makes them a focal point?

It had to happen in some generation or another. In the case of other persecutors of God's people, they are even now imprisoned in the place of punishment. They did not escape. The Great Tribulation, Millennial Kingdom and Final Judgment are the wrap-up of history--they are all included in the ancient teaching about the Day of the Lord.

Interestingly, from the world of genetics, it seems clear that sand has always been draining out in Creation's hourglass, since the Fall. Consider God's pronouncement of judgment on Adam and Eve (and thus, to all of us mortals under the curse of death). The Hebrew of that judgment actually reads, "Dying you will die." All world-class geneticists understand that mutations are building up in the human genome (in fact, the genomes of everything that is alive). And the problem is accelerating because of the very toxic world in which we live. From studying other extinct species, it has been estimated that a 3% mutational rate will set a species on a path to extinction and it is estimated that the human genome is not far below that figure.

Over half of all plant species which ever lived, are now extinct. Animals have fared slightly better at only about 40%. Some geneticists hope that gene editing will save the day but there are others who know that the promise of gene editing is falling flat. Plant geneticist, Dr. John Sanford, interviewed a number of population geneticists and tells why gene editing will be a dead end in his book, Genetic Entropy. He says that they all know about the problem of genetic entropy but would rather not talk about it. When asked recently about the point at which the human race will head into extinction, Sanford said, "Well, let's put it this way, I wouldn't make any plans beyond the end of the century."

Sanford is an interesting scientist. He is independently wealthy from his invention of the "gene gun" and is thus free to discuss any topic he feels like discussing--without fear of repercussions to any research funding, etc. He began his studies as an atheist and then as he got further into his studies, he made the determination for himself that the incredibly complex design of life absolutely implied a Designer. He then became a deist. Eventually, he became a Christian.
 
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Lady Crosstalk

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I gave thee a king in mine anger, and took him away in my wrath. (Hosea 13:11)

Neither Israel nor Saul knew when they had a good thing going.

True--but God was very reluctant to agree to the Israelites having a King in the first place. He warned them what a King would do to them.
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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Hi Barney, the only thing about this whole rapture thing that’s never made any sense at all is everyone always stating Great tribulation is Got taking vengeance on his enemies( as you stated those who persecute). Ok this in my opinion narrows Gods vengeance to a generation of men women children as understood, over the course of maybe 3-7 years. So what about all the persecuters prior to this age? Makes no sense. Why this one generation? What makes them a focal point?

This generation of people that are living who are not The True God servants, who are not Jesus Christ followers they are simply people living at a time when The True God through his Son will be destroying the wicked world that they are living in, this destruction starts with the great tribulation.

How will the great tribulation begin? The book of Revelation answers by describing the destruction of “Babylon the Great.” (Rev. 17:5-7) How appropriate that all false religion is likened to a prostitute! This destruction of all false religion starts a great tribulation. The clergy have prostituted themselves with the leaders of this wicked world. Instead of loyally supporting Jesus and his Kingdom, they have given their support to human rulers and have compromised godly principles just to gain political influence. They stand in stark contrast with the clean, virginlike anointed ones of God. (2 Cor. 11:2; Jas. 1:27;Rev. 14:4) But who will destroy the harlotlike organization? Jehovah God will put “his thought” into the hearts of “the ten horns” of the “scarlet-colored wild beast.” These horns represent all the present political powers that give support to the United Nations, an organization pictured by the “scarlet-colored wild beast.”—Read Revelation 17:3, 16-18.
 

friend of

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I would say that the part where it says "he sends out his angels with a loud trumpet call and they gather his elect" would be the Rapture.
And yeah...after the 'tribulation'...this would take place...which would mean it doesn't take place before it...

The pretrib answer to this is that those elect are they that converted to Christianity after the rapture. The remaining ones who realize the truth of Christ.
 
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BARNEY BRIGHT

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I think that if you will read the Revelation chapter 7 passage carefully, you will see that the people you are speaking of are in heaven and they did NOT survive the great tribulation.


In his vision John did not see this “great crowd” as being in heaven. Their “standing before the throne” (Greek: e·noʹpi·on tou throʹnou, “in sight of the throne”) of God does not require that they be in heaven. Their position is simply “in sight” of God, who tells us that from heaven he beholds the sons of men. (Rev. 7:9; Ps. 11:4; compare Psalm 100:1, 2, also Luke 1:74, 75 and Acts 10:33, Kingdom Interlinear.) Likewise, it is not necessary for “all the nations” to be in heaven for them to be before the throne of Christ (literally, “in front of him”), as described at Matthew 25:31, 32. The fact that the “great crowd, which no man was able to number,” is not a heavenly class is shown by comparison with Revelation 7:4-8 andRe 14:1-4, where the specific number of those taken from the earth to be in heaven is revealed.
 

farouk

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Hi Barney, the only thing about this whole rapture thing that’s never made any sense at all is everyone always stating Great tribulation is Got taking vengeance on his enemies( as you stated those who persecute). Ok this in my opinion narrows Gods vengeance to a generation of men women children as understood, over the course of maybe 3-7 years. So what about all the persecuters prior to this age? Makes no sense. Why this one generation? What makes them a focal point?
Look at it this way: the course of human history culminates in the fact that wrath on earth is coming, but the church - not the object of God's wrath - is taken out of the world. Matthew 24 seems to speak of a unique, future event on earth.
 

Waiting on him

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This generation of people that are living who are not The True God servants, who are not Jesus Christ followers they are simply people living at a time when The True God through his Son will be destroying the wicked world that they are living in, this destruction starts with the great tribulation.

How will the great tribulation begin? The book of Revelation answers by describing the destruction of “Babylon the Great.” (Rev. 17:5-7) How appropriate that all false religion is likened to a prostitute! This destruction of all false religion starts a great tribulation. The clergy have prostituted themselves with the leaders of this wicked world. Instead of loyally supporting Jesus and his Kingdom, they have given their support to human rulers and have compromised godly principles just to gain political influence. They stand in stark contrast with the clean, virginlike anointed ones of God. (2 Cor. 11:2; Jas. 1:27;Rev. 14:4) But who will destroy the harlotlike organization? Jehovah God will put “his thought” into the hearts of “the ten horns” of the “scarlet-colored wild beast.” These horns represent all the present political powers that give support to the United Nations, an organization pictured by the “scarlet-colored wild beast.”—Read Revelation 17:3, 16-18.
What your saying about corruption has been going on for thousands of years. So this supposed last generation at on moment in Time is going to receive the wrath of God for all the sin countless generations have committed.

That sounds like what Christ did?
 

Waiting on him

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It had to happen in some generation or another. In the case of other persecutors of God's people, they are even now imprisoned in the place of punishment. They did not escape. The Great Tribulation, Millennial Kingdom and Final Judgment are the wrap-up of history--they are all included in the ancient teaching about the Day of the Lord.

Interestingly, from the world of genetics, it seems clear that sand has always been draining out in Creation's hourglass, since the Fall. Consider God's pronouncement of judgment of Adam and Eve (and thus, to all of us mortals under the curse of death). The Hebrew of that judgment actually reads, "Dying you will die." All world-class geneticists understand that mutations are building up in the human genome (in fact, the genomes of everything that is alive). And the problem is accelerating because of the very toxic world in which we live. From studying other extinct species, it has been estimated that a 3% mutational rate will set a species on a path to extinction and it is estimated that the human genome is not far below that figure.

Over half of all plant species which ever lived, are now extinct. Animals have fared slightly better at only about 40%. Some geneticists hope that gene editing will save the day but there are others who know that the promise of gene editing is falling flat. Plant geneticist, Dr. John Sanford, interviewed a number of population geneticists and tells why gene editing will be a dead end in his book, Genetic Entropy. He says that they all know about the problem of genetic entropy but would rather not talk about it. When asked recently about the point at which the human race will head into extinction, Sanford said, "Well, let's put it this way, I wouldn't make any plans beyond the end of the century."

Sanford is an interesting scientist. He is independently wealthy from his invention of the "gene gun" and is thus free to discuss any topic he feels like discussing--without fear of repercussions to any research funding, etc. He began his studies as an atheist and then as he got further into his studies, he made the determination for himself that the incredibly complex design of life absolutely implied a Designer. He then became a deist. Eventually, he became a Christian.
I’ll say it again Christ has overcome death.
 

Waiting on him

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Look at it this way: the course of human history culminates in the fact that wrath on earth is coming, but the church - not the object of God's wrath - is taken out of the world. Matthew 24 seems to speak of a unique, future event on earth.
16 then let them that are in Judaea flee unto the mountains:
This sounds pretty specific to his audience
 

Waiting on him

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In the end it revolves around what the different events mean for different people; the church is manifestly not Israel.
Trying to understand. Dave l has asked numerous times and has yet to receive an answer. What is Isreal grafted back in to
 

BARNEY BRIGHT

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What your saying about corruption has been going on for thousands of years. So this supposed last generation at on moment in Time is going to receive the wrath of God for all the sin countless generations have committed.

That sounds like what Christ did?

What I'm saying is that Jehovah God has always had a schedule day in which he would destroy the wicked world ruled by Satan. That's it, he's not going to change that day cause you or anyone else doesn't like it.