The Seven-Year Tribulation???

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atrhick

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The Seven-Year Tribulation Since so much rapturist theology revolves around the seven-year period, one would assume that the Bible must speak frequently of such a time period. But not so. There is not one single scriptural reference that ties the seven years to the end of the world or the coming of Christ. Most rapturist literature mentions the seven-year tribulation period without offering any Bible proof or explanation. Millions have assumed that it must be so well documented that no proof is needed. In fact, the opposite is true. There just isn't any evidence to give. Most Bible students are amazed to learn that the rapturists try to justify their seven years by lifting a prophecy of Daniel completely out of its context. In Daniel 9:24-27 God made a daring prophecy concerning the probation of the nation of Israel. He said to Daniel, "Seventy weeks ['weeks of years' RSV] are determined upon thy people ... to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins" (v. 24). Please notice that God was going to allow Daniel's people seventy weeks to see what they would do with the Messiah when He appeared. The seventy weeks are prophetic time, and each day represents a literal year (Ezekiel 4:6). So the seventy weeks would be a literal period of 490 years, after which the Israelites would no longer be God's people. They would be rejected as a nation because of their rejection of the Messiah. Don't miss the point in Daniel 9:25 that the prophecy of the seventy weeks was to begin with the decree to restore and build Jerusalem. That well-known date is 457 B.C., when Artaxerxes sent out the decree (Ezra 7:13). From that date, 457 B.C., the Jews would have exactly 490 years to finish filling up their cup of iniquity by rejecting the Messiah. That 490-year probation ended in A.D. 34, and the Jews ceased to be God's chosen people. Daniel 9:25 says that the Messiah would be anointed after sixty-nine of those prophetic weeks had passed by. That would be 483 years from the decree date of 457 B.C. It takes no mathematician to figure the end of that prediction. It brings us to the year A.D. 27, the very year that Jesus was baptized by John and the Holy Spirit anointed Him for His ministry. Since "Messiah" means" Anointed One," this had to be the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy that the Messiah would appear in A.D 27. Now mark this fact: seventy weeks were assigned to the Jewish probation, but Christ appeared as the Messiah after sixty-nine weeks. That leaves the seventieth week for Christ to minister before the Jews' probation ended. What was to happen in the seventieth week Daniel 9:27 tells us, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." The midst of the week would be three and a half prophetic days (literal years) from His baptism. And according to the Bible, the ministry of Jesus lasted for three and a half years. In the spring of A.D. 31 He was crucified. The veil of the temple was rent (Matthew 27:51), signifying the end of sacrifices. By His death He caused them to cease. Another three and a half years would lead up to the end of the seventy weeks and the end of Jewish probation. During that three and a half years the disciples labored largely for the Jews. But in A.D. 34 the seventy weeks ended; Stephen was stoned and the gospel began to go to the Gentiles (Acts 8:4). The Jews had rejected the gospel message and were no longer God's people - just as Daniel had predicted. Henceforth they could be saved only as individuals, in exactly the same way as the Gentiles. As a nation, they had been rejected as the chosen people. Here is the way the Bible describes that rejection: Matthew21:43 "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you." Matthew 21:19 "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (The fig tree was a symbol of the Jewish nation.) Matthew 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 9:6-8 "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children; but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are ... the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (The New Testament teaches the acceptance of spiritual Israel, and the rejection of physical Israel and the children of the flesh.) Romans 2:28, 29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter." Acts 13:46 "It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles." The rapturists get their seven years' tribulation by lifting that seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy completely out of its context and shoving it far into the future. They claim it will be fulfilled after Christ comes to snatch away the righteous secretly. Incredible Absolutely! But they must grasp desperately for some text to support their seven years. They agree that the sixty-nine weeks of Daniel 9:25 refer to the period before Christ's first advent, but then they insert a 2,000-year gap before the seventieth week is fulfilled. They allot 69 weeks plus 2,000 years plus one week, or a total of 2,490 years. By this devious manipulation of God's Word, the rapturists believe they have extended the Jewish probation; and based upon this, they teach that all the fleshly Jews will be saved in a great second chance after the "secret rapture" takes place. The tragedy of the rapture theory is that it takes these beautiful verses of Daniel 9:24-27 that predict the coming of Jesus, His baptism and crucifixion, and apply them to Antichrist. They do this by stating that it is Antichrist that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease after three and one-half years. But Daniel states that it is Jesus who caused the sacrificial system of the Jews to cease when He died on the cross. A misinterpretation that confuses something Christ has done, and applies it to the devil instead, is certainly a tragic occurrence. And yet this is the only way one can arrive at a seven-year tribulation period. How sad!Articel Taken from here
 

Christina

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I agree in with you completely that rapture has no Biblical basis.I dont think the seven year week has as much to do with Rapture belief as some of the other scripture they twist to find support for a Non Biblical concept of Rapture.what I question is the seventieth Week is in the past.For one thing the dates are not set firmly enough to absolutely state this as you have laid out there is controversy about when the 490 years starts, amoung other things . But most importantly the book of Rev. places the Abomination of Desolation during the mid week of the tribulation. It is this last 3 1/2 years (42 months,& 1260 days) of the seven years that are one of the key's to understanding time in Rev. I don't believe the 70th week is past,However I do believe the tribulation (itself)is shortened from 3 1/2 years to 5 Months (Rev 9:5 &9:10)that will occur during or shortly after the 7 year period.No matter which you believe about the 70th week past or futureyou are right there is no Biblical support for Rapture in scripture
 

Alanforchrist

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Dec 25, 2007
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The Seven-Year Tribulation Since so much rapturist theology revolves around the seven-year period, one would assume that the Bible must speak frequently of such a time period. But not so. There is not one single scriptural reference that ties the seven years to the end of the world or the coming of Christ. Most rapturist literature mentions the seven-year tribulation period without offering any Bible proof or explanation. Millions have assumed that it must be so well documented that no proof is needed. In fact, the opposite is true. There just isn't any evidence to give. Most Bible students are amazed to learn that the rapturists try to justify their seven years by lifting a prophecy of Daniel completely out of its context. In Daniel 9:24-27 God made a daring prophecy concerning the probation of the nation of Israel. He said to Daniel, "Seventy weeks ['weeks of years' RSV] are determined upon thy people ... to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins" (v. 24). Please notice that God was going to allow Daniel's people seventy weeks to see what they would do with the Messiah when He appeared. The seventy weeks are prophetic time, and each day represents a literal year (Ezekiel 4:6). So the seventy weeks would be a literal period of 490 years, after which the Israelites would no longer be God's people. They would be rejected as a nation because of their rejection of the Messiah. Don't miss the point in Daniel 9:25 that the prophecy of the seventy weeks was to begin with the decree to restore and build Jerusalem. That well-known date is 457 B.C., when Artaxerxes sent out the decree (Ezra 7:13). From that date, 457 B.C., the Jews would have exactly 490 years to finish filling up their cup of iniquity by rejecting the Messiah. That 490-year probation ended in A.D. 34, and the Jews ceased to be God's chosen people. Daniel 9:25 says that the Messiah would be anointed after sixty-nine of those prophetic weeks had passed by. That would be 483 years from the decree date of 457 B.C. It takes no mathematician to figure the end of that prediction. It brings us to the year A.D. 27, the very year that Jesus was baptized by John and the Holy Spirit anointed Him for His ministry. Since "Messiah" means" Anointed One," this had to be the fulfillment of Daniel's prophecy that the Messiah would appear in A.D 27. Now mark this fact: seventy weeks were assigned to the Jewish probation, but Christ appeared as the Messiah after sixty-nine weeks. That leaves the seventieth week for Christ to minister before the Jews' probation ended. What was to happen in the seventieth week Daniel 9:27 tells us, "And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease." The midst of the week would be three and a half prophetic days (literal years) from His baptism. And according to the Bible, the ministry of Jesus lasted for three and a half years. In the spring of A.D. 31 He was crucified. The veil of the temple was rent (Matthew 27:51), signifying the end of sacrifices. By His death He caused them to cease. Another three and a half years would lead up to the end of the seventy weeks and the end of Jewish probation. During that three and a half years the disciples labored largely for the Jews. But in A.D. 34 the seventy weeks ended; Stephen was stoned and the gospel began to go to the Gentiles (Acts 8:4). The Jews had rejected the gospel message and were no longer God's people - just as Daniel had predicted. Henceforth they could be saved only as individuals, in exactly the same way as the Gentiles. As a nation, they had been rejected as the chosen people. Here is the way the Bible describes that rejection: Matthew21:43 "The kingdom of God shall be taken from you." Matthew 21:19 "And when he saw a fig tree in the way, he came to it, and found nothing thereon, but leaves only, and said unto it, Let no fruit grow on thee henceforward for ever. And presently the fig tree withered away." (The fig tree was a symbol of the Jewish nation.) Matthew 23:38 "Behold, your house is left unto you desolate." Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus." Galatians 3:29 "And if ye be Christ's, then are ye Abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise." Romans 10:12 "For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him." Romans 9:6-8 "For they are not all Israel, which are of Israel: Neither, because they are the seed of Abraham, are they all children; but, In Isaac shall thy seed be called. That is, They which are ... the children of the promise are counted for the seed." (The New Testament teaches the acceptance of spiritual Israel, and the rejection of physical Israel and the children of the flesh.) Romans 2:28, 29 "For he is not a Jew, which is one outwardly; neither is that circumcision, which is outward in the flesh: But he is a Jew, which is one inwardly; and circumcision is that of the heart, in the spirit, and not in the letter." Acts 13:46 "It was necessary that the word of God should first have been spoken to you: but seeing ye put it from you, and judge yourselves unworthy of everlasting life, lo, we turn to the Gentiles." The rapturists get their seven years' tribulation by lifting that seventieth week of Daniel's prophecy completely out of its context and shoving it far into the future. They claim it will be fulfilled after Christ comes to snatch away the righteous secretly. Incredible Absolutely! But they must grasp desperately for some text to support their seven years. They agree that the sixty-nine weeks of Daniel 9:25 refer to the period before Christ's first advent, but then they insert a 2,000-year gap before the seventieth week is fulfilled. They allot 69 weeks plus 2,000 years plus one week, or a total of 2,490 years. By this devious manipulation of God's Word, the rapturists believe they have extended the Jewish probation; and based upon this, they teach that all the fleshly Jews will be saved in a great second chance after the "secret rapture" takes place. The tragedy of the rapture theory is that it takes these beautiful verses of Daniel 9:24-27 that predict the coming of Jesus, His baptism and crucifixion, and apply them to Antichrist. They do this by stating that it is Antichrist that causes the sacrifice and oblation to cease after three and one-half years. But Daniel states that it is Jesus who caused the sacrificial system of the Jews to cease when He died on the cross. A misinterpretation that confuses something Christ has done, and applies it to the devil instead, is certainly a tragic occurrence. And yet this is the only way one can arrive at a seven-year tribulation period. How sad!Articel Taken from here
That is only your own thoughts, Biblical experts say different,
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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That is only your own thoughts, Biblical experts say different,
Who cares about what biblical experts say? The ONLY true biblical expert is Jesus Christ, the Son of the Living God... and that is ALL I need, since He can't lie. Thanks, but no thanks, we don't need your thoughts of MEN!.
 

Christina

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You are so right Jag there are few Men and few churches that know Gods Word they teach what other men have said and claim it to be of God so if you have a good church cherish it.What does God say about it.Amo 8:11 ¶ Behold, the days come, saith the Lord GOD, that I will send a famine in the land, not a famine of bread, nor a thirst for water, but of hearing the words of the LORD: Amo 8:12 And they shall wander from sea to sea, and from the north even to the east, they shall run to and fro to seek the word of the LORD, and shall not find [it]. Amo 8:13 In that day shall the fair virgins and young men faint for thirst. this is a spiritual thirstAnd what does he say of the few that teach the true Word and not mens traditionsMat10:22 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved. Hear these words Endurth untill the End not fly away Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up to be afflicted, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all nations for my name's sake. This is the Elect being put on trial by Antichrist amazing the Elect are still here at the time of tribulation this is Gods Words not mens lie to deceiveMar 13:13 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake: but he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved. Luk 21:17 And ye shall be hated of all [men] for my name's sake. So dont hate those who teach truth and love those that lie to you about being gone for it is the fly away doctrine that leads ones into Antichrist waiting arms God never taught it never says itHe will return for his children once at the End 7th trump(2 Thess.2:) that is when we are gathered to the Lord God after the son of Perdition (Antichrist) an not a min. beforeand anyone claiming different is not teaching Gods Words but mens lies.
 

Super Kal

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so, concerning the Tribulation... how long will it be?... and when do we know when it has started?
 

Jordan

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so, concerning the Tribulation... how long will it be?... and when do we know when it has started?
In a sense, we are IN the tribulation. If you meant when Satan aka the AntiChrist is here. It won't be here until Revelation 9:1 begins... which is obviously before Christ comes back. (I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 11:15)
 

Super Kal

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In a sense, we are IN the tribulation. If you meant when Satan aka the AntiChrist is here. It won't be here until Revelation 9:1 begins... which is obviously before Christ comes back. (I Corinthians 15:52, I Thessalonians 4:16-17, Revelation 11:15)
okay, this really intrigues me... I'm honestly really curious about this because I am... lol, if that made any sense... um, yeah, how far along are we, and i have a lot of questions on that... i used to hold a bit of a historicist view on it, but now I'm in the middle of things, or so to speak, so if there's a link where you can send me to, I'd be grateful(kriss;58833)
Hi kal I just wrote a study on this called What is Antichrist read it and it will lay it all out for you if you have any questions please ask start at post #1or 2http://www.christianityboard.com/antichris...58815#post58815
thank you for the link
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... I'll definitely check it out
 

Super Kal

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I do have a question about Daniel 9:27 though... in the original Hebrew, the word covenant is translated גּבר, which is "gâbar"... this is the definition of of "gâbar":H1396A primitive root; to be strong; by implication to prevail, act insolently: - exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.note the word "insolently", which means rudely... this confuses me...
 

Christina

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Daniel 9:27 (King James Version)And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.In the strongs they show the Word as the bĕriyth ....in the femine form -meaning1) covenant, alliance, pledgea) between men1) treaty, alliance, league (man to man)2) constitution, ordinance (monarch to subjects)3) agreement, pledge (man to man)4) alliance (of friendship)5) alliance (of marriage)
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between God and man1) alliance (of friendship)2) covenant (divine ordinance with signs or pledges)2) (phrases)a) covenant making
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covenant keepingc) covenant violationwhich is what I thought it meant there is a root word it comes from, but I dont think that word was itHeres a link to check strongs yourself (make sure you put a check mark in the strongs box) Just copy key words from the verse and paste in box check mark strongshttp://www.blueletterbible.org/search.html#search
 

Christina

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Well I can only say Im not sure where you are getting that word from, so I dont know if its the correct wordbut if it is ...I can only assume that not all the words in the defintion fit every caseYou know like our English dictionary not every meaning fits every case we just choose the meaning that fits the context of the sentence.I prefer Strongs with a KJV because the strongs was written to go with the KjV and gives you every word, but thats of course a personal choice
 

Super Kal

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oh, I prefer it too... in fact, i Only use it.i got that word from the phrase "and they shall confirm"and the definition of "gâbar" is1) to prevail, have strength, be strong, be powerful, be mighty, be greata) (Qal)1) to be strong, mighty2) to prevail
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(Piel) to make strong, strengthenc) (Hiphil)1) to confirm, give strength2) to confirm (a covenant)d) (Hithpael)1) to show oneself mighty2) to act proudly (toward God)it's this last one that confuses me
 

Christina

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Oh now I see I was just using the term Covenant I would say that means to act in a prideful /proud manner(remember we are warned not to be prideful/ Satan fell because he was full of pride... so proud of himselfmost likely in a rude way which could explain the other meaning
 

tomwebster

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I do have a question about Daniel 9:27 though... in the original Hebrew, the word covenant is translated גּבר, which is "gâbar"... this is the definition of of "gâbar":H1396A primitive root; to be strong; by implication to prevail, act insolently: - exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.note the word "insolently", which means rudely... this confuses me...
Wrong word:Dan 9:27 And he shall confirm(H1396) the covenant(H1285) with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. H1396גּברgâbargaw-bar'A primitive root; to be strong; by implication to prevail, act insolently: - exceed, confirm, be great, be mighty, prevail, put to more [strength], strengthen, be stronger, be valiant.H1285בּריתberîythber-eeth'From H1262 (in the sense of cutting (like H1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh): - confederacy, [con-]feder[-ate], covenant, league.More like, "make a firm covenant
 

Super Kal

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are you sure?... in the definition itself, it says "by implication to prevail, act insolently"... and the definition of the word "insolently" is"boldly rude or disrespectful; contemptuously impertinent; insulting: an insolent reply"...I'm still confused, because from what I'm reading from this, it says"and he shall (insolently; insultingly; disrespectfully)confirm a covenant..." so... yeah... :confused:
 

Christina

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Are you understanding this is Antichrist and this is an unholy covenant that this is an abomination to Godthat this is Antichrist standing where he ott not (that is in the holy of holies declaring himself to be god