We really CAN'T answer some of these

tzcho2 · Apr 7, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
then why deflect @
There is only One Immortal
No one has ever gone up to heaven
? Those are Scripture, I didn't imagine them or make them up or anything, right
I gave absolutely no opinion on them whatsoever, in fact would like to see anyone give an opinion on them, bam pls give me your opinion! I'm just Quoting them see, that's usually (as in always, without fail, so far) plenty! Well or at least I have yet to ever get any further lol, hmm wonder why!

and Paul disagrees with what you have stated over and over to boot I guess ok, no offense, when he quotes from many other Scriptures that are not in our Bible

As I said, whenever someone insists that Bible is Word it is always, always always so that they may then institute themselves between God and everyone else via their also "inerrant" interpretations, while also avoiding any Scriptural questions directed at them via some deflection or other, so reliably that it is a rule imo

Its simple I have not deflected. You Still post no scripture, but your opinions only.

bbyrd009 · Apr 7, 2019

tzcho2 said:
Its simple I have not deflected. You Still post no scripture, but your opinions only.

go with that then, maybe that just wasn't for you right now ok
the vv will still be here whenever you get to them I guess
have a nice Sunday, gotta run

Willie T · Apr 7, 2019

brakelite said:
Some "insane" Christians think the same regarding Sabbath observance. A commandment, even one of the ten, for which is claimed there is no NT admonishment re observance thus in their mind sufficient evidence that the Sabbath commandment is no longer a literal, but a "spiritual" day, whatever that means.

I think it is literal. But, is it specifically only the Saturday that Jews say it has to be?

tzcho2 · Apr 7, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
Sorry but I Quoted directly. Have a nice day ok

That is not true. You have not quoted scripture. Do you not know what "quoting " scripture looks like?
This is quoting scripture.
John 9:35-38 " 35 Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”36He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him."

GerhardEbersoehn · Apr 7, 2019

FHII said:
Do you really want answers? I can answer some of them. But they won't be popular.

I for one do not care about popular or not; but I have to keep my intellectual capability into consideration. For example, I cannot cope with more than one problem at a time.

tzcho2 · Apr 7, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
go with that then, maybe that just wasn't for you right now ok
the vv will still be here whenever you get to them I guess
have a nice Sunday, gotta run

It's not a matter of me "going with that" . It is a matter of the reality is, you have not quoted scripture but your own words. The continual denial of the facts is why you get blocked.

bbyrd009 · Apr 7, 2019

tzcho2 said:
That is not true. You have not quoted scripture. Do you not know what "quoting " scripture looks like?
This is quoting scripture.
John 9:35-38 " 35 Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?”36He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” 37 Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” 38And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him."

unfort imo you cut off the best part, the last three vv, to force your point here, see
and those last three are the ones you might need the most, ok

bbyrd009 · Apr 7, 2019

tzcho2 said:
It's not a matter of me "going with that" . It is a matter of the reality is, you have not quoted scripture but your own words. The continual denial of the facts is why you get blocked.

I just went and verified that those are still in there, regardless of your stated perspective on the matter, or whether you maybe cannot find them or whatever? Dunno, and don't care, as you could always ask if you are having trouble finding them, but you aren't doing that at all right?

"You" would rather make laws about Quoting, I guess? That wadr I do not have to follow, see, and I note that when you do you still manage to mangle Scripture, so no offense but I'll stick with my way, which allows you to hopefully claim some deniability later, see?

If I were to Quote like you say then those last three vv would undeniably fall upon you, whereas this way you at least have an excuse.

And let's admit that you don't want to touch those Scriptures with a ten foot pole anyway, right?

BreadOfLife · Apr 7, 2019

Kermos said:
1 First of all, then, I urge that entreaties [and] prayers, petitions [and] thanksgivings, be made on behalf of all men,
2 for kings and all who are in authority, so that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity.
3 This is good and acceptable in the sight of God our Savior,
4 who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth.
5 For there is one God, [and] one mediator also between God and men, [the] man Christ Jesus,
6 who gave Himself as a ransom for all, the testimony [given] at the proper time.
1 Timothy 2:1-6

The Apostle Paul writing to Timothy utilizing the clause "all men" in verse 1 and verse 4.

Lord Jesus said:

"the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many" (Matthew 20:28)

"many are called, but few are chosen" (Matthew 22:14)

Jesus IS GOD (John 8:58). Paul IS MAN (Acts 7:58 Saul is Paul). The words of Paul need to reconcile back to Jesus. Lord Jesus said that Jesus came "to give His life a ransom for many". Paul wrote "gave Himself as a ransom for all". Lord Jesus said "many"; on the other hand, Paul said "all".

God is all mighty (Genesis 35:11) with a might that surpasses human intellect abilities (Isaiah 55:8). If God really wants something, then God gets it (Daniel 4:35, Jude 1:4, Revelation 21:27, Romans 9:20-23).

While examining Paul's writing in 1 Timothy 2:1-6, we would do well to keep in mind the revelation to the Apostle John:

"And they sang a new song, saying, 'Worthy are You to take the book and to break its seals; for You were slain, and purchased for God with Your blood men from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. You have made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God; and they will reign upon the earth.'" (Revelation 5:9-10)

Paul indicates prayers be made on behalf of "all men" then Paul mentions a classification of men, that is kings in the plural and those in authority in the plural. Don't forget Revelation 5:9-10.

Paul then indicates the prayers be about "that we may lead a tranquil and quiet life in all godliness and dignity".

The "all men" mentioned by Paul does not indicate specific men, rather classifications/types of men. There are kings, and there are "not" kings. Keep an eye on Revelation 5:9-10. Note Paul's writing here does not mean that we cannot pray for specific individuals.

In verse 4, Paul indicates God desires "all men" to be saved. The "all men" in verse 4 are a continuation of the "all men" in verse 1, that is, the classifications/types of men. God desires men of various types to be saved, recall Revelation 5:9-10 above.

In verse 6, Paul indicates that Christ Jesus gave Himself a ransom for "all", and that "all" is the elect/chosed of God (recall Matthew 22:14 above). That is, the ones who are born again by the Spirit of God (John 3:3 and John 3:5) as well as the work of God in a person to believe in Jesus whom the Father has sent (John 6:29).

Can the Apostle Paul be referring to every person who ever lived at any point in time in 1 Timothy 2:4 or 1 Timothy 2:6? Let's examine scripture which contains the answer.

- Judas Iscariot (Jesus knew the son of perdition [destruction, ruin, loss, perishing; eternal ruin] would betray him John 13:11, John 17:12, Acts 1:16-20)

- Pharoah (raised up to fight against God Romans 9:17)

- Esau (God said "JACOB I LOVED, BUT ESAU I HATED." Romans 9:13 translated accurately, quoting from Malachi 1:2-3)

- Jewish Religious Leaders (they cried out saying, "Crucify, crucify!" about Jesus John 19:6 and with the upcoming "Your" being God's "to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur" Acts 4:27-28)

- Pontius Pilate (the upcoming "Your" being God's "to do whatever Your hand and Your purpose predestined to occur" Acts 4:27-28)

- Antichrist ("false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect" Matthew 24:24)

The above six points, every one of the points, makes reference to REAL people. The people are ALL under the wrath of God for there is no indicating of belief in Jesus whom the Father has sent!

Paul wrote Romans 9:13 and Paul wrote 1 Timothy 2:4. Thus providing more clarity that "all men" in 1 Timothy 2:1-6 are various types of men.

It is far worse than a critical disservice to God for any man to interpret 1 Timothy 2:1-6 as some kind of promiscuous man controlled salvation support apparatus.

Please see "The Sovereignty of God is true, and the sovereignty of man is false Post (in this thread)".

Ummmmm, what does ANY of this have to do with what I posted??

bbyrd009 · Apr 7, 2019

tzcho2 said:
It's not a matter of me "going with that" . It is a matter of the reality is, you have not quoted scripture but your own words. The continual denial of the facts is why you get blocked.

lol, like if I were to include your (man-made) numbers in with the deal they would suddenly be more apparent to you or something?

I mean are you having trouble finding the Quotes or not, tzcho2?
lol. Bc idc how we get to those Scriptures, your way is fine with me, what is it?

Enoch111 · Apr 7, 2019

Kermos said:
"All that the Father gives Me will come to Me, and the one who comes to Me I will certainly not cast out." (John 6:37)

This is generally used by Calvinists to "prove" Unconditional Election, but that is not what it means. Here is what that Scripture is teaching us:

1. The Father (as well as the Son and the Holy Spirit) draw ALL MEN to Christ through the Gospel. The whole point of the preaching of the Gospel is to bring sinners to the Savior. Therefore Christ's command to go into all the world and preach the Gospel to every creature.

2. Those who believe are (1) justified by grace, (2) sanctified by the Spirit, (3) regenerated by the Spirit, and (4) made children of God through the supernatural New Birth. They also become a part of the Body, Bride, and Building of Christ. Christ is the divine Bridegroom and the Father gives the Bride (the Church) to the Son for the Marriage of the Lamb. The Church is called "the Lamb's Wife".

3. These are the ones given to the Son by the Father, and they will surely come to Christ, since they have fully trusted in Him and His finished work of redemption.

4. All those who come to Christ "as little children" with repentance and faith are received by Him into the family or God, and they will never be cast out. Because they are "in Christ".

It is IMPOSSIBLE for God to elect some for salvation and others for damnation. That would be a violation of His character and His Gospel.

Helen · Apr 7, 2019

OzSpen said:
Willie,

Since I spend a lot of my ministry as an apologist, I've come across these kinds of objections to Christianity or the Bible many times. On my homepage, Truth Challenge, I've written a few articles addressing some of these topics:

1. “Jacob I loved, Esau I hated". What is the meaning?

2. The injustice of the God of Calvinism

3. Was Judas saved and then lost?

4. Sent to hell by God: Calvinism in action?

That should be enough to get us discussing.

Many of the topics you raised I have searched the Scriptures to discover God's answers. Some are what I call 'hot potato' subjects that some pastors and church leaders don't want to discuss.

Oz

I have bookmarked your link...I hope I live long enough to read everything that I want to read.

Thank you.

Nancy · Apr 7, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
ha well again good Q imo, we like to keep the two separate I guess huh. Jesus' instructions to the 70 and then the 12 are surely literal enough for the literalists I guess, you know any Bible- thumpers preaching that? Me neither
imo those are what we substitute for Jesus' obvious and clearly explained "Way," and how our right eyes and hands come to offend us even, by instituting these "donts" rather than performing the "dos?"

Bc imo the obv next steps there are to start pointing out whenever someone is smoking cigarettes or whatever right, as a sin? Completely ignoring that we have now put ourselves between God and them, we are now the offenders iow.

Not saying that those are not good things to quit, don't get me wrong; but I would never bring any of those up to you as my friend if you were doing them, now anyway. And even though I once quit smoking that way I would perceive it now as strictly an attempt to clean the outside of the cup, just more ego serving itself imo

an obv contrast that comes to mind here is Paul seeking to become like them in order to win them. Exactly the opposite iow right

When speaking of these habits; "but prolly lots of ways to leave the habits of the world I guess?" (underline mine

) I was generally asking if this is the kind of thing you meant by your comment.

"we like to keep the two separate I guess huh." Physical and spiritual you mean here?

"you know any Bible- thumpers preaching that?" Lol...I don't listen to or read bible thumpers. And, your question went right over my head

Many Christians still smoke cigarettes and many do not take care of their bodies, I don't say they are sinning, ever! This is not a "works" thing I am talking about here, lol. And...yes, Paul became all things to all people...I see this as having NO judgement of these people because of their "worldly habits" but loved them despite them.
I'm pretty sure he did not become a drunkard with those with that particular addiction, or any other addiction but, just loved and gave them the Word of God...IMHO ♥

"Not saying that those are not good things to quit, don't get me wrong; but I would never bring any of those up to you as my friend if you were doing them, now anyway."

And, neither would I

Nancy · Apr 7, 2019

Dave L said:
Your experience sounds a lot like mine. Saved apart from church or preaching. But I knew it was Jesus and when I later read the gospel in scripture I believed. I think Cornelius was born again bearing the fruits long before he heard Peter preach. But believing the gospel when heard always reveals the new birth.

Does anybody ever think that the "Church" gatherings were not meant to "get people saved" but to build each other up in the faith, encourage, help one another then...we go back to our own lives and live what we know to be true. I see that from there is the starting point of Jesus saying "Go, and make disciples..." It is the lost who need saving and the children of God who need to gather for prayer, fellowship, encouragement strength... -TO GO and spread the Gospel? to those "without" the Church?

Helen · Apr 7, 2019

Nancy said:
Does anybody ever think that the "Church" gatherings were not meant to "get people saved" but to build each other up in the faith, encourage, help one another then...we go back to our own lives and live what we know to be true. I see that from there is the starting point of Jesus saying "Go, and make disciples..." It is the lost who need saving and the children of God who need to gather for prayer, fellowship, encouragement strength... -TO GO and spread the Gospel? to those "without" the Church?

EXCELLENT , well said.
Agree the "Gospel Meeting" we used to go to when first saved, were full of saved people!! Our old pastor always open with a prayer that the unsaved would wander in. ( no one ever 'went out'. )

One Sunday a scruffy man came in , he sat at the back and cried all the way through.
The old pastor was thrilled that this man was there...only to find out the man's dog had died, and he wanted to come and cry for her. ( some disappointed people that night!! haha! )

Nancy · Apr 7, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
EXCELLENT , well said.
Agree the "Gospel Meeting" we used to go to when first saved, were full of saved people!! Our old pastor always open with a prayer that the unsaved would wander in. ( no one ever 'went out'. )

One Sunday a scruffy man came in , he sat at the back and cried all the way through.
The old pastor was thrilled that this man was there...only to find out the man's dog had died, and he wanted to come and cry for her. ( some disappointed people that night!! haha! )

Ah, but we don't know what seeds might have been planted while he was mourning his dog, lol.

Willie T · Apr 7, 2019

This sounds like: "I don't necessarily want to help you through a tough time... I just want you to hear my preaching that I have practiced so well."

Helen · Apr 7, 2019

Willie T said:
This sounds like: "I don't necessarily want to help you through a tough time... I just want you to hear my preaching that I have practiced so well."

Haha! Very true, I was told people were disappointed that he wasn't weeping over his sins. But, maybe he heard some love of Jesus for him during the preaching. As @Nancy said..who know what seeds were sown.

Nancy · Apr 7, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
Haha! Very true, I was told people were disappointed that he wasn't weeping over his sins. But, maybe he heard some love of Jesus for him during the preaching. As @Nancy said..who know what seeds were sown.

"... disappointed that he wasn't weeping over his sins." Hahaha. Well, I can understand that as, what else would most think?

Taken · Apr 7, 2019

Willie T said:
"75 Questions Your Instructors Pray You will Never Ask,"

1. Didn't God Hate the Unborn Infant Esau?
....No.

2. Could Pharaoh Have Repented?
....No.

3. Does God's Absolute Predestination Make Him Unfair?
.....No.

4. If We Can't Work Our Way INTO Salvation,
How Can We Work Our Way OUT?
.....Not a possible conclusion to an If /Then scenario.

5. How Can God GUARANTEE Good for His People Without PREDESTINATING Good?
....Presupposing predestination does not exist, but it does.

6. How Can We Escape the Love of God?
....No one can.

7. If We Can "Fall From Grace," Isn't Christ's Intercession Ineffective?
....No.

8. Are We LESS Than Conquerors?
....Yes "WE" are.

9. Doesn't God Make "Vessels Fitted for Destruction"?
....Yes.

10. When Did God Decide to Give Us Eternal Life?
....Before we were Created.

11. Isn't Our Heavenly Inheritance Fully Guaranteed?
.... We have no Heavenly Inheritance.

12. Aren't Our Good Works Predestined?
.... Yes.

13. Didn't Jesus Deliberately Hide His Message so People Wouldn't Repent?
.... Some people Yes.
.... Some people No.

14. Could Judas Have Refused to Betray Jesus?
.... No.

15. Don't Evil Men Also Glorify God?
.... No.

16. Can Satan Repent and be Saved?
.... No.

17. Aren't Men Ordained in Advance to Eternal Life?
.... Yes.

18. Doesn't God Compel Men to Believe in Jesus?
.... No.

19. Didn't God Choose Us Long Before We Accepted Him?
.... Yes.

20. How Can an Unregenerate Man Accept Christ?
.... Belief and heartful confession of
.... belief.

21. Could the Authorities Have Acted Righteously and Released Jesus?
.... No.

22. Isn't God's Grace Irresistible?
.... No.

23. Isn't the Will of God Absolutely Sovereign?
.... Absolute? No.
.... Gods Will Sovereign? Yes
.... Gods Will have Discretion? Yes

24. Isn't Faith in Christ the Gift of God?
.... "the gift" ? No.
.... "a gift" ? Yes.

25. Did Christ Die for All Men?
.... Yes.

26. Isn't it Immoral for People to Have Sex with Animals?
.... Yes.

27. How Can We Love God But Ignore God's Law?
.... Love is an emotion.
.... Law is a guidance.
.... Senseless IF/Then scenario.

28. Is Profession of Faith Enough, or Do Our Acts Also Count?
.... Incomplete thought. Enough for
.... what?

29. If Men Won't Obey God's Law, Are They Saved?
.... Depends on IF they Believed and
.... Confessed...then Yes, they ARE
.... Saved.

30. Are We "Once Saved, Always Saved"?
.... Yes. The past tense of sav-ED, being
.... determining Factor.

Glory to God,
Taken

We really CAN'T answer some of these

Well-Known Member

Groper

Heaven Sent

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Groper

Groper

Well-Known Member

Groper

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Heaven Sent

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Well-Known Member

Similar threads