Should I be rebaptised?

Stranger said:

No where am I as a Protestant required to call Luther or any other involved in the Reformation, 'Father'. Yet you want to claim I have Protestant Fathers. So, address the depth of your ignorance and dishonesty.

Yes, yes, I know. You don't worship Mary. You don't worship the 'fathers' . Yet, in reality you do. You venerate them.

Did I say 'Christ's Church' would be rejected? No. Again you are lying. I said the Roman Church is rejected.

Oh, I see. Your being a liar is a badge of honor. Strange.

Stranger

Click to expand...

Ahhhh - so it's your complete ignorance that's causing your confusion.
Well, allow me to educate you . . .

First of all - veneration is not "worship" in the strictest sense of the word. It's a special honor.
Astronauts and war heroes are venerated for their achievements - but we don't "worship" them.

Secondly - we don't "worship" Priests and the rest of the clergy. As Scripture commands us - we give them double honor because they are "over" us in Christ:

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Finally - we refer to them as "Father" in the SAME manner that Paul referred to HIMSELF as a kind of spiritual "Father" to HIS congregations:
1 Cor. 4:14–15
"For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel."

- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

There ends the lesson for the day . . .

Stranger said:

Whether you are a member of the Catholic Church, the Church of Jesus Christ, I don't know. It is composed of all born-again believers. Are you born-again? How did you become born-again?

I am Catholic because I have been born-again. I don't need the Roman Pontiff, or the Roman Church, or the Roman you, to tell me if I have been born-again or not. I have been. Thus I am part of the universal Church of Christ, the Catholic Church.

Stranger

Click to expand...

Like I said - if YOUR Church doesn't sound like the Church I described in post #528 - then you're NOT a Catholic.

You might belong to one of the tens of thousands of splintered offshoots of Protestantism - but you ain't Catholic . . .

Stranger said:

Whether you are a member of the Catholic Church, the Church of Jesus Christ, I don't know. It is composed of all born-again believers. Are you born-again? How did you become born-again?

I am Catholic because I have been born-again. I don't need the Roman Pontiff, or the Roman Church, or the Roman you, to tell me if I have been born-again or not. I have been. Thus I am part of the universal Church of Christ, the Catholic Church.

Stranger

Click to expand...

Hey Stranger,

There are different definitions/criteria of being "born again". Which definition are you referring to?

Born again - Wikipedia

Curious Mary

Marymog said:

There are different definitions/criteria of being "born again". Which definition are you referring to?

Click to expand...

Mary, Wikipedia won't help you. There is only ONE meaning of "born again".

BreadOfLife said:

anybody who insists that the Early Church was NOT Trinitarian is woefully-ignorant of both Scripture and History.

Click to expand...

I'm not insisting anything, and you are welcome to your trinity as I have said.
Would you like to see their flag?

for most of us anyway, but your flag is repped by onna those red stars I guess
that you are an alien here of a sort I'm sure you are aware anyway

That you may be One, as We are One
i can do all day though, ok

tzcho2 said:

islamo-faux bia is a phony accusation that was created as a strategy based upon a false premise, solely because of the success of the homo-faux bia term to falsely accuse others of bigotry if they did not want to promote the gay lifestyle. These lies based upon false premises have been fully embraced by the left.

Click to expand...

no doubt that also occurs, that is def the one end of the spectrum.
any powerful move for change will be usurped by others with an agenda, surely the CIA even uses this to their advantage etc. doesn't change how one should treat their neighbor I guess

and in that vein wherever I have asked for any witness against the Muslims currently surrounding one, I am still waiting for a reply. And now I am waiting for yours

bbyrd009 said:

for most of us anyway, but your flag is repped by onna those red stars I guess
that you are an alien here of a sort I'm sure you are aware anyway

That you may be One, as We are One
i can do all day though, ok

Click to expand...

That's the flag of Washington DC and is based on George Washington's Family Coat of Arms, which goes back to the 12th century . . .

bbyrd009 said:

I'm not insisting anything, and you are welcome to your trinity as I have said.
Would you like to see their flag?

Click to expand...

THIS is the Flag of the Vatican . . .

bbyrd009 said:

no doubt that also occurs, that is def the one end of the spectrum.
any powerful move for change will be usurped by others with an agenda, surely the CIA even uses this to their advantage etc. doesn't change how one should treat their neighbor I guess

and in that vein wherever I have asked for any witness against the Muslims currently surrounding one, I am still waiting for a reply. And now I am waiting for yours

Click to expand...

I have no idea what you are asking. As for powerful move for change - I don't know what you are referring to. I believe the Bible prophesies, things are going as God's word has indicated. Does any of these questions have to do with getting baptism or getting re baptised?

"The word "trinity" does not occur in the Bible and it took a few centuries of fermenting in a Greco-Roman Petri dish (and the decree of an emperor who was no theologian by a long shot) for the "Church Fathers" to come up with the Trinitarian dogma as un-solution to an otherwise non-existing problem.

The Bible writers, on the other hand, were unyielding monotheists and obviously didn't think much of pagan pantheons or could care less about the wholly pagan dilemma of where God the Father might end and God the Son began, and Who might have come up with Whom first (but to give a hint: the summit of Rome's divine pyramid comprised the so-called Capitoline Triad, which first consisted of Jupiter, Mars and Quirinus, and later Jupiter, Juno and Minerva)..."The amazing name Pantokrator: meaning and etymology

tzcho2 said:

I have no idea what you are asking. As for powerful move for change - I don't know what you are referring to. I believe the Bible prophesies, things are going as God's word has indicated. Does any of these questions have to do with getting baptism or getting re baptised?

Click to expand...

ah well baptized has not been defined though see
the real baptism imo is to um do what Christ commanded in sending out the seventy, and the twelve.
instead we encourage...ha well something else entirely right

BreadOfLife said:

THIS is the Flag of the Vatican . . .

Click to expand...

the legalities and the relationships are crystal clear BoL, they aren't even conspiracies. Centurions daughters can be raised too ok

bbyrd009 said:

"The word "trinity" does not occur in the Bible and it took a few centuries of fermenting in a Greco-Roman Petri dish (and the decree of an emperor who was no theologian by a long shot) for the "Church Fathers" to come up with the Trinitarian dogma as un-solution to an otherwise non-existing problem.

The Bible writers, on the other hand, were unyielding monotheists and obviously didn't think much of pagan pantheons or could care less about the wholly pagan dilemma of where God the Father might end and God the Son began, and Who might have come up with Whom first (but to give a hint: the summit of Rome's divine pyramid comprised the so-called Capitoline Triad, which first consisted of Jupiter, Mars and Quirinus, and later Jupiter, Juno and Minerva)..."The amazing name Pantokrator: meaning and etymology

Click to expand...

While it is true that the writers of the Bible were all raised in the tradition of monotheism, they also believed that Jesus is God the Son (and said so--especially John the Apostle) and that the Holy Spirit is God as well. When they wrote "God" they typically meant God the Father Almighty "who dwells in unapproachable light" but they believed Jesus' claims about Himself as the Messiah and God the Son. Ancient Jewish thought affirmed the notion that the Messiah would be God in human flesh. In the Western Christian tradition, Trinitarianism is a firmly established Biblical doctrine. In the Eastern Christian tradition, they also have a "Trinity" theology of sorts but it is expressed a bit differently. They say that the Father sends the Son and the Son sends the Holy Spirit who gives testimony to both Father and Son.

BreadOfLife said:

Ahhhh - so it's your complete ignorance that's causing your confusion.
Well, allow me to educate you . . .

First of all - veneration is not "worship" in the strictest sense of the word. It's a special honor.
Astronauts and war heroes are venerated for their achievements - but we don't "worship" them.

Secondly - we don't "worship" Priests and the rest of the clergy. As Scripture commands us - we give them double honor because they are "over" us in Christ:

1 Thess. 5:12
We ask you, brothers, to respect those who are laboring among you and who are OVER YOU in the Lord and who admonish you,

1 Tim. 5:17
Let the elders that RULE WELL be counted worthy of DOUBLE HONOUR, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

Finally - we refer to them as "Father" in the SAME manner that Paul referred to HIMSELF as a kind of spiritual "Father" to HIS congregations:
1 Cor. 4:14–15
"For I became your FATHER in Christ Jesus through the gospel."

- Jesus said, “Your FATHER Abraham rejoiced at the thought of seeing my day; he saw it and was glad.” (John 8:56).
- Stephen refers to "our FATHER Abraham," (Acts 7:2).
- Paul speaks of "our FATHER Isaac” (Romans 9:10).

There ends the lesson for the day . . .

Click to expand...

No, it's your lying that is causing the trouble. As I said, it is the Roman Church that has been rejected. Not Christ's Church which you claim.

Yeah I know. You don't worship Mary, you don't worship the 'fathers'. It is just a special honor. It's special all right. It is akin to worship. Just look at the way you are fighting for it now. I don't see Luther as a 'father'. I don't worship him. I disagree with him in many areas. Do you disagree with your so called 'church fathers'? Where?

Paul never says in (1 Cor. 4:14-15) that he became our Father. He says he has presented to us the Gospel by which we are born-again. Which raises the question, have you been born-again? How?

Sorry Einstein, but your lesson is deficient. Concerning all the verses you gave: Jesus was speaking to Israel. Stephen was speaking to Israel. Paul was speaking to Israel. Just as Paul ended with in the book of Romans when he said, (Rom. 15:8) "Now I say that Jesus Christ was a minister of the circumcision for the truth of God, to confirm the promises made unto the fathers."

Did you take notes?

Stranger

BreadOfLife said:

Like I said - if YOUR Church doesn't sound like the Church I described in post #528 - then you're NOT a Catholic.

You might belong to one of the tens of thousands of splintered offshoots of Protestantism - but you ain't Catholic . . .

Click to expand...

Like I said, I am a member of the Catholic church and a Protestant. My oh my. I am not a member of your 'Roman Church'.

All splintering is the result of the Roman Church which I have showed and which you have no reply.

Stranger

Marymog said:

Hey Stranger,

There are different definitions/criteria of being "born again". Which definition are you referring to?

Born again - Wikipedia

Curious Mary

Click to expand...

Hey Marymog

I wasn't aware of different definitions. Perhaps you or BreadofLife can school me on the different definitions.

And then explain what definition you like.

Stranger

bbyrd009 said:

ah well baptized has not been defined though see
the real baptism imo is to um do what Christ commanded in sending out the seventy, and the twelve.
instead we encourage...ha well something else entirely right

Click to expand...

"
The name Baal-berith features in the very sad story of the family of Gideon. It's mentioned twice.

When Gideon (now called Jerubbaal) dies after guiding Israel for forty years, the Israelites return to the idolatry that Gideon had freed them from, and erect Baal-berith, their god (Judges 8:33).

When Abimelech, the son of Gideon with his concubine from Shechem, persuades his fellow Shechemites that he should be their king, they give him seventy pieces of silver from the house of Baal-berith (in full: Beth-baal-berith; Judges 9:4). With that money Abimelech acquires a band of sordid thugs and proceeds to slaughter his seventy half-brothers, all on one stone. After the insurrection of Zebul and Gaal, Abimelech massacres the elite of Shechem by setting fire to the temple of El-berith, which was probably the same deity as Baal-berith (Judges 9:46)..."

Lady Crosstalk said:

Yes--I looked up the "Charismatic Episcopal Church" and they are quite similar to RCs except that they are not under the Vatican. They believe in the hierarchy and the liturgy, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, etc.

Click to expand...

As Scriptures prescribes. The CEC is a three streams church bring together Charismatic, Evangelical (The right way) and Liturgical (as the Church has done since the first)

Lady Crosstalk said:

Yes--I looked up the "Charismatic Episcopal Church" and they are quite similar to RCs except that they are not under the Vatican. They believe in the hierarchy and the liturgy, the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist, etc.

Click to expand...

Well, it's even more problematic then that, it has a very strange mishmash mix of roots & beliefs from Anglican, Roman Catholic & third wave charismatic movement, "doctrine and life of the early medieval priest-monks and bishops of Ireland, Scotland, England and Gaul, claims Apostolic succession via Timothy Barker Roman Catholic Bishop"...etc..... see below. Wikipedia says "with roots in the the Charismatic , Pentecostal, Wesleyan, and Third Wave charismatic movement..."
This from Wikipedia Charismatic Episcopal Church - Wikipedia

"The founders of the ICCEC drew inspiration from a diverse group of 20th century Christian church leaders and thinkers, particularly Alexander Schmemann (Orthodox, Russian diaspora), Lesslie Newbigin (Church of South India), Robert E. Webber (Anglican), Robert Jenson (Lutheran), and Thomas Oden (United Methodist); from the patristic fathers of the undivided Christian East and West; and from the doctrine and life of the early medieval priest-monks and bishops of Ireland, Scotland, England, and Gaul (represented by Caesarius of Arles, Columba of Iona, Aidan of Lindisfarne, Chad of Mercia, and Patrick), whom they saw as embodying a fatherly, sacramental, and Spirit-expectant leadership for their congregations.

The ICCEC's founding congregations were independent churches with roots in the Charismatic, Pentecostal, Wesleyan and Third Wave Evangelical movements. The ICCEC claims its apostolic succession via Timothy Michael Barker, the leader of the International Free Catholic Communion and the Rebiban line via the schismatic Roman Catholic bishop Carlos Duarte Costa, who founded the Catholic Apostolic National Church of Brazil.

The Charismatic Episcopal Church believes orthodoxy and orthopraxy to be the essence of the apostolic faith of the New Testament Church and holds the ancient Apostles' and Nicene Creeds as their official doctrinal statements. The ICCEC is not, nor has it ever been, affiliated with the Episcopal Church (ECUSA). The word episcopal is used to describe its hierarchy of bishops (see table). Many churches in the ICCEC, however, claim an Anglican identity and many use the American Book of Common Prayer (1979). A new sacramentary, now in broad trial use, contains modified Roman, Anglican, and Eastern rites.

Pentecostal scholar H. Vinson Synan reports that the ICCEC is the first church emerging from the Pentecostal-Charismatic revivals of the last century to use the term "Charismatic" in its official name."