Helen - if you worked in the deliverance ministry have you ever seen a Christian with a demon?
Can a Christian have a demon?
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Helen - if you worked in the deliverance ministry have you ever seen a Christian with a demon?
If a Christian can have a demon or not seems to be debated among Christians. I read this last night:
The following passages of Scripture are some instances of demonization of believers of God, Jews and Christians, from the New Testament after Pentecost. There are also many pre-Pentecost and Old Testament references to demonization of believers, notably the stories of Job (Job 1:8-9; 2:3; 2:7); Saul (1 Sam. 16:14-16, 18:10, 19:9); the Caananite woman's child (Matt. 15:22-28); Jesus rebuking Peter (Matt. 16:22-23); a man with a demon in a synagogue (Mark 1:23); James and John being told "you know not what spirit your are of" (Luke 9:52-56); a "daughter of Abraham" with a "spirit of infirmity" (Luke 13:11-16); and Judas being demonized by Satan (John 6:70-71, 13:27). We believe that these are all pertinent examples that bear on this discussion as we believe that the Bible is a continuous revelation of how God works with man and what the will of God is for man.
The following passages of Scripture are some instances of demonization of believers of God, Jews and Christians, from the New Testament after Pentecost. There are also many pre-Pentecost and Old Testament references to demonization of believers, notably the stories of Job (Job 1:8-9; 2:3; 2:7); Saul (1 Sam. 16:14-16, 18:10, 19:9); the Caananite woman's child (Matt. 15:22-28); Jesus rebuking Peter (Matt. 16:22-23); a man with a demon in a synagogue (Mark 1:23); James and John being told "you know not what spirit your are of" (Luke 9:52-56); a "daughter of Abraham" with a "spirit of infirmity" (Luke 13:11-16); and Judas being demonized by Satan (John 6:70-71, 13:27). We believe that these are all pertinent examples that bear on this discussion as we believe that the Bible is a continuous revelation of how God works with man and what the will of God is for man.
Can I throw something in the mix to consider- none of the quotes / passages/ examples come after Pentecost and the coming of the Holy Spirit - so did that change things.Just an observation x
That's an interesting study, ( the link ) very long though- will take time to read it all
Rita
That's an interesting study, ( the link ) very long though- will take time to read it all
Rita
Hi Rita - I didn't read through the entire link yet either. I have to read in small bites to really understand and grasp what is being said and then to see how it squares with Scripture. But that's a good point - the examples given weren't after Pentecost. I'm going to continue reading up on it since I don't know if that would have any bearing on it - when someone receives the Holy Spirit. I did read "Deliver us From Evil" by Don Basham and I respect his judgment. He said that a Christian can have a demon. If they can I just wonder to what degree since as you pointed out, a believer has the Holy Spirit. From what I'm reading it's a debated topic - much like everything else
Sorry, just noticed that this is
only part of the study quoting scripture, I presume the post Pentecostal ones are further in the study you shared the linked to , so ignore what I said ! Lol
only part of the study quoting scripture, I presume the post Pentecostal ones are further in the study you shared the linked to , so ignore what I said ! Lol
We must have been posting at the same time, I will take a look at the study and see if I can find the post Pentecost verses, that might gives us more context x
I just re-read it - they were instances that happened after Pentecost. I just wonder if Christians are being deceived as the writer said. We do have a wily enemy.
I have often wondered about the things in a person's life before coming to faith, things that can come in as a result of lifestyle, choices, influences- I mean many need ministry after coming to faith, often many times- so it must be possible for certain things to remain with the In dwelling of the Holy Spirit. We all have pasts prior to coming to faith- and we don't get free of everything ( although some are dramatically released )Hi Rita - I didn't read through the entire link yet either. I have to read in small bites to really understand and grasp what is being said and then to see how it squares with Scripture. But that's a good point - the examples given weren't after Pentecost. I'm going to continue reading up on it since I don't know if that would have any bearing on it - when someone receives the Holy Spirit. I did read "Deliver us From Evil" by Don Basham and I respect his judgment. He said that a Christian can have a demon. If they can I just wonder to what degree since as you pointed out, a believer has the Holy Spirit. From what I'm reading it's a debated topic - much like everything else
Reading the article, he does stated that the word demonization is mis leading, so perhaps it's how we interpret that word that gives the impression that people have different opinions.
He states that many think that the word means that a demon has completely taken over that person- what I would call ' real possession ' Hecdoesnt seem to convey that he believed that can happen to a ' spirit filled ' Christian. However the word can also mean ' to be influenced by a demon ' and thus be deceived- now I totally get that , and agree.
One is an internal inheritance the other is an outward influence.
The latter is something that we should all be aware of, and I don't think all Christians are, so it can make them a target for denial. If a person never seeks to be ' searched by the Lord ' If they never self examine, then the enemy will find it easier to continue the deception.
Have you ever read Frank Perretti books,( piercing the darkness ect , they are fantasy, but give an interesting view of this kind of warfare.
Rita
He states that many think that the word means that a demon has completely taken over that person- what I would call ' real possession ' Hecdoesnt seem to convey that he believed that can happen to a ' spirit filled ' Christian. However the word can also mean ' to be influenced by a demon ' and thus be deceived- now I totally get that , and agree.
One is an internal inheritance the other is an outward influence.
The latter is something that we should all be aware of, and I don't think all Christians are, so it can make them a target for denial. If a person never seeks to be ' searched by the Lord ' If they never self examine, then the enemy will find it easier to continue the deception.
Have you ever read Frank Perretti books,( piercing the darkness ect , they are fantasy, but give an interesting view of this kind of warfare.
Rita
Why Men Don't Listen And Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What To Do About It
by Allan Pease and Barbara Pease
I just started reading this book. It explains that male and female brains are wired differently from birth, in a way that is humorous and easy to read. It explains a lot. We are different but equal.
As a Christian woman I believe I am created in God's likeness. He has both masculine and feminine attributes. When he created Adam, he too had both parts, but then God took out the feminine part out of Adam and created Eve. Equal but different.
It is a fact. There is no need for the enemy to attack a person who is not advancing spiritually. So that's why so few people understand the kinds of attacks that are possible. They walk in the realm of theory...having no practical experience of the spiritual walk.
It is unsettling at first to come to grips with the depths of the enemy's deceptions. As in...why does God allow the devil so much wiggle room?
The truth is that we get smug and forget to remain humble and fearful. God preserves them that fear Him. All others will be deceived by the devil...whether they realize it or not. The ones who realize the enemy's ways are the ones who walk in the life of Jesus.
So the right formula is to walk in the fear of the Lord AND the comfort of the Holy Spirit.
And there is grass growing by his feet.Kind of reminds me of this painting and story:
The Handle is on the Other Side
When I was little, my Dad used to drop me off at a nearby church so I could go to the Sunday School they had there. We weren’t a church-type family so what I saw and heard there was all new to me. And I remember this painting they had of Jesus - now I know it’s one of the most famous ones painted in modern times. You may have seen it. Jesus is in a garden, and He’s knocking on what looks to be a big oak door. The man who painted it was named Holman Hunt. And when he was ready to unveil it for the first time, he called his friends and family together to be the first to see it. Well, it was pretty quiet as each person stood there and drank in the deep feeling that painting conveys. Then people began to comment on what impressed them about it. But one friend said hesitantly,
"Uh, Holman - it’s a beautiful painting. But - well, didn’t you forget something?"
"What did I forget?"
The friend said, "The handle. There’s no handle on the door."
To which the artist simply replied, "Oh! No, I didn’t forget the handle. When Jesus knocks on the door of your heart - the handle’s on the INSIDE."
The Handle is on the Other Side
You can look up Holman Hunt Jesus in Google and find the painting
Why Men Don't Listen And Women Can't Read Maps: How We're Different and What To Do About It
by Allan Pease and Barbara Pease
I just started reading this book. It explains that male and female brains are wired differently from birth, in a way that is humorous and easy to read. It explains a lot. We are different but equal.
As a Christian woman I believe I am created in God's likeness. He has both masculine and feminine attributes. When he created Adam, he too had both parts, but then God took out the feminine part out of Adam and created Eve. Equal but different.
As an aside check this out a humourous look at the difference between men and women's brains called "the nothing box."
I have found that often attacks come at the weakest point and my husband and I have learned to watch out for them in our relationship. Another thing that I have observed is that when we are strong and able to resist, the arrows of attack will then be aimed at our unsaved children and family who have no idea that it is happening.
Okay, well one of the examples that is given is the incident with Simon, the sourcerer ( acts 8::9- 24 )
There is no reference to him being baptised with the Holy Spirit ( it mentions that the Holy Spirit had not yet come upon any of them - that they had only been baptised ) It is when Simon sees that the apostles laid hands on the believers , and they recieved the Holy Spirit that he wanted to ' buy ' the gift. This is when the apostles tell him to repent and seek forgiveness - he still has a heart that was influences by the occult practices that he was involved with.
Rita
The story of Ananias and his wife is a prime example of the external influences of Satan. '. How is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit. The issue was not that he kept money back, as the apostles states that it was his in the first place, it was the fact that he was decieved enough to believe that the lie would not be revealed. That was the lie that was fed to him by Satan ' God won't know ' that is temptation given into, and we are all able to be tricked by his whisperings.
In many respects I have always found it harsh that it cost Him and his wife their lives, but I guess God needed to shows the new followers that the Holy Spirit knows everything, and can reveal things through others.
Rita
Much of the demonic activity is in false teaching today. John says the spirit of Antichrist denies Jesus came in the flesh. In scripture Jesus = YAHWEH and all that he is. So in this, Oneness reflects the spirit of Antichrist as well as other sects who deny Christ's deity or the Trinity.
There are other dietary and marriage restrictions that point to demonic possession too.
There are other dietary and marriage restrictions that point to demonic possession too.
Of course this is blatantly false. You live on a human level of doctrines and opinions so then it is "natural" for you to see the battle on that level.
The devil doesn't care what you believe....only you do. There is no power in your beliefs. No threat. You think your opinions and beliefs are salvific. The devil won't bother you...actually the opposite.
Of course there are doctrines of demons. Like the cheap grace doctrine that denies obedience to God. But possession requires spiritual powers.....actual powers...not just ideas.
And this is because the real Christian walk is according to power...not doctrines, ideas, and opinions.
When a person walks in the power of the Spirit...that one walks like Jesus walked. Resurrection life is there for those who seek the Lord by faith. When Jesus said in Spirit and truth....that did not mean in opinion and theory.
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That article is taking Scriptures out of context to prove an invalid point. I could tear it apart, but that is a very misleading article, not worth wasting time on. Christians can be (a) influenced, (b) deceived, (c) oppressed, and (d) attacked by Satan, evil angels, or demons, but NOT possessed. Why? Because they are the PURCHASED POSSESSION of Christ.
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