Rapture Top Dogs Admit no Proof Exists.

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CoreIssue

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“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.”

Study the meaning of the Greek words. God stops holding the molecules of the universe together. When molecules come apart, massive energy is released like fire.
 

n2thelight

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Once again you are spiritualizing away what is literal. The earth -- every city, town, and village, every forest, every habitation, will be literally burned up. Read 2 Peter 3 again. Even the earth's atmosphere will be burned up.

You don't even understand the verses from Peter that you gave me.

II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

The "elements" are not the elements that you think of, such as gold, iron, oxygen and so on, but they are the "evil rudiments" that go to make up the evil in this earth age. This includes the evil spirits, the fallen angels, and all the things and forms of idolatry that cause flesh man to sin. The time of this burning will be at God's appointed time, so this verse is addressed to all those things that go to offend our Heavenly Father.

The earth will be rejuvenated not burned up.In other words it shall be put back like it was before God destroyed it,after the beginning,and NO ,I'm talking about the flood of Noah...

Do you understand or see the three Heaven and earth ages in that chapter?
 

Waiting on him

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“But the day of the Lord will come like a thief. The heavens will disappear with a roar; the elements will be destroyed by fire, and the earth and everything in it will be laid bare.”

Study the meaning of the Greek words. God stops holding the molecules of the universe together. When molecules come apart, massive energy is released like fire.
Sounds like the chicken Mrs Waiting fried for us the other night
 

CoreIssue

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You don't even understand the verses from Peter that you gave me.

II Peter 3:10 "But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up."

The "elements" are not the elements that you think of, such as gold, iron, oxygen and so on, but they are the "evil rudiments" that go to make up the evil in this earth age. This includes the evil spirits, the fallen angels, and all the things and forms of idolatry that cause flesh man to sin. The time of this burning will be at God's appointed time, so this verse is addressed to all those things that go to offend our Heavenly Father.

The earth will be rejuvenated not burned up.In other words it shall be put back like it was before God destroyed it,after the beginning,and NO ,I'm talking about the flood of Noah...

Do you understand or see the three Heaven and earth ages in that chapter?
The elements are the building blocks of everything in the universe as science recognizes.

The Universe will be reduced to Atoms.
 

n2thelight

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Genesis 9:11 "And I will establish My covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."

II Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Regardless of the testing that we may go through, God's children are looking forward to His promise of the new heavens and the new earth, where there will be no evil. This word "new " deserves a closer look, for it means freshness, rejuvenated heaven and earth. This is not another earth and another heaven, but the same earth made over, rejuvenated whereby the evil and pollution is gone. In the age of the new heaven and the new earth only the righteous and righteousness exists.
 

Waiting on him

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Genesis 9:11 "And I will establish My covenant with you; neither shall all flesh be cut off any more by the waters of a flood; neither shall there any more be a flood to destroy the earth."

II Peter 3:13 "Nevertheless we, according to His promise, look for new heavens and a new earth, wherein dwelleth righteousness."

Regardless of the testing that we may go through, God's children are looking forward to His promise of the new heavens and the new earth, where there will be no evil. This word "new " deserves a closer look, for it means freshness, rejuvenated heaven and earth. This is not another earth and another heaven, but the same earth made over, rejuvenated whereby the evil and pollution is gone. In the age of the new heaven and the new earth only the righteous and righteousness exists.
Who are those seated on thrones ruling over,
 

Enoch111

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It's translated "week" 19 times in the KJV, but here it's 7?
Correct. It is translated as "week" but literally it is a "seven".
Strong's Concordance
shabua: a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week
Original Word: שְׁבוּעַ
Part of Speech: Noun Masculine
Transliteration: shabua
Phonetic Spelling: (shaw-boo'-ah)
Definition: a period of seven (days, years), heptad, week


New International Version
He will confirm a covenant with many for one 'seven.' In the middle of the 'seven' he will put an end to sacrifice and offering. And at the temple he will set up an abomination that causes desolation, until the end that is decreed is poured out on him."
Only the NIV (which I don't normally use) has the literal meaning.
 

n2thelight

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No, that is incorrect. It is the fire OF God. Big difference.

No, that was right.

Hebrews 12:29 "For our God is a consuming fire."

This "consuming fire" is "God's glory present". God's "consuming fire" is the Holy Spirit that warms your heart, and protects you when the enemy comes against you. His Spirit will protect you exactly as God protected Daniel when he was in the Lion's den, or the three Hebrew children in the fiery furnace. This consuming fire was symbolic, or to signify that God will protect His own. So to those that love Him this, consuming fire is our protection, but to those who are against Christ it will consume them and cause them to perish.

So when you witness for Christ and study to follow His Word, God is going to take care of you. We are living in the generation of the "parable of the fig tree", spoken of in Matthew 24 and Mark 13, which is the final generation, and though Satan will rule this world for a brief time, God is our protection. That final generation started when the Jews, the two baskets of good and bad figs returned to Jerusalem to establish a new homeland. When that nation was established, the shoot of the fig tree was planted and all the signs and wonders of the end of this earth age would take place before the end of this generation comes to a close. That generation started in 1948, with a charter from the United Nation, and from it came the tiny nation of Israel.

It is because of these times that we are instructed to keep our eyes on Jerusalem, for it is there that the Antichrist will rule the earth. And during this reign of Satan, the "consuming fire" who is the Holy Spirit of God will keep each of his elect safe from harm. All that is except the two witnesses spoken of in Revelation 11:7 "And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascended out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them." That beast is Satan, and he will kill the two witness in Jerusalem while the world watches, and celebrates their death.

God will allow every thing that will happen to happen, and at the end of three and one half days, life comes back into the two witness, and they ascend into heaven. This marks the end of this earth age, "and instantly the second woe is past and behold the third woe cometh quickly."Friend, the seventh trumpet sounds, and this marks the start of the Millennium age, which is the destruction of all evil rudiments, idolatry, Satan's entire host of fallen angels. "God is a consuming fire."
 

VictoryinJesus

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No, that is incorrect. It is the fire OF God. Big difference.

Deuteronomy 4:33
[33] Did ever people hear the voice of God speaking out of the midst of the fire, as thou hast heard, and live?

Psalm 68:2
[2] As smoke is driven away, so drive them away: as wax melteth before the fire, so let the wicked perish at the presence of God.

2 Thessalonians 1:7-8
[7] And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels, [8] In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ:

Ezekiel 1:4
[4] And I looked, and, behold, a whirlwind came out of the north, a great cloud, and a fire infolding itself, and a brightness was about it, and out of the midst thereof as the colour of amber, out of the midst of the fire.

2 Thessalonians 2:8
[8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

Fire, brightness, heat, melting, dissolved...For our God is a consuming fire. You said “No, that is incorrect. It is the fire OF God. Big difference.”

okay “of” ‘out of’ ‘from’ ‘in the midst’ or ‘before’: the only difference is in forcing it to mean literal fire. You cannot make the presence of God, Spirit...literal. Except when He was made flesh and manifest to take away the sins of men. God is Spirit. Ezekiel 1:26-28 And above the firmament that was over their heads was the likeness of a throne, as the appearance of a sapphire stone: and upon the likeness of the throne was the likeness as the appearance of a man above upon it. [27] And I saw as the colour of amber, as the appearance of fire round about within it, from the appearance of his loins even upward, and from the appearance of his loins even downward, I saw as it were the appearance of fire, and it had brightness round about. [28] As the appearance of the bow that is in the cloud in the day of rain, so was the appearance of the brightness round about. This was the appearance of the likeness of the glory of the Lord . And when I saw it , I fell upon my face, and I heard a voice of one that spake.

Mark 8:38
[38] Whosoever therefore shall be ashamed of me and of my words in this adulterous and sinful generation; of him also shall the Son of man be ashamed, when he cometh in the glory of his Father with the holy angels.

You are right: the Fire ‘of’ God does make a difference as you must separate the fire/brightness/glory from God ...to force the fire that melts all as being literal fire. (1 Timothy 6:16)
 
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Enoch111

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okay “of” ‘out of’ ‘from’ ‘in the midst’ or ‘before’: the only difference is in forcing it to mean literal fire. You cannot make the presence of God, Spirit...literal.
It is LITERAL SUPERNATURAL FIRE and not from the presence of God either. Quite the opposite. See what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah as a example. Fire simply came down out of Heaven. God did not visit Sodom and Gomorrah. When we make a mishmash of Scriptures, it does not help anyone.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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I have to disagree with you and one point. The original pristine condition of the earth did not have wakes, oceans and so on.

In fact it doesn't say he will clean up the earth. He may have the nations do that.

You may be right, CoreIssue. However, many Christians have speculated that the refurbishment will need to be done by God, for various reasons. The massive level of destruction was spoken of by Jesus in Matthew 24 ("no flesh would be left alive" if God does not shorten the time). With a hugely diminished population (from the numbers given in the Book of Revelation, at least 2/3 of the earth's population will be gone) it may not be possible to "clean up the earth", in any kind of a timely fashion--given the ordinary circumstances of today. The infrastructure will be gone and the survivors will need to be fed, housed and clothed. Diverting resources to "cleaning up" may not be possible. They will undoubtedly need to have divine help in more ways than one.

We may already be seeing the reality of sin=death working on the earth. There is apparently the beginning of mass death among the species of life. Scientists note it but chalk it up to "mysterious" causes. It may well be due to genomic entropy that began at the Fall. If that is the case, fixing the genomes of life will need to be done by Him, for long life to return in the Millennial Kingdom. (The 65th chapter of Isaiah, points to the restoration of very long life in the Millennial Kingdom.) Mankind will not be able to do it with any present or even near-future genetic science and technology. Every attempt at gene tinkering has, at least so far, been quite disappointing.

Cornell plant geneticist, John Sanford, Ph.D. (and of independent wealth because of his invention of the "gene gun") says that man's attempts at "gene editing" will not be successful. He explains in his book, Genetic Entropy, why it will not be possible for geneticists to repair genomic disorder in all the species of life (and all of the genomes are disordered--some more than others). Over half of all plant species which have ever lived are now extinct. There are close to the same numbers from the animal kingdom. And mankind is not immune to the same disordering.

Geneticists have estimated that when a species reaches a 3% accumulated mutational rate, that species is on an extinction path. Because of the very intricate design of life, there is very little room for error. Sanford also has made statements to the effect that there isn't much time left--and that world-class population geneticists are aware of the problem, but prefer not to speak of it. When recently giving a talk in a university setting, Sanford was asked by one of his hearers when we would start seeing the inevitable decline (leading to extinction) begin in the human population. He only half-humorously remarked, "Well, let's put it this way, I wouldn't make any plans beyond the end of this century."

This is a dying planet--God noted in Genesis, after the Fall, "Dying, you will die" (the Hebrew actually reads that way). The prophet Hosea notes that, "in the last days" (verse 3:5), the "land will be in mourning", with "everyone wasting away." Hosea further notes, "Even the wild animals, the birds of the sky, and the fish of the sea are disappearing."(verse 4:3). But God can and will restore the earth for the Millennial Kingdom. :)
 
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VictoryinJesus

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It is LITERAL SUPERNATURAL FIRE and not from the presence of God either. Quite the opposite. See what happened to Sodom and Gomorrah as a example. Fire simply came down out of Heaven. God did not visit Sodom and Gomorrah. When we make a mishmash of Scriptures, it does not help anyone.

Ok. Sodom and Gomorrah was a literal fire that come down from God. As other times in the OT. Can agree there. So you are saying Hebrews 12:29 For our God is a consuming fire.—is not correct but instead it is “our God is of a consuming fire”?

Meaning He sent it, but ‘a consuming fire’ not related to Him or His presence?

What about 2 Thessalonians 2:7-8 then?
[7] For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let , until he be taken out of the way. [8] And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:

“Consumes” “destroy” with the brightness of His coming. His coming means presence doesn’t it?

Isaiah 30:27
[27] Behold, the name of the Lord cometh from far, burning with his anger, and the burden thereof is heavy: his lips are full of indignation, and his tongue as a devouring fire:
 

Davy

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Oh, come on...that doesn't even make sense. My connecting LIKE passages is "isolating" scripture? Do you have even the slightest idea of what people do to pull together doctrines? Without it we wouldn't have the doctrine of the Trinity...and I would hope you see the importance and centrality of that.
Your objections to my points are consistently non-sensical.

Oh, come on, nothing... by the following type of statement you made (below), you try to plant the idea of Biblical imagery, symbology to suggest the 1,000 years may only be symbolic...

You said:
"Okay...so...given that Revelation is often not chronological, and is often symbolic in its use of imagry, most biblical scholars will tell you that the clear rule of thumb for interpreting less clear passages is to go to passages that are more clear. This is something that most scholars agree on, regardless of which school of thought they come from."

The "less clear passages", with your indirectly pointing to Rev.20, is YOUR OWN theory. Many scholars would debate that suggested idea that the Rev.20 Scripture is not clear. And you only planted that idea so you could try and use Scripture 'outside'... the Rev.20 chapter in attempting to prove your point.
 

Davy

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Actually, Historicism is not a doctrine of men, it's Bible doctrine. For example, Daniel 7:17 and 23 says a "beast" is a kingdom. Historicism is the most consistent interpretation with regard to prophetic symbolism.

Actually, Historicism is a doctrine from the seminaries. It is not a doctrine found in The Bible. Just because there are events written in God's Word that happened in history, does not mean man can create a whole doctrine on that and say it's a Bible doctrine. No man can claim proprietorship of historical events in The Bible. Historicism, just like Preterism, Futurism, et al, are simply seminary categories men have created to itemize doctrines within. They are tethers man created, not God.

The Hugeunots against which the papacy sent such a slaughter that they only had time to grab what they could carry and flee across the Alps to Switzerland in the dead of winter to escape it? I think their message today about Antichrist would be the same as it was back then.
Neither John nor Paul taught the Antichrist is one singular evil dude. The word "Anti-Christos" means "in place of Christ" or "in behalf of Christ". That's EXACTLY what the papacy has claimed to be since the 6th century A.D.

My ancestors (I was told) fled to Germany, and some of them then went to England where they became indentured to the Americas, to Virginia colony.

The word "antichrist" in 1 John 2:18 is just a label, not a personal name. And it is... used there in BOTH the singular tense, and the plural tense. John said they had already heard that antichrist shall come. Now if you really want to know God's Truth about that, you should be wanting to find out just 'when' and 'where' they had first heard that the antichrist shall come.
 
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Davy

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Copperhead asked me the same thing. A commentary on society's love affair with overseas conflict, which seems to be waning since it's about bankrupted our economy and the only thing we get to show for it is increased military spending and body bags.

You obviously are of a different generation of American than I. Communism was the main threat (and still is today), and that is what we were fighting against, and the reason was to protect our Christian way of life, and its availability to other nations. Now if you can't understand that military veterans of the Christian nations today are doing the same thing, then I feel sorry for you. Some of your rhetoric sounds like the anti-war hippes in my era.

God is still in control, and He is allowing today's world controllers to use the militaries to stop the radicals. This coming world government is of Him, so the rebels aren't going to change that. He has ordained it, just as He told Judah in Jeremiah's day to tell the people not to rebel, but go captive to Babylon and He would take good care of them there. He did just that. And He will take care of us through this coming beast system too.