The Carnal Christian

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FHII

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Upon encountering the title of this article one’s first thought might seem negative about it, but with all who become “born again” there is a period of growth that involves learning in the Word of God about the “old man,” which is the sin nature first seen in Adam and Eve, then in the entirety of their progeny—mankind (Rom 5:12-19). Upon rebirth the soul becomes “spiritually minded,” due to the imparting of the Spirit of God and the new nature (new man); and the old man continues to become more obviously identifiable so that we can continue to be taught by it—through the contrast of it with the new man!

Thus, it’s our position in Christ that will mature our walk in Christ, as the carnality will be seen to progressively decrease, as our spirituality increases, thereby maturing from a carnal Christian to a spiritual Christian (1Co 3:1); which within the last few generations requires much time due to the multitude of errant Biblical doctrines, resulting (in my opinion) from the lack of fundamental spiritual-growth-centered teachings (and just not enough Word-time reading and studying).

Thus there now coexists two natures in the soul of the believer, the old man and the new man; and through these both God’s school of godliness is taught, by which those reborn will all “be conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29), and thereby “grow up into Him in all things” (Eph 4:15).

All believers will pass through the “babe-in-Christ” stage (1Co 3:1), for though Christ is in you at rebirth, He is in not yet “formed in you” (Gal 4:19), that is, “unto a perfect man” (mature-in-Christ Eph 4:13), which concerns our “walk” or lifestyle. Redemption-wise believers are complete in Christ, which the lifestyle will manifest more all the time of what we already are in Christ.

As long as we are presently earthly bound we can never be completely free of carnality, which always remains to some degree or another, due to the indwelling of the old man; but this has no effect on our fully redemptive position in Christ, only on our growth in the strength of our faith. “Through faith,” grace came to us, and it is through the strengthening of our faith (only via the studying of Word of God by His Spirit) that we are able to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ” (2Pe 3:18).
Wonderful post! I put in bold something I wanted to specifically comment on. I see a lot of folks "searching for answers". They may be searching for answers to their own questions or searching for answers to uphold their point of view on a discussion.

That's all well and good, up to a point. But there is something to be said about just opening the Bible and just reading it for the sake of hearing what God has to say.
 

Netchaplain

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I did not speak of sinless perfection here on earth. I did speak of the Christian being a new man, not two different men
Before Salvation we were the old man bound by sin,and going along with the old nature,indwelling sin and corruption
After salvation we are a new man mortifying the indwelling sin and the deeds of the body,old nature.

There is not an old man and a new man at the same time.
If we're identifying these two as natures, I believe Paul's 7th Chapter to the Romans fully demonstrates the indwelling of both, as does I think the entirety of his Epistles.

God bless, and appreciate your replies!
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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If we're identifying these two as natures, I believe Paul's 7th Chapter to the Romans fully demonstrates the indwelling of both, as does I think the entirety of his Epistles.

God bless, and appreciate your replies!
the old man is crucified, the new man is in the old body, mortifying the motions of sin
 
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Netchaplain

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This is true, but since repentance is a condition of salvation, new born Christians must be properly discipled, so that carnality becomes a rarity, not a given. God gives the gift of the Holy Spirit to every believer so that "sin shall not have dominion over you".
I fully agree, and it's my understanding that faith is always simultaneous with grace, "through"
(Eph 2:8) which all else proceeds from the Spirit.

It's grace and faith that produces a "godly sorrow," and this works "repentance unto salvation" (2Co 7:10). "Repentance unto salvation" to me is in the sense of repentance out of salvation, or from salvation, for salvation is imparted simultaneously with faith, and all else derives from these two.

God bless, and thanks for your input!
 

Netchaplain

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Wonderful post! I put in bold something I wanted to specifically comment on. I see a lot of folks "searching for answers". They may be searching for answers to their own questions or searching for answers to uphold their point of view on a discussion.

That's all well and good, up to a point. But there is something to be said about just opening the Bible and just reading it for the sake of hearing what God has to say.
Amen, and thanks for your encouraging compliments and replies! I think it could be considered that the right questions precede the answers in significance. You're comment on Bibles reading just for the sake of truth is highly important. When we read it shouldn't be just for the purpose of confirming or justifying what we presently understand, but to learn truth for understanding.

Thanks for reply and instructional comments!
 
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charity

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But then if we are not talking about the body wherein sin dwells, what is the "sin nature", and where does sin live? (Ala Romans 7)

Hello @marks,

In Romans 1:16 - 5:11, sins are dealt with as the fruit of the root: Sin (the root) is dealt with in Romans 5:12 - 8:39; and we are shown how sins (the fruit) are dealt with and 'put away', and how God can be Just and the Justifier of the sinner who is saved on faith-principle, instead of law-principle.

Sin is the old nature, for though the sinner is justified in Christ, he still feels the pull of the old nature, and feels the conflict between that and the new nature. Though we still see the fruits, we are to reckon that the old tree has died, and reckon that we died in Christ's death. No change has taken place, the root still remains, The change is in our standing before God. We now stand on a different plane: 'we walk by faith'; and by faith we reckon that though the flesh is in us, we are 'not in the flesh'; and, in spite of the fruit that we see from time to time, we believe God when He tells us that the tree, in His sight, is condemned. A new graft has been put in, which can only produce, 'fruit unto God'; while everything that is produced from the old stock (below the graft) is worthless, and is cut away as such, by the Great Gardener's hand. We are 'His husbandry'. He grafts in us the new nature; and we believe Him when He tells us of all the wonders that He has wrought.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref: The Two Nature in the Child of God' by E.W. Bullinger
 
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aspen

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Upon encountering the title of this article one’s first thought might seem negative about it, but with all who become “born again” there is a period of growth that involves learning in the Word of God about the “old man,” which is the sin nature first seen in Adam and Eve, then in the entirety of their progeny—mankind (Rom 5:12-19). Upon rebirth the soul becomes “spiritually minded,” due to the imparting of the Spirit of God and the new nature (new man); and the old man continues to become more obviously identifiable so that we can continue to be taught by it—through the contrast of it with the new man!

Thus, it’s our position in Christ that will mature our walk in Christ, as the carnality will be seen to progressively decrease, as our spirituality increases, thereby maturing from a carnal Christian to a spiritual Christian (1Co 3:1); which within the last few generations requires much time due to the multitude of errant Biblical doctrines, resulting (in my opinion) from the lack of fundamental spiritual-growth-centered teachings (and just not enough Word-time reading and studying).

Thus there now coexists two natures in the soul of the believer, the old man and the new man; and through these both God’s school of godliness is taught, by which those reborn will all “be conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29), and thereby “grow up into Him in all things” (Eph 4:15).

All believers will pass through the “babe-in-Christ” stage (1Co 3:1), for though Christ is in you at rebirth, He is in not yet “formed in you” (Gal 4:19), that is, “unto a perfect man” (mature-in-Christ Eph 4:13), which concerns our “walk” or lifestyle. Redemption-wise believers are complete in Christ, which the lifestyle will manifest more all the time of what we already are in Christ.

As long as we are presently earthly bound we can never be completely free of carnality, which always remains to some degree or another, due to the indwelling of the old man; but this has no effect on our fully redemptive position in Christ, only on our growth in the strength of our faith. “Through faith,” grace came to us, and it is through the strengthening of our faith (only via the studying of Word of God by His Spirit) that we are able to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ” (2Pe 3:18).

Knowing your own man is helpful for a thorough confession. We ignore our false selves to own peril.
 

101G

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Hello @marks,

In Romans 1:16 - 5:11, sins are dealt with as the fruit of the root: Sin (the root) is dealt with in Romans 5:12 - 8:39; and we are shown how sins (the fruit) are dealt with and 'put away', and how God can be Just and the Justifier of the sinner who is saved on faith-principle, instead of law-principle.

Sin is the old nature, for though the sinner is justified in Christ, he still feels the pull of the old nature, and feels the conflict between that and the new nature. Though we still see the fruits, we are to reckon that the old tree has died, and reckon that we died in Christ's death. No change has taken place, the root still remains, The change is in our standing before God. We now stand on a different plane: 'we walk by faith'; and by faith we reckon that though the flesh is in us, we are 'not in the flesh'; and, in spite of the fruit that we see from time to time, we believe God when He tells us that the tree, in His sight, is condemned. A new graft has been put in, which can only produce, 'fruit unto God'; while everything that is produced from the old stock (below the graft) is worthless, and is cut away as such, by the Great Gardener's hand. We are 'His husbandry'. He grafts in us the new nature; and we believe Him when He tells us of all the wonders that He has wrought.

Praise His Holy Name!

In Christ Jesus
Chris

Ref: The Two Nature in the Child of God' by E.W. Bullinger
Great response charity. the "ROOT cause of sin, the old man. hence we must "grow" in Christ. we reap what we sow.
as in Adam case the devil "planted" the seeds of destruction. and words are seed.

Many say, "if I was adam, I would have done this, or that". well we are now in the same position Adam was in, so what are we going to do now?. John 6:63 "It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.

PICJAG.
 
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Phoneman777

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Upon encountering the title of this article one’s first thought might seem negative about it, but with all who become “born again” there is a period of growth that involves learning in the Word of God about the “old man,” which is the sin nature first seen in Adam and Eve, then in the entirety of their progeny—mankind (Rom 5:12-19). Upon rebirth the soul becomes “spiritually minded,” due to the imparting of the Spirit of God and the new nature (new man); and the old man continues to become more obviously identifiable so that we can continue to be taught by it—through the contrast of it with the new man!

Thus, it’s our position in Christ that will mature our walk in Christ, as the carnality will be seen to progressively decrease, as our spirituality increases, thereby maturing from a carnal Christian to a spiritual Christian (1Co 3:1); which within the last few generations requires much time due to the multitude of errant Biblical doctrines, resulting (in my opinion) from the lack of fundamental spiritual-growth-centered teachings (and just not enough Word-time reading and studying).

Thus there now coexists two natures in the soul of the believer, the old man and the new man; and through these both God’s school of godliness is taught, by which those reborn will all “be conformed to the image of His Son” (Rom 8:29), and thereby “grow up into Him in all things” (Eph 4:15).

All believers will pass through the “babe-in-Christ” stage (1Co 3:1), for though Christ is in you at rebirth, He is in not yet “formed in you” (Gal 4:19), that is, “unto a perfect man” (mature-in-Christ Eph 4:13), which concerns our “walk” or lifestyle. Redemption-wise believers are complete in Christ, which the lifestyle will manifest more all the time of what we already are in Christ.

As long as we are presently earthly bound we can never be completely free of carnality, which always remains to some degree or another, due to the indwelling of the old man; but this has no effect on our fully redemptive position in Christ, only on our growth in the strength of our faith. “Through faith,” grace came to us, and it is through the strengthening of our faith (only via the studying of Word of God by His Spirit) that we are able to “grow in grace, and in the knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus, the Christ” (2Pe 3:18).
Paul said "I die daily" which means we'll never stop having to fight against the old man of flesh.
 

aspen

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I agree with the OP in principle but for a few important points.

When a person is born anew by the Spirit...OLD things are passed away. That means that everything is different...including the passing of the old man. Who we once were....the old man...is no longer a historic reality. So then from then on the battle is between the carnal man and the spiritual man or the outer and inner man...the flesh and the Spirit. Paul never uses the term "old man" again after conversion.

It seems to me that my old sinful focus in life is falling away - Christ has renewed my mind and I now chase after Him and His ways rather than my own. Unfortunately, I am not immune from distraction by familiar behavior patterns (the neural pathways are still in place), only now, He has provided strong competing pathways.

This is just plain false. We can overcome all things through Christ. The power of Christ and HIS death in us keeps the natural man powerless so that the inner man can rise up by the grace of God. We can be spotless. The blood of Christ does not partially cleanse us from sin. Jesus died to eradicate ALL sin in us.

Yes, His blood forgives sin. Does He end all selfish behavior - hardly. Paul even laments over the thorn in his flesh, which God does not remove. We are still in need of humility in this life and God will not retard our sanctification by removing our self inflicted trials before we are with Him in Heaven. If you doubt, there is a simple way to determine if you are now without sin, ask yourself if you have ever loved perfectly. Now you know.

Those who have not experienced this power (grace) of resurrection life have not yet experienced the power of the cross of Christ. Paul says ...no longer I.... all that is natural is crucified...dead to sin.

Indeed. Paul is no longer the focus of his attention, his behavior/will is now focused on Christ. No longer Ego/false self/old man/I, but Christ in concert with his true self is his desire and focus. Nowhere does Paul claim to love perfectly/sinless.

Is Christ a minister of sin? Of course not. Those who preach that sin is in Christ...by claiming to be in Christ and yet walking in the flesh...will be judged.

Recognizing our sin and confessing it daily is the process of judging ourselves and asking Christ for forgiveness and experiencing His grace. Ideally, the same process happens in all healthy, intimate relationships - we apologize for bad behavior, which has affected the harmony between ourselves and our spouse and the relationship is repaired and eventually strengthened. Our confession is part of our sanctification, which house trains us for Heaven

If one abides in Christ that one cannot sin. There is no sin IN Christ. You can't be both in sin and in Christ.

This statement reminds me of the Catholic ban on birth control - an elegant theory, but.....

In practice, I have never loved perfectly a day in my life, nor do I know anyone who has (apart from Christ, of course) so how are we saved from ever sinning again? In fact, I even understand why God does not wipe away future personal selfishness - being perfected in this life time would totally muck up witnessing Christ to others. People would either cling to their sinful lives and convert on their deathbeds or be repelled completely by the cliquish Christians who could no longer relate to them at all. The Cathars proved it in the 11th century - most of them did not actually convert until they were on their deathbeds because living a sinless life sounded too hard. Humans are crafty beasts.

So they who say they abide in Him and sin are liars.

Yes. Sinners who do not acknowledge their sin are liars. Christians who do not acknowledge their sin are also hypocrites
 

Netchaplain

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Knowing your own man is helpful for a thorough confession. We ignore our false selves to own peril.
Amen, the majority of what we learn in trusting God's sovereignty over all things, and that for our "good" (Rom 8:28), is through the difficulties, which are ordered by Him (Psa 42:7, 8).

Good point about being aware of the continued indwelling of the old man (sin nature), which for the believer is solely to continue our learning about the new nature we have received from Christ (Col 3:10).
 
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Netchaplain

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Paul said "I die daily" which means we'll never stop having to fight against the old man of flesh.
True, and I often find myself (new self or new nature) more of a spectating solder in the battles, due to the Spirit's opposition to the sin nature (flesh) in my sole (Gal 5:17), and the Father's "work" in my soul (Phl 2:13).

Appreciate the comments, and God's blessings to your Family!