The necessity of the Trinity

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101G

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Both. The Comforter is the Holy Spirit. And distinct from the Father and the Son.
lets see if he's distinct. the COMFORTER is, according to the Greek term,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

is not the Lord Jesus is the advocate?, 1 John 2:1 "My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous
and the Greek term for advocate is,
G3875 παράκλητος parakletos (pa-ra'-klee-tos) n.
1. (properly) one called near (to give help).
2. an intercessor (one who entreats of behalf of another).
3. a comforter.
[(not given)]
KJV: advocate, comforter
Root(s): G3844, G2822

is this the same person? yes or no.

PICJAG
 

Enoch111

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is this the same person? yes or no.
If you will bear in mind that we are dealing here with the Mystery of God, both the Son and the Holy Spirit are designated as Advocates. Which simply doubles the Christian's representation before the throne of God. That does not in any way confuse and confound the Son and the Spirit.

If you were in a court of law as a defendant, and you had two outstanding lawyers representing you for the price of one, you would be extremely happy. So be happy and accept what the Bible says, instead of concocting your own theology.
 

101G

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If you will bear in mind that we are dealing here with the Mystery of God, both the Son and the Holy Spirit are designated as Advocates. Which simply doubles the Christian's representation before the throne of God. That does not in any way confuse and confound the Son and the Spirit.

If you were in a court of law as a defendant, and you had two outstanding lawyers representing you for the price of one, you would be extremely happy. So be happy and accept what the Bible says, instead of concocting your own theology.
first thanks for the reply, second ERROR on your part. for the scripture are clear. listen, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever".

Another Comforter? another. ok who is the "Comforter" before? the only one who came from HEAVEN and gave comfort, (comforter), help, (Helper), and counsel, (advocate), is the Lord Jesus. this is plain as day. Luke 2:25 "And, behold, there was a man in Jerusalem, whose name was Simeon; and the same man was just and devout, waiting for the consolation of Israel: and the Holy Ghost was upon him".

the word "consolation" here is,
G3874 παράκλησις paraklesis (pa-ra'-klee-sis) n.
1. an imploration, entreaty (urgent request (for mercy or help)).
2. an exhortation (urgent counsel, encouragement, or caution).
3. a comfort, solace.
[from G3870]
KJV: comfort, consolation, exhortation, intreaty
Root(s): G3870

there he is, in flesh, comfort, (comforter), help, (Helper), and counsel, (advocate).
so the Lord Jesus was the first "Comforter" to come from HEAVEN. and now "Another" Comforter without flesh. here in John 14:16 ANOTHER is, G243 Allos. and it means, Allos expresses a numerical difference and denotes another of the same sort. same Sort means the same one in a diffrent FORM. a particular kind, species, variety, class, or group, distinguished by a common character or nature. the nature of Jesus is Spirit. it's the same Person.

so the Persons you say is distinct, "Son" and "Holy Ghost", is person with the title "Son". so error on your part.

now as for the Father, and Son, another ERROR on your Part, it's the same person.
the Lord is the "LORD" diversified in flesh. proof scripture, Nehemiah 9:6 "Thou, even thou, art LORD alone; thou hast made heaven, the heaven of heavens, with all their host, the earth, and all things that are therein, the seas, and all that is therein, and thou preservest them all; and the host of heaven worshippeth thee".

so it is the "LORD" who made all things.

now the Lord, the Word who is Jesus. John 1:3 "All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made". so it was JESUS, one person who made all things, so the both sent is an ERROR.

the one person, Jesus, is the Spirit, the Holy Spirit, holds both titles of "Father"/LORD, and "Son"/Lord. Jesus, with the title "LORD", (without flesh), OT, created and made all things. Jesus, diversified with flesh, holds the title "Lord". at John 1:3 he is reference by Johnthere to his state as God, (the Spirit/LORD) who made everything. meaning it's the "SAME" Person, diffrent state.

conclusion, Jesus who is the Holy Ghost, holds, both titles of Father and Son. so no, both didn't send "HIS" Spirit. Jesus himself came to them. let's see it PLAIN as DAY. scripture, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

how plain can one get. "I ... WILL .... COME ... TO ..... YOU". and he did on the day of Pentecost, in Spirit, and in POWER.

so no, there is no both who sent the comforter, but only ONE who came himself, in POWER, and in "SPIRIT".


now if anything that we have posted is incorrect, please post it and we can discuss it.

PICJAG
 
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Enoch111

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first thanks for the reply, second ERROR on your part.
Well I guess you are bound and determined to continue believing your false doctrines about God. The errors are entirely on your part, as others will also testify. Holding to heresies about God and Christ is a rather dangerous occupation.
 

101G

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Well I guess you are bound and determined to continue believing your false doctrines about God. The errors are entirely on your part, as others will also testify. Holding to heresies about God and Christ is a rather dangerous occupation.
GINOLJC, to all.

First thanks for the reply, second, we take this as another you can't reprooff what we said?. other words you have no biblical truth to answer us. see Enoch111, our doctrine is based on scriptures, the TRUTH. all doctrine should be based on bible.

if what we say is such heresies, and is false doctrine as you say, should you not quickly and authoritatively correct us by the scriptures, and not by personal opinion as above? .... :eek:

bible, or end of story.



but since you're a defender of three persons of a trinity, why don't you take a shot a the the John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 question. is the "Lord"/the Word , JESUS, the same person as the LORD, whom you say is the Father yes or no.

until you answer that your doctrine is phony and unbiblical.

your choice to answer by scripture or not.

PICJAG.
 

amadeus

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Seeing that the Trinity has been under assault for centuries, I think its imperative that those of us who believe in the triune Godhead stand up against those who oppose this core belief.

God is one God.[Deuteronomy 6:4] Yet, in the Godhead, there are three Persons...

********************

In the Christ's baptism in Matthew 3, we can see the Son being baptized, the Spirit descending upon Him and the Father's voice in heaven saying "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well-pleased.”

So, to deny the Trinity is to deny the gospel of the Christ. The Father commissioned the Son to come and die for His elect ppl, the Spirit was sent to regenerate them. So, the Trinity is a core belief that needs to be believed by all believers.
A core belief without a doubt to many but certainly not because of the nice diagram you displayed here. If by core belief, you mean it is essential, then why is it not so stated as being essential in the scriptures? The first verse you cited confirms the oneness of God. The second one does not confirm that God is other than one although you and others have decided that somehow He is. Jesus never in so many words says 'you must believe that God is a trinity', yet many men have decided that it must be. It does make a person wonder!
 
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amadeus

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What I mean is that someone who is saved for YEARS and still has a false view of the Triune God is on an unsustainable path. Remember, But when He, the Spirit of truth, comes, He will guide you into all the truth; for He will not speak on His own initiative, but whatever He hears, He will speak; and He will disclose to you what is to come.[John 16:13] The Spirit will not lead someone into a faulty view of the Godhead.
No, God will not lead a person astray but after so many years as first a trinitarian and then as Oneness Jesus only and then from 1987 until now as outside both of those areas, I disagree with your conclusion which appears to be a man's conclusion not even based on a logical understanding of all the scriptures. Of course that is simply my own viewpoint, but is it really opposed to what God teaches us in the written scriptures? If a trinity is so important, why is it so important? I have yet to hear that explained.
 

amadeus

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It's as simple as this. If the trinity doctrine is true, all who reject it worship an idol bearing Jesus' name. Paul asks "what fellowship has light with darkness? So we steer clear of these as far as concerns fellowship.

Rejecting the trinity would also involve a person in having the spirit of Antichrist. By denying Jesus Christ, and all that he is, came in the flesh. A false Jesus will not suffice.

So the doctrine is of supreme importance and not to be treated lightly. It is the one doctrine that separates Christianity from all other religions of the world. To reject it makes one closer to Judaism or Islam than to Christianity.
Doubting or even disbelieving in a trinity does not necessitate a disbelief in Jesus and the reason he was sent.
 
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Dave L

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Doubting or even disbelieving in a trinity does not necessitate a disbelief in Jesus and the reason he was sent.
Here's the importance of the doctrine. It defines God as he reveals himself in the New Covenant. So any portrayal of God that does not match this description is an idol.
 

amadeus

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Well I guess you are bound and determined to continue believing your false doctrines about God. The errors are entirely on your part, as others will also testify. Holding to heresies about God and Christ is a rather dangerous occupation.
If they are heresies they certainly are dangerous, but who decides ultimately what is heresy and what is truth?
 

amadeus

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Here's the importance of the doctrine. It defines God as he reveals himself in the New Covenant. So any portrayal of God that does not match this description is an idol.
He has never revealed Himself to me as a trinity. Without a revelation of it on what basis should I embrace it? Because you embrace it? Because Catholics embrace it? Because many Protestants groups embrace it? Should we go back to what Moses taught? Did not he believe in the same God as Jesus? Where did Moses ever teach that there was a trinity of God that men should embrace it?
 
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Dave L

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He has never revealed Himself to me as a trinity. Without a revelation of it on what basis should I embrace it? Because you embrace it? Because Catholics embrace it? Because many Protestants groups embrace it? Should we go back to what Moses taught? Did not he believe in the same God as Jesus? Where did Moses ever teach that there was a trinity of God that men should embrace it?
You need to look for it. It will become obvious.
 

amadeus

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The trinity doctrine is a conclusion about God as taught in the scriptures. Anything short of recognizing that fact results in idol worship.
But who drew that conclusion deciding it was a must? If God did, where is it so definitely confirmed in the written scriptures?
 
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Dave L

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But who drew that conclusion deciding it was a must? If God did, where is it so definitely confirmed in the written scriptures?
Well, if the contents does not match the package, is it the real deal?
 

amadeus

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You need to look for it. It will become obvious.
I have been looking at it for a great many years and speaking to people about it for those years. I still have no revelation that the trinity is a necessary truth according to God.
 
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amadeus

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Well, if the contents does not match the package, is it the real deal?
My friend I believe in God and I believe in His Son, Jesus as the one sent as Redeemer. Why does that necessitate a believe in a trinity? Why is belief in a trinity necessary?
 
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Dave L

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I have been looking at it for a great many years and speaking to people about it for those years. I still have no revelation that the trinity is a necessary truth according to God.
It's like saying "any old Christ will do".
 

CoreIssue

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I have been looking at it for a great many years and speaking to people about it for those years. I still have no revelation that the trinity is a necessary truth according to God.
We are required to believe the true God and the true Messiah. That means the Trinity.
 
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Dave L

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My friend I believe in God and I believe in His Son, Jesus as the one sent as Redeemer. Why does that necessitate a believe in a trinity? Why is belief in a trinity necessary?
Not knowing the truth about God and believing false information about him instead = idol worship.