Why Was Cain’s Sacrifice Rejected by God?
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The Holy Spirit was ON, AROUND and LEADING those in the OT who were interested in following God. The prophets were moved by Him to speak the oracles of Yahweh. But, no one, other than Christ was permanently indwelt before His Resurrection and the Pentecost event that followed. You can see that in the case of Saul, and even David. They both committed egregious sin even after they were called to serve Yahweh. All of Israel knew about the sins of both of them. Yet, they both prophesied by the movement of the Holy Spirit on them. (2 Peter 1:20-21). Had they been indwelt, in my opinion, they wouldn't have sinned so flagrantly.
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
We are body, soul, and spirit. Which do you think is the heart (metaphorically speaking)?
No, actually it doesn't. A heart can be "darkened" but the spirit is never spoken of that way. It is the spirit which is born again from above. Before conversion, a person still has a heart (although a "foolish" one--"The fool says, in his heart, 'there is no God'."). Most believe that the "soul" and the "heart" are roughly equivalent. But, we were meant to be tri-partite beings--see 1 Thessalonians 5:23. Body, soul, and spirit.
“He said to him, “Love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, and with all your mind.” (Matthew 22:37)
Even those bound for hell have a heart. Most who study these things say that the "soul" and "heart" are roughly equivalent.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
You are correct there is not enough information, and this is only an assumption on our part nevertheless it is a possibility. Nothing in the account implies Cain’s offering was not the very best of his crops.
Imagine yourself in his shoes; what type of sacrifice would you have given to the LORD God your creator? Would you have chosen the very best of your crops or simply whatever was at hand at the time?
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
Unfortunately the scriptures don't support this idea. They make it clear that no one was begotten of the holy spirit prior to Pentecost. Note we are not talking about those faithful of the of the past who were guided and moved by the holy spirit, we are talking about those who have been begotten again by the spirit to a new nature.
This opportunity, the "new and living way"(Heb. 10:20), was not brought to light until Christ.
Why do you use plural expressions in your posts i.e ' an assumption on our part ' and in another post you used ' if you had read ' our ' post ?
To be honest I cannot possibly answer your question, it would depend on what I had been taught, heard, understood and what was influencing my decisions at the time. We have the advantage of knowing so much more now, also we are well aware of the spiritual battle that exist. I would hope I would follow Abels example , but none of us are infallible - the fall permeated everything. We have no idea what laws Adam and Eve laid down.
Rita
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
The Scriptures make a distiction between the faithful of the past who were moved by the holy spirit, and those during the Gospel age who are begotten by the holy spirit. Both have the holy spirits presence and guidance, but only those begotten of the holy spirit are begotten to a new nature, a spirit nature.
In the next age the Lord will pour out his spirit on all flesh (Joel 2:28), they will all have the holy spirits presence in and with them, but they will not experience a change of nature, that is something which is restricted to the Gospel age and only to those called of God.
"Now is the acceptable time"
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You are confusing the New Birth with the Baptism of the Holy Spirit.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
“And the Lord thy God will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love the Lord thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live.” (Deuteronomy 30:6)
“But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, gentleness, goodness, faith, Meekness, temperance: against such there is no law.” (Galatians 5:22–23)
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
This is true, no one begotten of the holy spirit during the Gospel age is born of the holy spirit until they have experienced their resurrection change.
First, if we are called we are begotten of the spirit, then comes the gestation period in which the "new creature" in us develops, but presently we are only in possession of the new mind, not the new body. We will not receive this until our resurrection change.
If we make our calling and election sure, and are proven faithful until death, we will receive the divine nature, immortality and share with Christ in his throne and his glory and in the blessings of the world.
If we felled to make this calling and election sure, but nevertheless refuse to deny our Lord we will still be resurrected spirit beings, but on a much lower plane of being than our more faithful brethren.
The third option is Second Death.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
That is what Russell taught that JW and Bible Students believe. But it is false
All who come to Jesus Christ in repentance have spirits that are instantly born again by the baptism of the Holy Spirit.
At the rapture resurrected bodies of the saints and still living Saints are glorified, not born again. Then rejoined into our eternal existence of born-again spirit in glorified flesh.
You are also avoiding defining the third option as annihilation, meaning ceasing to exist.
You are avoiding the issue in your belief 144,000 elite Saints will live in heaven with God and Russell while the others live on this earth for eternity.
1stCenturyLady
Well-Known Member
I believe God has given us a view of His nature in His complete Word, so we can intelligently fill in the blanks. After all where did Cain's wife come from if Adam and Eve only had two sons? He married his sister.
Harvest 1874
Well-Known Member
We are one body in Christ, there are no individuals. Just as wine is obtained at the expense of the life of the grapes, the grapes being crushed losing their individuality so too we in order to be joined to the body of Christ must be willing to sacrifice our lives and lose our individuality that we might be joined to the body of Christ. There is only one head.
You will note that the Apostle Paul often spoke this way when addressing the brethren, for example note in 2 Cor 1:8:
“For we do not want you to be ignorant, brethren, of our trouble which came to us in Asia: that we were burdened beyond measure, above strength, so that we despaired even of life.”
Here the Apostle was speaking not only for himself, but likewise for Timothy and all the brethren who shared with him in his afflictions.
2 Cor 4:1-3:
“Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we have received mercy, we do not lose heart. But we have renounced the hidden things of shame, not walking in craftiness nor handling the word of God deceitfully, but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. But even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing.”
Is it not your Gospel too? If so then you too are included in them who have received this ministry and mercy (divine favor).
And last 2 Cor 5:20:
“Now then, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were pleading through us: we implore you on Christ’s behalf, be reconciled to God.”
All of the Lord’s faithful are called as ambassadors of Christ and as such are used by the LORD in proclaiming his word. We (that is all of us who share in this ministry of reconciliation) implore others that they might likewise be reconciled.
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