Drawing the wrong conclusions

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Read Rev. 22:11. These are the 4 destinies of mankind...Jesus states them. The bible testifies to these at all times if you know how to understand prophetic things. For example the first time these 4 paths are stated is in Genesis 2....the 4 rivers.

And there are many others like it that deepen the understanding for the seeker of God.

But the bible also says there are none that seek Me.

People are happy to make up their own dogmas...ones that seem to their own benefit.


I don't seem to have started a thread on the actual subject... not on this site.

Revelation 22:11 New International Version (NIV)
11 Let the one who does wrong continue to do wrong; let the vile person continue to be vile; let the one who does right continue to do right; and let the holy person continue to be holy.”

You do not seem to realize mankind refers to all humanity. This verse refers to individual.
 

CoreIssue

Well-Known Member
Oct 15, 2018
10,032
2,023
113
USA
christiantalkzone.net
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Epignosis as actual understanding according to knowledge. Gnosticism is about a saving knowledge....but without any reality or change in behaviour...IOW it is the flesh having secret knowledge. Having a faith WITHOUT the miraculous works.

False. Gnosticism means hidden knowledge only seeable by the spiritual Elite. Knowledge that comes from revelation by spirits, not from the Bible.

That is why I call you Gnostic. You keep making claims that are not found in marble, that you claim come from the Holy Spirit.

But the Holy Spirit does not give the level of revelation you are claiming.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,661
7,923
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
People have been believing the words from God for a long time now. Your railings are against God's kingdom order and are are done in ignorance. May the Lord forgive you that ignorance and open your mind.

The rankings of the kingdom are for the next age. In a great house are vessels of honour AND vessels of dishonour.

It is advisable to...

1. Study the bible

2. Pray about things

If the Lord helps you, I am confident that you will come to the same conclusions as I have stated.

Doubtful God would place others at the top to look down on the filth at the bottom to tell them how uneducated they are, how they lack, how only a few will get it or the experience of it although “But the verse says that this is the work of God.

So it is something that only God can do.”

If we are not even faithful here, why would He set any over another for more oppression and more vain looks and words? Upper class, middle class, and lower class...we already have that in this world. Nothing “new” there. Matthew 20:25-28 But Jesus called them unto him , and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. [26] But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; [27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: [28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


Job 34:30 That the hypocrite reign not, lest the people be ensnared.

Who has been given much mercy...much mercy is required. Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

You may say there is mercy but how can that be so at the “filth”?

Referring to the garden and the four rivers...have you considered
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

the names may be important(the four heads.) Noah’s Ark had three levels but here was an ark built of man’s hands. As with the circumcision in the flesh. given of God but done away with in sight of something far better, a better ark. 2 Corinthians 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

An ark and circumcision where: 1 Corinthians 12:23-26 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
^ yet in the Kingdom you suggest the opposite. IS that really how His kingdom is.

2 Corinthians 8:14
[14] But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:

Acts 11:8-9
[8] But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. [9] But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

I’m sorry. Just don’t see it. If you could show where you came to understand this, it might help?
 
Last edited:

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,868
19,401
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
I’m sorry. Just don’t see it. If you could show where you came to understand this, it might help?

It would be easier to refer you to my featured threads than try to relate with typing all the facets required to come to a full understanding on the subject.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,661
7,923
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
It would be easier to refer you to my featured threads than try to relate with typing all the facets required to come to a full understanding on the subject.

have read your threads, can you point to one specifically? Admittedly I know nothing of dynasties. where does the rankings come from? the levels in Noah's ark, the four heads of the river? ask you to consider the new thing He has done. Doesn’t He say Out of His throne comes living water John 7:37-38 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. [38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Genesis 2:4-14 – The Four Rivers

Does it matter? Yes. You are suggesting that the deliverance from vanity is upper class, middle class, and lower class. Romans 8:20-21 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Delivered from the bondage of corruption (cursing and death) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. How can that be when there remains a class coined “filth”?
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: bbyrd009

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,904
2,568
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
Read Rev. 22:11. These are the 4 destinies of mankind...Jesus states them. The bible testifies to these at all times if you know how to understand prophetic things. For example the first time these 4 paths are stated is in Genesis 2....the 4 rivers.

And there are many others like it that deepen the understanding for the seeker of God.

But the bible also says there are none that seek Me.

People are happy to make up their own dogmas...ones that seem to their own benefit.


I don't seem to have started a thread on the actual subject... not on this site.

Before I responded to Episkopos' post, I did a search of the scriptures and found nothing to support his claims of ruling rankings in all of the Bible Scriptures. What I see is a display of voluptuously garbage flowing out of his mouth, i.e. posts, which is not from the Holy source of God, but which contain words and images that only suggest what he writes is spiritually knowledgeable and from God.

The lie he sends forth is wrapped in a truth that sounds plausible to the unwary.

it is easy to become inflated with ones own sense of importance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Enoch111

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,868
19,401
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
have read your threads, can you point to one specifically? Admittedly I know nothing of dynasties. where does the rankings come from? the levels in Noah's ark, the four heads of the river? ask you to consider the new thing He has done. Doesn’t He say Out of His throne comes living water John 7:37-38 In the last day, that great day of the feast, Jesus stood and cried, saying, If any man thirst, let him come unto me, and drink. [38] He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.

Genesis 2:4-14 – The Four Rivers

Does it matter? Yes. You are suggesting that the deliverance from vanity is upper class, middle class, and lower class. Romans 8:20-21 For the creature was made subject to vanity, not willingly, but by reason of him who hath subjected the same in hope, [21] Because the creature itself also shall be delivered from the bondage of corruption into the glorious liberty of the children of God.

Delivered from the bondage of corruption (cursing and death) into the glorious liberty of the children of God. How can that be when there remains a class coined “filth”?


I believe the reference to filth is related to holiness. How we can get out garments dirty...with sin. We are to keep our garments pure...so that no one can see the shame of our nakedness. Since the fall of man, nakedness represents shame. Remember that God made clothing for Adam and Eve...to hide their shame.

We are to be holy as God is holy.

If we claim to be in Christ then we will be judged against THAT standard. And that standard is to keep out garments clean...to be holy. Without holiness no one can see the Lord.

Now in todays' church holiness is not a popular subject. It is seen as an old doctrine related to bygone denominations. It is the sign of the present times.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,868
19,401
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Before I responded to Episkopos' post, I did a search of the scriptures and found nothing to support his claims of ruling rankings in all of the Bible Scriptures. What I see is a display of voluptuously garbage flowing out of his mouth, i.e. posts, which is not from the Holy source of God, but which contain words and images that only suggest what he writes is spiritually knowledgeable and from God.

The lie he sends forth is wrapped in a truth that sounds plausible to the unwary.

it is easy to become inflated with ones own sense of importance.


I'm sorry you feel that way...but I don't expect that many will receive what I have to say. The ad hominem attacks are unnecessary. If you can't see what I'm saying...that speaks for itself.
 

Episkopos

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
12,868
19,401
113
65
Montreal
Faith
Christian
Country
Canada
Doubtful God would place others at the top to look down on the filth at the bottom to tell them how uneducated they are, how they lack, how only a few will get it or the experience of it although “But the verse says that this is the work of God.

So it is something that only God can do.”

If we are not even faithful here, why would He set any over another for more oppression and more vain looks and words? Upper class, middle class, and lower class...we already have that in this world. Nothing “new” there. Matthew 20:25-28 But Jesus called them unto him , and said, Ye know that the princes of the Gentiles exercise dominion over them, and they that are great exercise authority upon them. [26] But it shall not be so among you: but whosoever will be great among you, let him be your minister; [27] And whosoever will be chief among you, let him be your servant: [28] Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.


Job 34:30 That the hypocrite reign not, lest the people be ensnared.

Who has been given much mercy...much mercy is required. Luke 7:47 Wherefore I say unto thee, Her sins, which are many, are forgiven; for she loved much: but to whom little is forgiven, the same loveth little.

You may say there is mercy but how can that be so at the “filth”?

Referring to the garden and the four rivers...have you considered
Isaiah 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

the names may be important(the four heads.) Noah’s Ark had three levels but here was an ark built of man’s hands. As with the circumcision in the flesh. given of God but done away with in sight of something far better, a better ark. 2 Corinthians 5:16-17 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Christ after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more. [17] Therefore if any man be in Christ, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new.

An ark and circumcision where: 1 Corinthians 12:23-26 And those members of the body, which we think to be less honourable, upon these we bestow more abundant honour; and our uncomely parts have more abundant comeliness. [24] For our comely parts have no need: but God hath tempered the body together, having given more abundant honour to that part which lacked: [25] That there should be no schism in the body; but that the members should have the same care one for another. [26] And whether one member suffer, all the members suffer with it; or one member be honoured, all the members rejoice with it.
^ yet in the Kingdom you suggest the opposite. IS that really how His kingdom is.

2 Corinthians 8:14
[14] But by an equality, that now at this time your abundance may be a supply for their want, that their abundance also may be a supply for your want: that there may be equality:

Acts 11:8-9
[8] But I said, Not so, Lord: for nothing common or unclean hath at any time entered into my mouth. [9] But the voice answered me again from heaven, What God hath cleansed, that call not thou common.

I’m sorry. Just don’t see it. If you could show where you came to understand this, it might help?


Gen. 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.

19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.
 

Jay Ross

Well-Known Member
Jun 20, 2011
6,904
2,568
113
QLD
Faith
Christian
Country
Australia
I'm sorry you feel that way...but I don't expect that many will receive what I have to say. The ad hominem attacks are unnecessary. If you can't see what I'm saying...that speaks for itself.

Just as yours ad hominem attacks are unnecessary.

Now If I cannot find any evidences that support your POVs, even after you have provided references which you claim support your view, then that speaks for itself that your presented perspective is a doctrine that you have created and is not supported by Scripture.

What irony?

That the OP is all about him and his wrongly drawn conclusions. That is the irony.
 

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,661
7,923
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I believe the reference to filth is related to holiness. How we can get out garments dirty...with sin. We are to keep our garments pure

Still the same even if filth relates to holiness. Unclean. Filth. Unholy. Doesn’t change the suggestion of upper class, middle class, and lower class. Man operates that way, not God.
 
  • Like
Reactions: marks and bbyrd009

VictoryinJesus

Well-Known Member
Jan 26, 2017
9,661
7,923
113
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Gen. 9:18 And the sons of Noah, that went forth of the ark, were Shem, and Ham, and Japheth: and Ham is the father of Canaan.

19 These are the three sons of Noah: and of them was the whole earth overspread.

25 And he said, Cursed be Canaan; a servant of servants shall he be unto his brethren.

26 And he said, Blessed be the Lord God of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

27 God shall enlarge Japheth, and he shall dwell in the tents of Shem; and Canaan shall be his servant.

Thank you.
 

bbyrd009

Groper
Nov 30, 2016
33,943
12,081
113
Ute City, COLO
www.facebook.com
Faith
Christian
Country
United States Minor Outlying Islands
Still the same even if filth relates to holiness. Unclean. Filth. Unholy. Doesn’t change the suggestion of upper class, middle class, and lower class. Man operates that way, not God.
Class might not be the best way to put it, but imo an arg could be made for a sort of distillation; i.e. the Church comes out of Israel, and the Bride comes out of the Church. I guess "refining" as in gold refining is more often used though? Several of these povs around I guess.

Imo we're a long way from discussing what Noah's sons really rep here, but you might find it interesting what brought about Ham's "curse," "24When Noah awoke from his drunkenness and learned what his youngest son had done to him..."
 
Last edited: