The Trinity

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tim_from_pa

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Correct me if I'm wrong, but in the case of Jesus' sonship that only had a beginning with His physical birth, thus he is the son of God. That's how he was begotten by the Spirit. Before then, Jesus was the Word. Since Jesus Christ is the same yesterday, today and forever, then it stands to reason that the Word was predestined to become the son, and indeed already was in the sense of personage because in eternity there is no time as we know it, and still coexisted with the Father. Likewise, he was slain before the foundation of the world when there was yet no sin and the possibility that there would not have been a fall. And yet he was still slain (now figure that paradox out).I think the key here is this has to do with were time meets eternity. He was always the son and always existed as such, and yet there needed to be a time where eternity manifested itself where there was an actual begetting and birth to make that possible.
 
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I think I was kind of misunderstood, I agree time it's when Eternity meets time. I'm not saying Jesus Christ isn't eternal, I do believe that. It's just hard for people to grasp the fact that Jesus Christ was a creation, he had a beginning, although Eternally existing in the Thoughts of Elohim.
 

treeoflife

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I think I was kind of misunderstood, I agree time it's when Eternity meets time. I'm not saying Jesus Christ isn't eternal, I do believe that. It's just hard for people to grasp the fact that Jesus Christ was a creation, he had a beginning, although Eternally existing in the Thoughts of Elohim.
I think outright saying "the trinity doesn't exist" is going to cause unnecessary ripples, because the trinity is just a word for the concept that God the Father, the Spirit, and the Son are One. They co-exist, however you want to explain it. Jesus is Lord, but did not consider it robbery to be equal with God (the Father).
 

tim_from_pa

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Well, I'm going to leave what I said at that for everyone here. People have different ways of understanding their "trinitarian" doctrine and I don't get too much upset if they do not understand it the same way I do.
 

setfree

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I was raised to believe in the trinity...never did understand it completely. But there are a lot of questions that I get asked that I can not answer....If God and Jesus are the same...thenDid Jesus pray to himself in the garden?Did Jesus sit on the right hand of himself in heaven?Peter's confession was that he was the son of God, not God.If jesus told mary to not touch him because he has not gone to his father, (in his resurrected state), then how would he go back to himself?Jesus said that he had a God and Father that was also our God and Father - John 20:17When I bring up certain scriptures to defend the trinity...they blow me away with questions...How do you defend the trinity?
 
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Alpha and Omega

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I was raised to believe in the trinity...never did understand it completely. But there are a lot of questions that I get asked that I can not answer....If God and Jesus are the same...thenDid Jesus pray to himself in the garden?Did Jesus sit on the right hand of himself in heaven?Peter's confession was that he was the son of God, not God.If jesus told mary to not touch him because he has not gone to his father, (in his resurrected state), then how would he go back to himself?When I bring up certain scriptures to defend the trinity...they blow me away with questions...How do you defend the trinity?
It is probably the most difficult theological question to answer. The facts are these trinity is never mentioned in the Bible. Some will say that trinity and Godhead are one in the same but this is not true. Essentially Jesus is God, but God can come in many forms. Because he is God there is no restrictions on his power. It is very difficult to explain and I have done a poor job explaining above. So to those that ask questions about the trinity are talking about an entirely foreign subject to Biblical truth.
 

Christina

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I dont think we will ever fully understand this in our flesh bodies but I try to think of it as body, mind and soul.. we are made in the image of God we have three parts the flesh body our spirit/soul body and our mind/heart . Each part works separate yet together. Example my flesh craves a candy bar.. my mind says No you dont need it to much sugar and calories.....My spirit says Lord give me the strength to resist but with God he can separate these parts one part became fully flesh (the hebrews called this a part spark) in his flesh he had the same type relation with God the father that we have with God. Not until his baptism when the Holy Ghost in the form of a Dove came on him when John baptised him... was he given the full knowledge of God (think Pentecost) So my answer to some of setfree's question asked her is that no in his flesh he was praying to father same as we do ...Once in the flesh he became a new kind of trinity Body, mind, and soul he could only relate to his higher self as a flesh person The bible makes it very clear he was fully (wholey) flesh That's my take anyway
 

Albert Finch

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Scriptures Showing The Trinity1 John 3:9 No one who is born of GOD will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in him; he cannot go on sinning, because he has been born of GOD 1 John 2:28 & 29 And now, dear children, continue in HIM, so that when HE appears {that is JESUS} we may be confident and unashamed before HIM at HIS coming. If you know that HE is righteous, you know that everyone who does what is right has been born of HIM / CHRIST {context of these Scriptures is CHRIST} John 3:8 So it is with everyone born of the SPIRITThe above three Scriptures show that all THREE Persons of the God-head (the Trinity) have a role to play in a human becoming Born Again. ******** Acts 2:24 But GOD RAISED HIM from the dead Acts 10:40 but GOD RAISED HIM from the dead on the third day and caused Him to be seen Romans 8:11 And if the SPIRIT of Him WHO RAISED JESUS from the dead is living in you John 2:19 JESUS answered them, “Destroy this temple and I WILL RAISE IT AGAIN in three days” The above Scriptures show that all Three Persons of the God-head (the Trinity) had a role to play in Jesus Christ being raised from the dead. ******** Romans 4:17 …He is our father in the sight of God, in who he believe – the GOD WHO GIVES LIFE to the dead and calls things that are not … 1 Timothy 6:13 In the sight of GOD, WHO GIVES LIFE to everything John 5:21 For just as the FATHER raises the dead and GIVES THEM LIFE, even so the SON GIVES LIFE TO WHOM HE IS PLEASED to give it John 6:63 The SPIRIT GIVES LIFE; the flesh counts for nothing 2 Corinthians 3:6 …for the letter kills, but the SPIRIT GIVES LIFE Here is yet another example of all Three Persons of the God-head (all Three Persons of the Trinity) having a part in the life of the Born Again Believer. God the Father gives us life, as much as Jesus Christ does, as much as the Holy Spirit does. ******** Albert Finchhttp://www.thekeys2kingdom.com
 

Jordan

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God = Three Persons? That sounds completely incorrect. Scripture says there is only one God. (Malachi 2:10, Mark 12:32, I Corinthians 8:6, Ephesians 4:6. I Timothy 2:5, James 2:19) God has many roles, but is one person.
 

mikev

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I was raised to believe in the trinity...never did understand it completely. But there are a lot of questions that I get asked that I can not answer....If God and Jesus are the same...thenDid Jesus pray to himself in the garden?Did Jesus sit on the right hand of himself in heaven?Peter's confession was that he was the son of God, not God.If jesus told mary to not touch him because he has not gone to his father, (in his resurrected state), then how would he go back to himself?When I bring up certain scriptures to defend the trinity...they blow me away with questions...How do you defend the trinity?
It is probably the most difficult theological question to answer. The facts are these trinity is never mentioned in the Bible. Some will say that trinity and Godhead are one in the same but this is not true. Essentially Jesus is God, but God can come in many forms. Because he is God there is no restrictions on his power. It is very difficult to explain and I have done a poor job explaining above. So to those that ask questions about the trinity are talking about an entirely foreign subject to Biblical truth.
Alpha and OmegaThere are many other interesting questions that people ask in trying to understand the Trinity. You are certainly not alone in not understanding this doctrine. And, as stated more than once, it is very difficult to explain. The less one understands something the more difficult it is to explain.Many have stated that the word “Trinity” does not appear in the Bible. Why then would we want to promote, defend, and try to explain a word that is not in the Scriptures? I mean no disrespect to anyone’s beliefs – we are all accountable for our own choices and decisions. I just wanted to add some food for thought, concerning those "interesting questions."One of those “interesting questions” is about his birth. Jesus was born. Mary was pregnant, and then she had a baby. After he was born, after the cord was cut, they wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger. Was he God at that point? If not, when did he “become” God? God warned Joseph of Herod’s evil plan. If the child Jesus was God, why didn’t Jesus warn Joseph? The Bible indicates that Jesus didn’t receive spirit until he was about thirty years old.Another interesting question is from I timothy where it says, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Thus it shows 3, God, mankind (men), and Jesus. Galatians also says, "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." There are those who say that God became a man, a human being – that Jesus was both God and man. But another one of those “interesting questions” is when Jesus himself, in John 10, was about to be stoned to death. He asked them why they wanted to stone him. They said, because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” He did not respond to that accusation by saying, “Yes, you are right, I am God.” Instead he reminded them of Psalm 82 where it talks about people (human beings) being “gods.” And then, he went on to say that if the Scriptures called them “gods,” why do you say I am blaspheming because I said I am the son of God?That question about “who was he praying to in the garden” has other implications as well. Jesus himself said, “Nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” He was praying to the Father, and what he said, distinctly and clearly, shows two separate wills, not two identical wills. Jesus made the Father’s will his will. He said that he came not to do his own will, but the will of the Father Who sent him.In this thread, Watt said, “Everything that is true about GOD is true about THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. But, Jesus died; so does that mean that the Father can die too? The Bible says that God raised Jesus from the dead. Can one part of the Trinity die? If so, then all three parts can die. Since God raised Jesus, when one part of the Trinity dies, it will take one of the other two to raise the part that died?I do not wish to argue, and I’m not trying to be facetious This is a very sensitive issue to many Christians. I have heard some call the doctrine of the “Trinity,” the cornerstone of Christianity, or the foundation of Christianity. I personally believe the resurrection of Jesus Christ to be the cornerstone of Christianity. And, in the book of Acts, the early Church consistently preached, not the “Trinity,” but rather, they preached the resurrection of Jesus Christ.There will be continued arguments and debates on this topic until Christ returns. Until then, we ought to at least try to use words and terms that are found in the Scriptures, and try our best to understand what the Scriptures say, and not twist them around and then exclaim that the Scriptures say something that they really don’t say at all. Mike
 
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Jordan

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Alpha and OmegaThere are many other interesting questions that people ask in trying to understand the Trinity. You are certainly not alone in not understanding this doctrine. And, as stated more than once, it is very difficult to explain. The less one understands something the more difficult it is to explain.Many have stated that the word “Trinity” does not appear in the Bible. Why then would we want to promote, defend, and try to explain a word that is not in the Scriptures? I mean no disrespect to anyone’s beliefs – we are all accountable for our own choices and decisions. I just wanted to add some food for thought, concerning those "interesting questions."One of those “interesting questions” is about his birth. Jesus was born. Mary was pregnant, and then she had a baby. After he was born, after the cord was cut, they wrapped him in swaddling clothes and laid him in a manger. Was he God at that point? If not, when did he “become” God? God warned Joseph of Herod’s evil plan. If the child Jesus was God, why didn’t Jesus warn Joseph? The Bible indicates that Jesus didn’t receive spirit until he was about thirty years old.Another interesting question is from I timothy where it says, "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus." Thus it shows 3, God, mankind (men), and Jesus. Galatians also says, "Now a mediator is not a mediator of one, but God is one." There are those who say that God became a man, a human being – that Jesus was both God and man. But another one of those “interesting questions” is when Jesus himself, in John 10, was about to be stoned to death. He asked them why they wanted to stone him. They said, because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God.” He did not respond to that accusation by saying, “Yes, you are right, I am God.” Instead he reminded them of Psalm 82 where it talks about people (human beings) being “gods.” And then, he went on to say that if the Scriptures called them “gods,” why do you say I am blaspheming because I said I am the son of God?That question about “who was he praying to in the garden” has other implications as well. Jesus himself said, “Nevertheless not my will, but thine, be done.” He was praying to the Father, and what he said, distinctly and clearly, shows two separate wills, not two identical wills. Jesus made the Father’s will his will. He said that he came not to do his own will, but the will of the Father Who sent him.In this thread, Watt said, “Everything that is true about GOD is true about THE FATHER, THE SON, AND THE HOLY SPIRIT. But, Jesus died; so does that mean that the Father can die too? The Bible says that God raised Jesus from the dead. Can one part of the Trinity die? If so, then all three parts can die. Since God raised Jesus, when one part of the Trinity dies, it will take one of the other two to raise the part that died?I do not wish to argue, and I’m not trying to be facetious This is a very sensitive issue to many Christians. I have heard some call the doctrine of the “Trinity,” the cornerstone of Christianity, or the foundation of Christianity. I personally believe the resurrection of Jesus Christ to be the cornerstone of Christianity. And, in the book of Acts, the early Church consistently preached, not the “Trinity,” but rather, they preached the resurrection of Jesus Christ.There will be continued arguments and debates on this topic until Christ returns. Until then, we ought to at least try to use words and terms that are found in the Scriptures, and try our best to understand what the Scriptures say, and not twist them around and then exclaim that the Scriptures say something that they really don’t say at all. Mike
Mike Verdicchio, with all due respect, The bible clearly says that Lord Jesus Christ is God.John 1:1 - In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 14:8-9 - Philip saith unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Show us the Father?John 10:30 - I and my Father are one.On top of that to confirm Christ is God... We have these scriptures to support the above scripture.Hebrews 4:15 - For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin.I Peter 2:22 - Who did no sin, neither was guile found in his mouth:I John 3:5 - And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.II Corinthians 5:21 - For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.--------------------------------------------------------So how can human have no sin? Can God sin? The answer is NO! Now what?John 1:14 - And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 

cedarhart

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This is not so difficult to understand...........The "Trinity" is a man-made word that represents 3 different roles.God, The Father, is an entity of infinite energy. We cannot comprehend Him. In order to have a "form", He became flesh so that we would be able to relate to Him. Christ is a part of that entity of energy in human form. "If you've seen the Son, you've seen the Father." This is also why Christ eludes to being "around" prior to this age. In Heaven, Lucifer wanted to be this image/form, instead of Christ and declared mutiny. There is God's "Ruach" or breath of life that is put into a form to hold it, the Soul. The Soul to be here, must have a flesh body to be in, as we do. My understanding of the Holy Spirit is that it is a tiny minscule/nano part of that energy and is given to us in the form of the "Spirit" so that we are able to bond with Father at will. This is a gift that must be petitioned from Father and is separate from our Soul/Spirit. So, the Soul houses our intellect, our Spirit. Flesh bodies house the Soul/Spirit. Upon request, Father gives us the Holy Spirit out of love for us and us for Him. This is the Trinity. The Father, Son, and Holy Spirit really are one as a whole yet can divide into separate roles.
 

Copper25

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John 1:1) In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.John 1:14) And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.So accoding to scripture, the WORD, which is God, came in the flesh, and dwelt.Now who is the Word?Revelation 19:11) And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. 12) His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. 13) And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.16) And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS.So thus the conclusion we can CLEARLY draw without a doubt is that Jesus is God.AgainRevelation 21:6) And he said unto me, It is done. I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end. I will give unto him that is athirst of the fountain of the water of life freely.Revelations 1:8) I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the ending, saith the Lord, which is, and which was, and which is to come, the Almighty.Revelation 1:17) And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last: Revelation 1:18) I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.Now I ask of you truly, do you still not see, any of you which deny the trinity and deny that Jesus IS God?IF you still deny, then you continue to press against the obvious truth that I have laid in front of your face, you are trusting in your own understanding, and like many others that deny that Jesus is God, you do err greatly.side note, the Holy Spirit is GodGod exist in three persons