Luke 16 the rich man in hell lift up his eyes in torment

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Ezra

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we are all or should be familiar with Luke 16 . . is the literally or fiction /parable ?
i take it at face value /real .the reason i ask this i attended a rev meeting the evangelist as preaching out of REV chapter 20 .the great white throne judgement . he mentioned over his years. having people come up and say Hell is not real. i read my Bible it is real . just out of curiosity .what saith the posters ?
 

Helen

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we are all or should be familiar with Luke 16 . . is the literally or fiction /parable ?
i take it at face value /real .the reason i ask this i attended a rev meeting the evangelist as preaching out of REV chapter 20 .the great white throne judgement . he mentioned over his years. having people come up and say Hell is not real. i read my Bible it is real . just out of curiosity .what saith the posters ?

What does he/ you mean by "real"?
Tangible reality as a tree is real.
Or spiritually 'real' ...?
 
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Ezra

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HELL the Bible calls it the Lake of fire . it is real not fake.it is place of torment weeping gnashing of teeth and unquenchable fire
 
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CoreIssue

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HELL the Bible calls it the Lake of fire . it is real not fake.it is place of torment weeping gnashing of teeth and unquenchable fire

The lake of fire his future. Hell is sewn into the lake at the whites own judgment. There is eternal torment.
 

CoreIssue

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we are all or should be familiar with Luke 16 . . is the literally or fiction /parable ?
i take it at face value /real .the reason i ask this i attended a rev meeting the evangelist as preaching out of REV chapter 20 .the great white throne judgement . he mentioned over his years. having people come up and say Hell is not real. i read my Bible it is real . just out of curiosity .what saith the posters ?
Hell is absolutely real. So is heaven, Angels, fallen Angels and Demons.
 
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Helen

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HELL the Bible calls it the Lake of fire . it is real not fake.it is place of torment weeping gnashing of teeth and unquenchable fire

I didn't say it was...I SAID what was THEIR or your definition of "is it real"...

Real , as in WHAT ..TANGIBLE or otherwise ? , what does REAL MEAN ?? What do you mean when you say REAL????
 
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Nancy

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Ah, tough subject. I know Helen's views on Hell...well, for the most part. But, there is much confusion with the terms, "Hell, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus." I tend to believe that the fire itself is everlasting but, not so much the body - not being consumed. I believe they perish in the fire, poof, disintegrated! Yes, then we have the worm that never dies...I have no idea what is meant by the worm.
Who knows, maybe my "beliefs" of Hell, in general here, could be influenced by me not being able to imagine such a good God doing this but then, He is also just! So, I guess, I should just say...I don't know. :)
 

FHII

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I believe it's real: both hell and this story. If it wasn't real why would Jesus use it to teach? If it's a parable it's still grounded in truth. If Lazarus wasn't with Abraham with a gulf between him and the rich man (again, I believe it's true) then certainly the setting is true.

Jesus used parables concerning farmers, wedding banquets and rich men with servants. I believe them to be true also, but even if they are made up parables meant to make a point, the setting isn't fantasy. They are things that happened in everyday life.... Thus, I believe the setting here to be true also.

Ezra, I don't think he'll is the lake of fire. Revelation says death and he'll were thrown into the lake of fire. Doesnt seem possible they are the same.
 
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Ezra

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I believe it's real: both hell and this story. If it wasn't real why would Jesus use it to teach? If it's a parable it's still grounded in truth. If Lazarus wasn't with Abraham with a gulf between him and the rich man (again, I believe it's true) then certainly the setting is true.

Jesus used parables concerning farmers, wedding banquets and rich men with servants. I believe them to be true also, but even if they are made up parables meant to make a point, the setting isn't fantasy. They are things that happened in everyday life.... Thus, I believe the setting here to be true also.

Ezra, I don't think he'll is the lake of fire. Revelation says death and he'll were thrown into the lake of fire. Doesnt seem possible they are the same.
we use the term hell==Hades=grave
 

Helen

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Very wise answer @Nancy Post #9
Neither does anyone else!! ( though they pretend that they do.)

Who are we to pretend that we understand the DEPTH of the wonderful word of God.
 

Nancy

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Very wise answer @Nancy
Neither does anyone else!! ( though they pretend that they do.)

Who are we to pretend that we understand the DEPTH of the wonderful word of God.

As far as Hell is concerned, I am pretty sure this thread will draw all kinds of beliefs, explanations...maybe a video or two, ha! It will be interesting!
"Very wise answer"
Oh I don't know about "wise" lol, but gee tanx :)
I don't think there ever was nor ever will be a human alive who
can know the depth and all the hidden pearls of wisdom in His Word. They can think they have all knowledge but, we know better ;) - only God has that! We are honest in our reply's and, there is always someone who will want to challenge us as to our beliefs...we know each other on here well enough to say that we are truly open to new
revelations, and corrections that are biblical and given in a loving tone.
xo
 

CoreIssue

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Ah, tough subject. I know Helen's views on Hell...well, for the most part. But, there is much confusion with the terms, "Hell, Hades, Gehenna, Tartarus." I tend to believe that the fire itself is everlasting but, not so much the body - not being consumed. I believe they perish in the fire, poof, disintegrated! Yes, then we have the worm that never dies...I have no idea what is meant by the worm.
Who knows, maybe my "beliefs" of Hell, in general here, could be influenced by me not being able to imagine such a good God doing this but then, He is also just! So, I guess, I should just say...I don't know. :)
Fire, body and worm are everlasting.

The Bible makes it clear they are in the lake for eternity.

The worm is a maggot. Maggots infest a dead body. If you've ever seen it is really nasty.

Worms do not cease until the body is consumed. So if the body is eternal so are the maggots.

So the maggots are proof the belief in annihilation is false.
 
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Enoch111

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i read my Bible it is real . just out of curiosity .what saith the posters ?
Hell (Gehenna) as just as real, eternal, and tangible as Heaven. Had there been no Hell, there would have been no need for Christ, the crucifixion, the resurrection, and the Gospel.

However, your reference to Luke 16 -- which is a divine revelation of the afterlife -- is a reference to Sheol/Hades, not Gehenna (the Lake of Fire). People who hate the doctrine of Hell call this a parable, but that is simply not true.

One of the reasons there is much confusion about Hell is because the word "hell" has been used for three different places: (1) Gehenna (the actual Hell), (2) Sheol/Hades (the abode of departed souls and spirit in the lower parts of the earth), and (3) Tartarus [the subterranean prison of the evil angels which sinned before the Fall (by co-habiting with human women), and are now chained and awaiting their final judgment].

Before Christ spoke about Gehenna and Hades, the Old Testament spoke many times about Sheol. However, once again it was mistranslated as "the grave" and thus the cults adopted the false doctrine of Soul Sleep.

When Christ presented the narrative of the Rich Man and Lazarus, He was speaking about a real incident and its aftermath. Both died and their bodies were placed in their respective graves. But both went to Sheol/Hades, except to DIFFERENT COMPARTMENTS or regions in the heart of the earth. One region was reserved for the unrighteous dead, the other region -- called Abraham's Bosom -- was reserved for the righteous dead (the OT saints). There was a very wide gulf or chasm between these two regions, but the souls and spirits could communicate back and forth. The unrighteous dead were in torments of Hell, whereas the righteous were at peace. And there was no crossing over.

When Christ rose from the dead, He took all the OT saints from Sheol/Hades to Heaven to remain in the New Jerusalem and be perfected. However, the unrighteous dead still go to Hades (which for all practical purposes is Hell) until the Great White Throne Judgment. At a future time there will be a resurrection unto damnation, those souls and spirits will receive imperishable bodies, and then they will be judged according to their works. Since their names will be absent from the Lamb's Book of Life, they will be cast into the Lake of Fire, where there is weeping and gnashing of teeth, where their worm dieth not, and the fire is never quenched.

Why would a loving God create a place of such intense torment? Jesus said that Hell (Gehenna) was created for the devil and his angels. And that is why it is imperative that the Gospel be preached to every person. And God now commands all men everywhere to (a) repent and (b) believe on the Lord Jesus Christ and be saved. God wants no one in Hell, but when they reject Christ, they choose Hell. God does not elect or predestine some for Heaven and the majority for Hell. That is a damnable doctrine. But as Christ said, there are relatively few who enter the narrow gate (Christ) and choose the narrow way (surrender to God and Christ). Many prefer the wide gate (man-made religions) and the broad way (the ways of the world).

The cults and theological liberals deny and reject the doctrine of Hell, and today many evangelicals and fundamentalists avoid preaching on Hell and its reality. But Christ -- who is God -- is the one who created Hell, and also spoke about it in no uncertain terms, therefore we are to believe Him and not the liars who manufacture their own dogmas.

There is no second chance after death, there is no Purgatory, there is no transmigration of souls, there is no reincarnation. Those are all lies from the devil, who knows perfectly well that his eternal doom is sealed in the Lake of Fire (along with the Antichrist, the False Prophet, and all the evil angels) and would therefore love to drag all humanity to Hell.
 

Episkopos

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Too real. Maybe Lazarus' name was altered from Jehoshaphat or something to protect his identity. As in..."this is based on a true story."

The kicker in all this is that people will not be easily warned of their impending judgment...even if someone is raised from the dead. The wise don't need the warning and the foolish don't heed the warning. So in life you give people the freedom to be wrong.

A delusion cannot be reasoned away.
 
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Davy

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HELL the Bible calls it the Lake of fire . it is real not fake.it is place of torment weeping gnashing of teeth and unquenchable fire

This is why for English speaking peoples, I recommend a 1611 KJV Bible, because Dr. James Strong assigned a number to each KJV word, and provided a Hebrew and Greek Lexicon so you could look up the definitions that are closer to the actual Bible manuscripts.

Not each case of the word "hell" in the KJV NT means the same place. In the NT Greek, sometimes it means Hades, the heavenly abode of the wicked like where the rich man of Luke 16 was carried to. And sometimes it is from the Hebrew 'Hinnom' which was a valley outside the walls of Jerusalem where garbage was burned with smoke rising perpetually. And then in 2 Peter 2:4, it is the Greek word tartaroo, which was the Greek term for the deepest area of the abyss.

So you have to be careful, and look up the Greek to grasp which place is meant. The "lake of fire" is not the abode of haides, nor tartaroo. The "lake of fire" is a one-time event after God's future Great White Throne judgment. The abode of hell called haides goes into that future "lake of fire" and is destroyed, along with Satan and the wicked.

So was Christ's story of Lazarus and the rich man real? Maybe not the characters, but the places, most definitely real. When the believing malefactor crucified with our Lord Jesus asked our Lord to remember him when Jesus came into His Kingdom, Jesus told him that day he would be with Him in Paradise (Luke 23:43). And Apostle Paul said he knew a man once who was caught up to Paradise (most likely was Paul, as he was at one time stoned and left for dead. Likely a near-death experience.)

God's Word gives us plenty of teaching on what happens at flesh death, and where our spirit goes. Ecclesiastes 12:5-7 shows that our spirit (with soul, but doesn't say) is connected to our flesh body via a "silver cord". This would explain how a near death experience can happen with someone still surviving to tell about it. If that silver cord is not severed, then death doesn't happen. It also reveals the existence of two different dimensions of existence per God's Word. The other dimension where God and the angels live is just as real as this earthly dimension we live in. The difference is that God has set sensory bounds on us who live in this earthy one. Yet, as shown in His Word when He revealed Himself to His Old Testament prophets, or to His Apostles after His resurrection, those in the Heavenly dimension can exist and live in both dimensions.

And this will be the future revealing on this earth when Jesus returns, the limitations of this flesh world being cast off, with both... dimensions revealed right here on earth, both in the same time and space. We will live an angelic type existence upon this earth.