Kingdoms

CoreIssue said:

Godly men of the line itself.

It does not say they produced giants. It says giants were there at the time.

Giants are found throughout the Old Testament.

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So a Christian cohabits with a hooker and a giant pops out?

CoreIssue said:

There were no Christians until the resurrection.

It does not say that parents are of the Giants. But I doubt they were believers.

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Sons of God = ?

CoreIssue said:

I already told you. Sons of the believing line of Seth.

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So they had sex with Canaanites and giants popped out?

CoreIssue said:

Angels are angels when it comes to the issues of marriage and reproduction.

To say they suddenly can reproduce is to say they gave themselves the power to create life, because sperm and eggs are life.

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What if fallen angels decided to clone humans? Scientists do cloning experiments all the time. They are not producing life, they are manipulating it.

As well Angels are not physical. So you're saying they could create themselves physical bodies. And on top of that only male bodies.

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I think they already have the ability to appear as men. Think of the holy angels in Sodom before they destroyed Sodom. They must have had the appearance of men--the text gives us every indication that they looked just like men.

Another problem is the KJV mistranslates Angels as sons of God.

Jesus is the son of God. Adam was son of God. Saints are sons of God. Meaning human.

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Then all of the other translations get it wrong as well--including the 1975 NIV.

In your link your Number one is correct.

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Did you read the reasons why the author of the article rejected the first option? I thought his reasoning was sound--as it was through the rest of the article.

Aliens? So you're saying God created other beings on other planets?

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No, I am saying that what people THINK are "aliens" are, in reality, demonic manifestations. I have read a number of accounts and it certainly sounds like a confrontation with evil spirits of some sort. The convincing bit of evidence for me, is that some who have been "abducted" (and there are way too many to dismiss them as being the ravings of lunatics) were Christians. When some of the Christians rebuked the "aliens" in Jesus' name, the "aliens" disappeared.

CoreIssue said:

I already told you. Sons of the believing line of Seth.

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Yes, 100%

But that is too simple for most people, so they make up a load of old ridiculous garbage fairy tales..

I just notice this topic, and reading the OP, and looking at the last few posts ..... oh well.

but, these sons of God did not come from seth. there was plenty of People around even before Seth came on the scene. Cain let us know that there was more people on the planet beside Adam, Eve, Cain and Abel. Genesis 4:14 "Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, [that] every one that findeth me shall slay me”. so who are the "every one?". and two Cain had a wife when he went to Nod that he “knew” or had sex with before Seth came on the scene. These people must be accounted for.

Also, Giants in the bible was normal tall men, from 7-13 feet or so tall. And all can trace their genealogy back to normal humans. Example, Goliath, the Philistine, who was just over 9 feet tall can be trace back to Ham, one of Noah boys.
Genesis 10:6 "And the sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, and Phut, and Canaan.
Genesis 10:7 "And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabtah, and Raamah, and Sabtecha: and the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
Genesis 10:8 "And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be a mighty one in the earth.
enesis 10:9 "He was a mighty hunter before the LORD: wherefore it is said, Even as Nimrod the mighty hunter before the LORD.
Genesis 10:10 "And the beginning of his kingdom was Babel, and Erech, and Accad, and Calneh, in the land of Shinar.
Genesis 10:11 "Out of that land went forth Asshur, and builded Nineveh, and the city Rehoboth, and Calah,
Genesis 10:12 "And Resen between Nineveh and Calah: the same [is] a great city.
Genesis 10:13 "And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim,
Genesis 10:14 "And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (out of whom came Philistim,) and Caphtorim.

Here, in verse 14 above, “Philistim” is the Philistine, here is the genealogy line clearly seen.
1 Chronicles 1:8 "The sons of Ham; Cush, and Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
1 Chronicles 1:9 "And the sons of Cush; Seba, and Havilah, and Sabta, and Raamah, and Sabtecha. And the sons of Raamah; Sheba, and Dedan.
1 Chronicles 1:10 "And Cush begat Nimrod: he began to be mighty upon the earth.
1 Chronicles 1:11 "And Mizraim begat Ludim, and Anamim, and Lehabim, and Naphtuhim,
1 Chronicles 1:12 "And Pathrusim, and Casluhim, (of whom came the Philistines,) and Caphthorim.

There it is. So Goliath, the Philistine came from normal people, as all Giants that are mintion in the bible.

And three, in the book of Genesis chapter 6, it tell us in plain English who the giants, these Nephilim, who they were.

PICJAG.

CoreIssue said:

Destruction of the heavens and earth.

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The earth will never be destroyed,it will be rejuvenated to back like it was ,before He destroyed it the first time,and I'm not talking about the flood.

If one were to understand the 3 Heaven and earth ages,the Word will open up ,well at least it did for me,as everything became so much clearer.

Genesis 1:1 "In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth."

There are two bodies mentioned in this verse; the heaven and the earth. It simply stated a fact and left the time factor out. The verse not only did not say when, but left it totally to our imagination, as to the eternal span of time, and how the creation took place.

In Proverbs 8:22 we read of wisdom speaking through Solomon. Wisdom is God for all wisdom is of God. "The Lord possessed me in the beginning of His ways, before the works of old." What works of old could this be? It is the old earth age, spoken of in Revelation 12:1-6.

Proverbs 8:23; "I was set up from everlasting, from the beginning, or ever the earth was." This is stating that wisdom was with God, and He possessed me.

Proverbs 8:24; "When there were no depths, I was brought forth; when there were no fountains abounding with water." Before there was any need of an abyss, or pit, and the water to fill them, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:25; "Before the mountains were settled, before the hills was I brought forth:"

Before the earth even took on it's present form, with the high mountains and rolling hills, God's wisdom was there. Friend, God's wisdom played His part in the creation of this earth, and all wisdom comes from God.

Proverbs 8:26; "While as yet he had not made the earth, nor the fields, nor the high part [beginning] of the dust of the world."

God was there in wisdom before that first little atom, or speck of dust of the earth was formed. Before the laws of God that control the energy forces came into being, God's wisdom was there.

Proverbs 8:27; "When he prepared the heavens, I was there: when he set a compass [circle] upon the face of the depth:"

Proverbs 8:28; "And when established the clouds above: when he strengthened the fountains of the deep:"

Proverbs 8:29; "When He gave to the sea His decree, that the waters should not pass His commandment: when He appointed the fountains of the earth:"

In other words, there was land, and oceans, and fields and lakes, and God set His commandment that they should be separated through the "compass" which He set. Today we call it "gravity". This is the force which separates all water from dry land. When the waves hit the rocks of the shoreline, they resend back into the sea by the gravitational forces of the earth.

God allowed Job to be tested by both Satan and his fellow man, in the first thirty seven chapters of the Book of Job. However, after 37 chapters of man's nonsense, ramblings, and bad advice by those around Job, God spoke to Job.

Job 38:1, 2; "Then the Lord answered Job out of the whirlwind, and said, Who is this that darkeneth counsel by words without knowledge?"

Job had been tested to the point of losing His entire family, all his property, and had been inflicted by sores and sickness, yet, he did not curse God. He was in a poor frame of mind when God again came to Job.

Job 38:3; Gird up now thy loins like a man; for I will demand of thee, and answer thou Me."

God told Job to straighten up and be a man, and listen to what He is about to tell Job. Then God spells out to Job how He laid out the foundations of the earth and the heaven, and all matters concerning them.

Then for the rest of Job 38 and continuing in Job 39 we can see the same wisdom we read about in Proverbs 8. God told Job how He put the universe all together. Our God is infinite in wisdom and power, Yet His love for His children is so great that He allowed Himself to be killed as a man, on the cross at Calvary. In this love that He demonstrated for His children, He made it possible that we could approach Him as His child for our every need.

This humbled Job before God, as it should to each of us, and He fell apart [Job 40]. God once again told Job to stand "like a man, and give answer to Him".

Genesis 1:2 "And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep."

Who is that Spirit of God? He is the Holy Spirit, and it is God's Spirit that moved upon the face of the waters.

In the Hebrew translation of the word, "was", as used in this verse "...the earth was without form,..."; in the original text it reads "became without form...". This same mistranslation of the word "became", and turning it into the word "was" is also present in Genesis 2:7. It should read there; "..and man became a living soul."

was
1961 hayah
hayah (haw-yaw); a primitive root [compare OT:1933]; to exist, i.e. be or become, come to pass (always emphatic, and not a mere copula or auxiliary):KJV - beacon, altogether, be (-come), accomplished, committed, like), break, cause, come (to pass), do, faint, fall, follow, happen, have, last, pertain, quit (oneself-), require, use.

void
922
bohuw (bo'-hoo); from an unused root (meaning to be empty); a vacuity, i.e. (superficially) an undistinguishable ruin:
KJV - emptiness, void.
The correct Hebrew translation from the Massoretic Hebrew text for the words, "without form"is "tohu-va bohu" in the Hebrew Strong's dictionary. So we see that the earth was not "created without form", but it "became [tohu] without form and void". Lets go to Strong's Hebrew dictionary, reference number 1961 to verify the word "was", that we read in this verse. "Yahah, haw-yaw; a prime root, to exit; to become, or come to pass." [#1961]


Excerpt from The Companion Bible Appendix 8:

The word "without form" (Hebrew tohu) is used of a subsequent event which, we know not how long after the Creation, befell the primitive creation of Genesis 1:1. It occurs in Genesis 1:2. Deuteronomy 32:10. 1Samuel 12:21 (twice). Job 6:18; 12:24; 26:7. Psalm 107:40. Isaiah 24:10; 29:21; 34:11; 40:17, 23; 41:29; 44:9; 45:18, 19; 49:4; 59:4. Jeremiah 4:23.
The Hebrew bohu, rendered "void", means desolate, and occurs in Genesis 1:2. Isaiah 34:11. Jeremiah 4:23. The two words together occur in Genesis 1:2. Isaiah 34:11. Jeremiah 4:23.

end Companion Bible excerpt
"Tohu" of the earth, then means that total destruction had come to pass upon the earth. The second "was" in the verse is in italics type because there is no verb "to be" in the Hebrew language. One of the problems in translating the Hebrew into English is that the verb, "to be" is not distinguished from the verb, "to become".

At the end of Genesis 1:1 the first earth age ceased to exist in its previous form. God created the earth to be inhabited, and then He destroyed it. There was an entire earth age that existed between verses one and two of Genesis. This first earth age is spoken of in II Peter, Jeremiah, Proverbs, and Jude. We will look into these Scripture passages and try to understand the deeper meaning of our Father's Word.

If you don't understand that there was a first earth age, you will not understand why God would say in Malachi 1:3; "And I hated Esau...". God hated Esau even while he was in his mother's womb. It was in the first earth age that God hated Esau, because of what Esau did in that first earth age. It was what Esau's soul did in that age that so angered God; and that anger passed on to the embryo of Esau, when his soul entered into this earth age. See also Romans 9:13.

This verse, then, does verify the fact that our earth is older than 6,000 years old. To be more exact, it's probably many millions of years old. However, no matter how old this earth is, it is the only place we can live on in the flesh and survive. We do not worship God's creation; we are to worship the creator, our Heavenly Father. God is in control of all of His creation, and He destroyed all forms of life that lived on the earth from the first earth age.

In Isaiah 45:18; "For thus saith the Lord That created the heavens; God Himself That formed the earth and made it; He hath established it He created it not in vain, He formed it to be inhabited: "I am the Lord; and there is none else."

This is God speaking as Isaiah is writing it down, and He is telling us that when He created the earth, it was not in vain. "Vain" is the same Hebrew word that we saw in Genesis 1:2, which was given as "void". God created this earth to be lived on, and to be inhabited. Genesis 1:1told us that God created the earth to be inhabited. The "Tohu", the "destruction", was not part of the creation plan of verse one, but came after the fall of Satan when one third of all the souls followed Satan in the first earth age, in verse two.

We find more documentation concerning the first earth age in II Peter 3. In fact we can read of all three earth ages, as Peter becomes a witness to the fact.

II Peter 3:5; "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:"

The earth came about by "the word of God", God's speech. Some ministers preach that this was Noah's flood, well let's see.

II Peter 3:6; "Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:"

Perished means total destruction. "The world [age] that then was" ended in total ruin through another flood that was prior to Noah's day. There were no survivors of that flood; no animals, no man, no insects, nor vegetation survived in any form. Everything perished! We know in Noah's flood that two of all life forms were saved.

II Peter 3:7; "But the heavens and the earth which are now, by the same word are dept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

This is the second heaven and earth age which we are living in now. This earth age will not be destroyed until God's time of judgment on the ungodly men of this earth age comes to a close. that time of perdition [destruction] is after the millennium, and after the judgment. Then will come the consuming fire. Hebrews 12:19 tells us that our God is that consuming fire.

II Peter 3:8; "But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day."

One week is 7000 years, and we are coming to the Sabbath of that week very shortly, which the common name for the next thousand years is "the Millennium age". The Millennium age is the thousand years after Jesus Christ returns to earth at the seventh trumpet to establish his kingdom here on earth. All souls at that time will not be in the flesh bodies, but in another dimension. They will exist in their incorruptible bodies, spoken of in I Corinthians 15:50-54.

Jeremiah 4:23; "I beheld the earth, and, lo it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light."

Here we get back to the same word that we saw earlier in Genesis 1:2; The Hebrew word "Tohu" for "void". In other words, God is saying, "I destroyed the first heaven and earth age." There simply was no life form existing on this earth at the close of the first earth age in any form.

Jeremiah 4:24; "I beheld the mountains, and lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly."

This is why the magnetic north is 90 miles off true north? God shook the earth and everything moved from its foundations at the time the destruction "tohu" took place.

Jeremiah 4:25; "I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled."

Did you get that? No man, no animals, and not even the birds were left alive. The earth was covered with water, and life could not exist. There was no boat floating around on the surface, for the span of time could have been for thousands of years, or a much greater time.

Jeremiah 4:26; "I beheld, and lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the Lord, and by His fierce anger."

In this flood there wasn't a tree or a blade of grass left with life in it. However, what about these "cities" that once existed? Yes there were cities at that time, and God's anger and fury against Satan, and the third of God's children that followed Satan, caused God to destroy that entire earth age, and all that was part of it.

That is what God meant in Hebrews 11:7 when He said, "I shook her once and know I'll shake her again." The only thing that will be left standing then, is that which is unshakeable, and it will only be those who have repented, and have Jesus Christ in their heart. They are those souls that were sealed in their minds, and did not bow to the Antichrist, his system, or take his name, nor his number.

Jeremiah 4:27; "For thus hath the Lord said, "The whole land shall be desolate; yet will I not make a full end."

God allowed the waters of the first earth age to recede, and from it came a condition whereby we can live in this second earth age. Each soul, or God's child, will pass through this flesh earth age once, and we have the choice to chose either light or darkness; Jesus Christ or Satan. When God created each soul and gave it free will, He cannot force that soul to love Him. You cannot buy love, or it will be a false love. God is looking for your tender love; from within your free soul. It is your choice.

So we have documented from the Bible that there was an earth age prior to this earth age we now live in. God created that first earth age in good standing to be inhabited, as it was written in Isaiah 45:18; then after this it became "without form and void" [in the Hebrew, "Tohu va bohu"].

Why? Because Satan brought sin into the world of that first earth age. and that sin was so great that one third of all God's children followed Satan, and that sin brought God's anger upon the whole world. It was then that Satan was sentenced to the death of his soul. This is why Satan is called the "son of perdition" in II Thessalonians 2:3, and John 17:12. Satan refused to repent, as God allowed him the time to get right with Him.

Verse three starts after the first earth age, after the overthrow by Satan, and after the total destruction of the first earth age and all life forms on it

CoreIssue said:

Well that was a lot of copy and paste.

But it does not change the fact that heavens and the earth will be reduced to atoms and then reform into a new heaven and earth.

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"n2 the light" just cut and pasted something that was, for me, much too long. Can't imagine that he/she really thought that would be convincing for anyone.

Beside that, Genesis 1:1 says "HEAVENS" not "heaven" (singular) as "n2the light" has misquoted.

CoreIssue said:

The language does not allow for cloning.

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I wouldn't expect it to do that. How would Moses even be able to express something like cloning?

Being able to appear as a man doesn't mean he has the physical body of a man.

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True, but they obviously had the appearance of real men (not some kind of half-transparent Caspar the Ghost).

I used the 1975 NIV. Sons of God is the correct interpretation. It does not mean Angels. It means in a relationship with God.

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In the Old Testament, it meant angels more often than not. Job 1:6;2:1 and 38:7 is referring to angels when the text says "sons of God". In addition, there is no indication in the Biblical text that the descendants of Seth were any more godly than any other people. The Flood of Noah undoubtedly wiped out the descendants of Seth as well as those of Cain. Just because God's holy angels do not marry or procreate doesn't mean that they are not capable of it, if they take the form of humans. Who were the sons of God and daughters of men in Genesis 6:1-4?

CoreIssue said:

He had no need to express it didn't exist back. And there is no evidence God ever used it.

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Are you so very sure that God never used it? Identical twins are natural clones. In any case, God has no particular need to use cloning and I was speaking of the fallen angels possibly using some kind of genetic technology.

Angels, God and demons can look like what ever they want to. But they didn't have flesh and blood, none of them except the second person of the Trinity in the incarnation.

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Jesus said that, in the Resurrection, we will be like the heavenly angels--if we are to have immortal, real physical bodies, of some sort, wouldn't that indicate that angels already have them?

You are using the KJV. Angels is one of the big reasons should not.
Job 1:6 New International Version (NIV)
6 One day the angels came to present themselves before the Lord, and Satan also came with them.

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I hardly ever use the KJV. The New American Standard says, "sons of God" and many other translations do as well. What is your objection? I said that the expression, "sons of God" in Genesis 6:2 was likely referring to angels and your post supports what I was saying rather than your assertion that "sons of God" referred only to humans.

The Bible makes it clear we will be like the Angels who are neither male or female.

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I am unaware of any place in the Bible where this assertion is made. I would agree that, if they were not going to reproduce, there would be no particular need for gender, but it definitely does not say that angels are neither male nor female.

The sons of God were those in a covenant relationship with God. Jesus is son of God, Adam is son of God and the saints are sons of God.

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Why would I have an argument with that? What I am defending is that it could well have been fallen angels about which Genesis 6:2 is speaking. That in the OT, that appears to be what "sons of God" is referencing.

We are adopted sons and daughters of God. We are called co-heirs in Christ. Angels are servants, not heirs.

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No argument from me on that statement, but, perhaps that is why certain fallen angels were locked up in the Abyss--because they dared to rebel from God's purpose and plan.