What Was Israel Ordained For?

Enoch111 said:

Absolutely not. In the context of Matthew 24 "the end" is the Second Coming of Christ. Which is far removed from the end of the world. Indeed the Second Coming is for the establishing of the Kingdom of God on earth. There are many events and much time between this and "the end of the age" (or the end of the world) which is just before the New Heavens and the New Earth are established.

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Are you saying there are three or four comings of Christ?

Davy said:

I will tell Islam what The Holy Spirit tells me to tell them, and same goes for the Jews, and for you if you be of either one of those.

Your questions are ignorant in light of my posts, because only Christians who remain faithful waiting on Lord Jesus' coming to gather them will be of the resurrection of life, and reign with Him in the future millennial time. So you can place the seed of Israel, the seed of Ishmael, and the seed of whomever you wish in relation to that wherever you want, for the only ones that will have Christ's Salvation will be Christians who believe on Jesus Christ as God's promised Saviour.

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So why make so much of the lost tribes of israel?

If as you rightly say only those who are Christians will be saved the tribes of isreal are an irrelevance.

Davy said:

So are you assuming that Ezek.39 passage is actually fulfilled after... Christ's future 1,000 years reign of Rev.20? that since Ezekiel 20 reveals the rebels of the seed of Israel will not enter into the land of Israel?

I tend to believe that both houses of Israel will be gathered back to the middle east, but not all of them will be allowed in the land of Israel, like Ezekiel 20 points to.

Ezek 20:33-38
33 As I live, saith the Lord GOD, surely with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out, will I rule over you:

34 And I will bring you out from the people, and will gather you out of the countries wherein ye are scattered, with a mighty hand, and with a stretched out arm, and with fury poured out.

35 And I will bring you into the wilderness of the people, and there will I plead with you face to face.

36 Like as I pleaded with your fathers in the wilderness of the land of Egypt, so will I plead with you, saith the Lord GOD.

37 And I will cause you to pass under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the covenant:

38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV

To me, that sounds like a gathering in 'probation' to lands just outside the land of Israel.

Ezekiel 44:23-24 shows the people will be taught the difference between the clean and unclean, the holy and the profane, and they will stand in judgment during that millennial time.

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Oh Davy, you are only reading what the translators want you to believe.

In Ez.20 God promises to bring those which are acceptable of the 12 tribes of Israel into the Soil of Israel, where they are living scattered throughout the whole earth. What is the soil of Israel? What does God's promise to teach the nation of Israel on the Mountains of Israel mean?

It means that God will plant them in soil from which they can draw their spiritual nourishment from while he will be teaching them about the things of the Kingdom of God, which will be centred around the foundational truths that come down out of Heaven as a rock that grows to become the highest mountain in Israel, far higher than all the mountain heights where the Israelites practiced their idolatrous worship in their rebellion against the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob.

In Ez.20:42, God promises that He will bring Israel into the earth that He said that He would show to Abraham in Genesis.12:1, which God Promised to Give to Abraham and his descendants in the Abrahamic Covenant.

The 1948 return to the land of some of Abraham's descendants in their own strength was a signpost that the Israelites were wanting to seek out their God, but sadly only on their terms. However, from the time that the fig tree budded, until when the Summer harvest season begins will be around 85-100 years duration and will depend on the early or late spring when the Fig Tree begins to send forth its leaves.

For Abraham's descendant to be a blessing to all of the nations of the earth such that the gentiles can grab hold of them to show the way to Mt. Zion to worship God in Righteous and Holiness, they must remain disbursed among the nations of the earth up and until the end of the Age of the Ages.

Any other understanding is not what God has revealed in His Prophetic word like in Ez.20.

Shalom

Davy said:

Ezek 20:38
38 And I will purge out from among you the rebels, and them that transgress against Me: I will bring them forth out of the country where they sojourn, and they shall not enter into the land of Israel: and ye shall know that I am the LORD.
KJV

He is especially pointing to these...

Zech 14:21
21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto the LORD of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of the LORD of hosts.
KJV

Along with those foreigners who crept in unawares, any that still reject Jesus when they see Him will not enter into the land of Israel.

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But the Hebrew root for the word translated as "land" has H:0119 as its base, which has the meaning of "soil" in the Hebrew Root H:0127, and to me H:0127 gives the impression of being "a fertile field" where God will scatter his seed in Israel and as found in other Ezekiel passages, God will then teach them about His Everlasting Kingdom and its statutes and requirements wherever they are living, scattered throughout the whole earth.

Ez.20:38 is not focused on the redeemed of Israel having to return to the land of Canaan, which is the manner in which the KJV has been translated.

The Israelites through their idolatrous worship of Idols had removed themselves from God's fertile field of Israel,Which now are the fertile fields of Jesus' teaching.

It all depends on whether or not we have a near or distant future contextual understanding of God's purposes for mankind.

Yes we can be planted in the fetile fields of Christ now, but we have to endure until the distant future to receive our inheritance.

Shalom

Davy said:

That return is not... happening today. That is not about Jews returning to the state of Israel in the middle east. That is about the gathering of the ten lost tribes of Israel, like Amos 9:8-11 points to.

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Davy you do need to dig a little deeper than the translations that you read and the commentaries that you read and inquire of the Lord for the meaning of what you read.

Shalom

Davy said:

Now you can go and fool the Biblically illiterate with your false interpretation of those passages, trying to make people believe those Scriptures have already been coming to pass with the return of just Jews to form today's state of Israel in the middle east, and even get them to send the orthodox Jews there FUNDS to build their new temple and do sacrifices again, but I'm not fooled by all that, because I study God's Word for myself with God's help.

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Davy, it is obvious that you did not read nor understood my previous posts as I made no reference to Judah in my post above only to Israel and the Israelites. The Amos.9:8 verse speaks of the House of Jacob being destroyed because of their idolatrous worship of Idols, in both the House of Israel and then in the House of Judah. At the moment as you have incorrectly pointed out, the broken stick is presently being joined back together in that the Jewish people look upon each other as only belonging to the House of Jacob and they are looking forward to the day when God will hear their cries and pleas and their repentance for their and their father's iniquities.

The Promised Land is no longer on the table for them to occupy and God still requires them to be scattered throughout the face of the fertile fields around the earth where they will act as Priests of the Lord who have been taught of the Lord on His statutes and requirements for Salvation to help the nations that live around them on their journey towards Mt Zion.

This is not a difficult thing to understand and all that I am doing is pointing out the signs that are there to see and observe.

As an example, Dan.9:26b will be completely fulfilled in around 25 years time just as we will also see played out the complete Rev.16:12-16 prophecy come to its completion as well. We have also seen the prophecies of Rev.16:17-21 come to there completion/end as well.

Now because you do not see them at present, does not make what I am posting wrong, it only means that you have not reached the same point in our respective understanding as each other. There are some things that you see clearly that I have not yet seen, just as their are some things that I see that you do not yet see.

Now to make the false claim that I am pushing for the return of the Jews to the Land of Canaan and support their claim that the Land of Canaan is theirs by God's promise, infers that I am misunderstanding the implication of the solemn covenant that God made to Abraham as a sign covenant that Abraham's descendants would receive the whole earth as their inheritance when everything is done and dusted. At present many of the Jews are worshiping the idol of the Promised Land instead of God which was also their idol back in Jesus' time while on the earth during His first advent. It is this desire that has driven Abraham's descendants to return to the Land of Canaan in their own strength and that God prophesied would happen in Gen.15:16. Daniel.11 also speaks of this and of other nations joining them who want the same outcome.

I also openly state that although the State of Israel today will allow the rebuilding of the Temple in Jerusalem, that Jesus told them that they would not have the means to complete this task. (Luke.14:28-30) But in saying that, the attempt to rebuild the temple in Jerusalem is the final trigger that will draw all of the nations to go up against Jerusalem to stop the temple from being completed because of the instability that it will cause in the region, and to assemble at Armageddon where the kings of the nations will be judged and then imprisoned in a pit for many days awaiting their final punishment. This judgement is because the Gentile Nations of the earth have been trampling all over God's sanctuary which is based on Mt Zion, for close on 2,300 years and presently through the secular introduction of oppressive laws against God's people and their choice to freely worship and assemble.

The initially reason why I posted in this thread was to point out that the English translations have been framed to give a "Promised Land" Perspective rather than a reflection of God's purposes to establish priests scattered throughout the whole earth to help bring in the harvest of the people who will "Believe in Him Whom He has sent."

Perhaps it is best to stop at this point and allow you time to process what I have written.

Shalom

Davy said:

Your writing a lot to try and deceive others here doesn't work on me. The two sticks of Israel joined per Ezekiel 37 is NOT... happening today. To say it is, is a huge... lie.

What is happening in today's state of Israel is the return of Jews from the house of Judah, not the ten lost tribes of Israel. You can BS many here who haven't studied their Bible history about God splitting old Israel into two separate kingdoms and houses, but I have studied it, and know what you're pushing is garbage from Judaism. God is not gathering Israel back to the holy land today, because today's Jews don't even know who or where the ten lost tribes of Israel are, in order for them to return. The majority of them today don't even know who they themselves are!

This is a Christian forum, and you should not be pushing the Jew's religion here.


Your trying to change the timeline of the Ezekiel 37 chapter is truly funny too!

This has never happened to this day... and will not until Jesus' 2nd coming...

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So be it Davy, but I am not pushing the Jew's religion as they are still worshipping the idol of the "Promised Land." I am stating that God will draw the House of Jacob together and gather them to himself where they are living. In verse 21 of Ezekiel.37 God talks about planting Israel once more into a fertile field/soil from which they will draw their nourishment from as God teaches them about the Kingdom of God, His Everlasting Kingdom, in the places where they are scattered throughout the whole world/earth.

I am not writing about the Nation of Israel being returned to the land of Canaan as the translations of the source Hebrew texts suggests.

In writing of this gathering of the descendants to Himself, I am reminded of the Parable of the Sower that when Jesus presents the fourth picture of the sower scattering seed that it is in a fertile field and the scattered seed brings forth heavy heads of seed of a great harvest.

Now you wrote that: - This is a Christian forum, and you should not be pushing the Jew's religion here.

Sadly, dear brother, it is you who is pushing the accepted Jewish tradition of the return of the Jewish people to the Promised land, which has never been God's intent as God's purpose was for Abraham and His descendants to inherit the whole earth that God would show them at the end of the Ages of this present Age so that in the next Age, they will possess the whole earth as their inheritance.

It is this blindness of God Purposes and the plan that He has to achieve this outcome of a great harvest of souls during the last age of the Ages of the Age that is the present stumbling block for both the Jews and the Christians and has placed us in the dilemma that the world presently finds itself in. Sadly you too exhibit this same blindness of what the scriptures prophetically states and write as if your understanding is God's intent of what he has presented.

Instead of saying, "we have the Temple, We Have the Temple", as the other "prophets" of Jeremiah's days proclaimed, you are pushing the claim that "We have the Promised Land, We have the Promised Land." And "God will not let us down, He will protect us in the Promised Land," but the time is coming when our idol of the Promised Land will remain silent and the land will let us down.

Within the next 20-30 years God will establish His Everlasting Kingdom here on the earth and God's Foundational truth will come down to the earth and be established and people will go up to the Sanctuary where they resided throughout the whole earth and have communion with God.

I look forward to that day, but I also know that there will be a great falling away just before the end of that Age.

Shalom

Davy said:

Well, yes you are writing about the return of the seed of Israel to the holy lands.

You said:
"In Ez.20:42, God promises that He will bring Israel into the earth that He said that He would show to Abraham in Genesis.12:1, which God Promised to Give to Abraham and his descendants in the Abrahamic Covenant."

Problem is, that Abrahamic Covenant is to Christ's Church, not to unbelievers who refuse Jesus Christ.

The Promise God gave to Abraham which accompanied His promises of the land, and great number of children, involved Faith, not the law. Apostle Paul well explained this in Galatians 3 and Romans 4.

Thus the unbelieving Jews returning back to the holy land today does NOT represent this.

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Davy, the usual manner in which Gen12:1 is translated is thus: -

The contextual timeframe for this translation is a short timeframe understanding because God then lead Abraham down into the land of Canaan and that later God promised Abraham that: -


In Genesis.15:17-21 God lists all of the places where Abraham had live in or travelled through and God began to fulfil the two promises in Gen.13 & 15 when He lead them back into the Land of Canaan when they crossed the River Jordan.

Sadly, because of the continual idolatrous iniquities of Israel's descendants God scattered all of Israel to the four corners of the earth after 70 AD.

However the right way to understand the Gen.12:1-3 covenantal promises is this way: -


This translation paraphrase of Gen.12:1-3 is based on a distant future fulfilment of 5,000 plus years when God's Saints, i.e. the righteous descendants of Abraham, will inherit the whole refurbished, righteous earth after the GWTRJ.

God's purpose is to bring salvation to those who will respond to Him and accept His Righteous way of Living. This purpose is not a short term undertaking on God's part, but it is a long term undertaking that as many as possible will have the opportunity to Embrace God's Love for them.

Do you see the difference in what I am writing. As this is what the original source texts support.

Shalom

Davy said:

Well, yes you are writing about the return of the seed of Israel to the holy lands.

You said:
"In Ez.20:42, God promises that He will bring Israel into the earth that He said that He would show to Abraham in Genesis.12:1, which God Promised to Give to Abraham and his descendants in the Abrahamic Covenant."

Problem is, that Abrahamic Covenant is to Christ's Church, not to unbelievers who refuse Jesus Christ.

The Promise God gave to Abraham which accompanied His promises of the land, and great number of children, involved Faith, not the law. Apostle Paul well explained this in Galatians 3 and Romans 4.

Thus the unbelieving Jews returning back to the holy land today does NOT represent this.

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Yes Jesus Christ is the King of Israel regardless and only who comes to him is worthy and if not they are in fact of the Anti-Christ !

Problem is nowadays is that Satan powers have increased and are leading the majority of people astray.
Fact is it is not about anyone's race and it never was.

If one does not have the Holy Spirit you are a cooked duck. so why would anyone who has the Holy Spirit look up to another that does not have such at all.

Just because some bigot claims to be descendent from the Tribe does not cut it at all.
Them people 2000 years ago have breed into every tribe in the world nowadays, so who can make claim ? oh I am 90 % and X is 70% and Y is 30% so 90% is a cut above all, what BS ! fact is back in the day 2000 years and more only a small percentage were true to God and if it was not for the prophets where would they all of been anyway ? so no just because they were of the tribe 2000 years ago etc does not count for nothing at all, because it did not then as well and that's a fact, only the Prophets were above all and the rest were nothing too them and they knew it for a fact.
Where were they getting their inspiration from ? their race ? BS ! no one does gets inspiration from their race like that.
One must get inspiration from Jesus Christ who is the King of Israel and only from him as all other is just rubbish.

Oh look the village idiot ? lets get inspiration from him ! every tribe or nation town has one and the same was true of the Tribes back in the OT.

I thought that racial one up man ship had been exposed for the folly that it is and it shits me to tears that people can be so stupid to follow such rubbish that Hitler and his Nazi mob peddled.
Every Nation has it's morons, the good the bad etc etc it's the same with all regardless.
It's just stupid to claim otherwise.

Hey Uncle Speget I have just found out that I am Jewish on my other family side as well now, so that makes me more % than you, kiss my feet. all them years ! off being under you bro, and I was all ways truly above you.

Or oh I am 2% Jewish ? but that makes me one !!! BS !
One must be full blood to be claiming a race or one is playing with themselves, who are you ? oh um I am claiming to be a race but I know of 8 others that I am just ignoring the fact of ?

We have idiots hear in Australian nowadays claiming to be Aboriginal, but are saying that they don't feel Aboriginal enough ? maybe it's because they are in fact not, so why claim to be. this rubbish is peddled on TV adds .
Or some dill has just found out that they have part Abo some where back and now are claiming to be just as much as a full blood and in fact more some how. pushing the full bloods about .

Only by idolising rubbish like Political Correctness can one get away with such total ignorance.
The reality is that their is in fact noting correct with anything Political, Political has nothing to do with Truth, let alone being correct ever. fact is you can never mix the two together as they are poler opposites in fact.