On being a Saint

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marksman

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"The Saint Must Walk Alone" By A.W. Tozer

Most of the World’s GREAT SOULS have been lonely. Loneliness seems to be one price the saint must pay for his saintliness.

Enoch, Noah, Abraham and Moses all walked a path quite apart from their contemporaries even though many people surrounded them.

The prophets of pre-Christian times differed widely from each other, but one mark they bore in common was their enforced loneliness.

Jesus died alone in the darkness hidden from the sight of mortal man and no one saw Him when He arose triumphant and walked out of the tomb, even though many saw Him afterward and bore witness to what they saw.

The cheerful denial of loneliness proves only that the speaker has never walked with God without the support and encouragement afforded him by society. The sense of companionship that mistakenly attributes to the presence of Christ may and probably does arise from the presence of friendly people. Always remember: you cannot carry a cross in company. Though a vast crowd surrounds a man, his cross is his alone and his carrying of it marks him as a man apart. Society has turned against him; otherwise he would have no cross. No one is a friend to the man with a cross. “They all forsook Him and fled.”

The loneliness of the Christian results from his walk with God in an ungodly world, a walk that must often take him away from the fellowship of good Christians as well as from the unregenerate world. His God-given instincts cry out for companionship with others who can understand his longings, his aspirations, and his absorption in his love for Christ; and because within his circle of friends there are so few who share his inner experiences he is forced to walk alone.

The man who has passed on into the divine Presence in actual inner experience will not find many who understand him. A certain amount of social fellowship will of course be his as he mingles with religious persons in regular activities of the church, but true spiritual fellowship will be hard to find.

The truly spiritual man is indeed something of an oddity. He lives not for himself but to promote the interests of Another. He seeks to persuade people to give all to his Lord and asks no portion or share for himself. He delights not to be honored but to see his Saviour glorified in the eyes of men. His joy is to see Jesus promoted and himself neglected. He finds few who care to talk about that which is the supreme object of his interest, so he is often silent and preoccupied in the midst of noisy religious shoptalk. For this he earns the reputation of being dull and over-serious, so he is avoided and the gulf between him and society widens. He searches for friends upon whose garments he can detect the smell of myrrh and aloes and cassia out of the ivory palaces, and finding few or none he, like Mary of old, keeps these things in his heart.

It is this very loneliness that throws him back upon God. His inability to find human companionship drives him to seek in God what he can find nowhere else. He learns in inner solitude what he could not have learned in the crowd-that Christ is All in All.

Two things remain to be said about the man that is in this state of loneliness. First, he is not a haughty man, he is not holier-than-thou, and he is not an austere saint. He is likely to feel that he is the least of all men and is sure to blame himself for his loneliness. He wants to share his feelings with others and to open his heart to some like-minded soul who will understand him, but the spiritual climate around him does not encourage it, so he remains silent and tells his grief to God alone.

The second thing is that the lonely saint is not the withdrawn man who hardens himself against human suffering and spends his days contemplating the heavens. The opposite is true. His loneliness makes him sympathetic to the approach of the brokenhearted and the fallen and the sin-bruised. Because he is detached from the world he is all the more able to help it.

The weakness of so many modern Christians is that they feel too much at home in the world. In their effort to achieve restful “adjustment” to an unregenerate society they have lost their pilgrim character and become an essential part of the very moral order against which they are sent to protest. The world recognizes them (modern Christians) and accepts them for what they are. This is the saddest thing that can be said about them. They are not lonely, but neither are they saints.

- A.W. Tozer

I am a lonely Christian mainly because I am autistic. We have a tendency to speak as we find and in today's sugar-coated Christianity, people do not like that. It has its benefits inasmuch I have become an avid reader (I go through at least one book a week) so that means I am constantly learning. In regards to what I say, I only speak when I have done the reading and learning on the subject. With one subject, I read over 60 books on the topic. If I haven't then I keep my mouth shut as I find my opinion boring and.....other people's opinion boring.

I find that autistic people are good teachers because they are not afraid of the truth and are not sucked in to go with the flow of whatever someone says is the truth if it is not.

Although I am lonely I am not depressed as I never know what I will learn with the next book I pick up so it is a constant voyage of discovery. Basically, I am studying to show myself approved by God so I am not beholden to what man says.
 

marksman

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@Episkopos

Again, I'll say, I am in full agreement with you that many Christians do not all seem the same.

We agree that God calls us to holiness.

We agree that we are to put away the things of the flesh.

We agree that we are to actively pursue after righteousness.

That is, assuming that we agree on these!

But who are any of us to judge the motives of other's hearts?

To say that "I'm better than that person, I'm more holy"? To say, "I'm one of the elite, because I try harder"?

Your "race", as you put it, well, your words:



This turns salvation into salvation by works. It's to say, you've not been given salvation as a free gift, the gift was a ticket into the race to compete, to run the race and if you run it right, you can be saved. That's your works, your doing, by your great desire and greater effort you climb into holiness, and that saves you.

But Ephesians 2 declares salvation itself as a free gift. And no, I'm not just going on surface reading, check the syntax.



It always comes down to this.

Yet the Bible says that God has raised us up Together and seated us Together in the heavenly realm with Christ, that if we've died with Christ, been raised with Him, we are Hid with Him in God. All of us. Together. We are all in the heavenly realm.

Not just a few 'elites'.

Much love!
mark

I always wonder about the bit that says we are hid with him in God. if that is the case, why do we see so much of others and "their" ministry?

If we are "hid" should it not be the case we can't be seen? I don't mean physically, but spiritually. Meaning that what we offer to others in the spiritual realm should reflect the life of Christ, not our own.

We can all say this, that and the other but how many say this that and the other and it is clear that what is being conveyed is something of the life and person of Christ?
 

marks

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I always wonder about the bit that says we are hid with him in God. if that is the case, why do we see so much of others and "their" ministry?

If we are "hid" should it not be the case we can't be seen? I don't mean physically, but spiritually. Meaning that what we offer to others in the spiritual realm should reflect the life of Christ, not our own.

We can all say this, that and the other but how many say this that and the other and it is clear that what is being conveyed is something of the life and person of Christ?

Hi marksman,

Interesting question, that!

Our walk is by believing, and not by seeing. We look not to the things which are seen, which are temporal, but to the unseen, which is eternal.

I would say that what we offer in the spiritual realm is out of the life of Christ, and that it can be camouflaged by the works of the flesh, or not seen by those seeing flesh.

It does say we are hid with Christ in God. I relate that to like in 1 John he says we do not know what we shall be, or Romans 8, the revealing of the children of God, something like that.

I think that we live in Christ, in our new-birth spirit, and walk in Him, to the extent that we are exerting self-control over our bodies. And a lack of self control can confuse things.

The more we can supplant the works for the flesh with the walk of works ordained by God, the more the world will see Jesus in us. And the more we see our love for others, the greater our own confidence will be with God.

What a good thought! Shouldn't we not be seen? Yes.

Much love!
Mark
 
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marks

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I am a lonely Christian mainly because I am autistic. We have a tendency to speak as we find and in today's sugar-coated Christianity, people do not like that. It has its benefits inasmuch I have become an avid reader (I go through at least one book a week) so that means I am constantly learning. In regards to what I say, I only speak when I have done the reading and learning on the subject. With one subject, I read over 60 books on the topic. If I haven't then I keep my mouth shut as I find my opinion boring and.....other people's opinion boring.

I find that autistic people are good teachers because they are not afraid of the truth and are not sucked in to go with the flow of whatever someone says is the truth if it is not.

Although I am lonely I am not depressed as I never know what I will learn with the next book I pick up so it is a constant voyage of discovery. Basically, I am studying to show myself approved by God so I am not beholden to what man says.

Hi Marksman,

So . . . while I don't have an autism diagnosis, on the self administered diagnostics I'm just below the threshold for Asperger's. I'm figuring I have an idea as my sister was diagnosed, my brother, his wife, their four children, all autistic to varying degrees. And my wife. This was before we knew about this stuff.

And while it seems to hold me back in some ways in life, it only seems a blessing between God and I. It certainly affects how I come to Scripture. Either it says a thing or it doesn't, and I don't care which, so long as I know.

Lot's of people don't seem to understand that. I'm glad you are here.

Much love!
Mark
 

Episkopos

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I always wonder about the bit that says we are hid with him in God. if that is the case, why do we see so much of others and "their" ministry?

If we are "hid" should it not be the case we can't be seen? I don't mean physically, but spiritually. Meaning that what we offer to others in the spiritual realm should reflect the life of Christ, not our own.

We can all say this, that and the other but how many say this that and the other and it is clear that what is being conveyed is something of the life and person of Christ?


Good post Marksman! At the proper depth to understand what being a saint is all about. Our life is hid with God so that His life can be revealed in us. No longer I who live but Christ. That's the idea.
 

marksman

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Hi Marksman,

So . . . while I don't have an autism diagnosis, on the self administered diagnostics I'm just below the threshold for Asperger's. I'm figuring I have an idea as my sister was diagnosed, my brother, his wife, their four children, all autistic to varying degrees. And my wife. This was before we knew about this stuff.

And while it seems to hold me back in some ways in life, it only seems a blessing between God and I. It certainly affects how I come to Scripture. Either it says a thing or it doesn't, and I don't care which, so long as I know.

Lot's of people don't seem to understand that. I'm glad you are here.

Much love!
Mark

Either it says a thing or it doesn't, and I don't care which, so long as I know. I LIKE IT!!

It is either a blessing or a curse depending on how we deal with it. As I have never known anything else, I make it a blessing.
 
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marks

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Either it says a thing or it doesn't, and I don't care which, so long as I know. I LIKE IT!!

It is either a blessing or a curse depending on how we deal with it. As I have never known anything else, I make it a blessing.

I think it's a blessing. But it can make life interesting!

I have poor facial recognition outside of a person's normal context. I can know someone at church, and have a conversation with the at the supermarket with no idea of who I'm talking to, only that they clearly know me.

So I've had to learn to treat everyone as my friend, because, for all I know, they might be!

Much love!
 

marksman

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I think it's a blessing. But it can make life interesting!

I have poor facial recognition outside of a person's normal context. I can know someone at church, and have a conversation with the at the supermarket with no idea of who I'm talking to, only that they clearly know me.

So I've had to learn to treat everyone as my friend, because, for all I know, they might be!

Much love!

Been there done that so I know what you are talking about.
 

prism

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A saint is one who walks like Jesus...in resurrection power. There are few saints in a society such as we find ourselves...but there could be many more if only people would...

1. acknowledge that they are not yet saints (humble themselves)
Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
2 Corinthians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 1:1 (KJV) Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: etc.

Especially the Church at Corinth were full of carnality and received numerous rebukes by Paul and yet Paul calls them saints.

Hebrews 10:10 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.
 
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Episkopos

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Ro 1:7 To all that be in Rome, beloved of God, called to be saints: Grace to you and peace from God our Father, and the Lord Jesus Christ.
1Co 1:2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:

Especially the Church at Corinth were full of carnality and received numerous rebukes by Paul and yet Paul calls them saints.

Hebrews 10:10 (KJV) By the which will we are sanctified through the offering of the body of Jesus Christ once for all.

Being a saint is a high calling...a very high calling. So high that today it is not even perceived. Such is the delusion that people think they are saints while still walking as regular men.
 
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prism

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Being a saint is a high calling...a very high calling. So high that today it is not even perceived. Such is the delusion that people think they are saints while still walking as regular men.

I added this maybe as you were preparing your last response...

2 Corinthians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 1:1 (KJV) Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: etc.

In any case it shows those believers in Christ at those cities were ALL called saints by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...or maybe you think Paul was deceived?
 

Episkopos

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I added this maybe as you were preparing your last response...

2 Corinthians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 1:1 (KJV) Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: etc.

In any case it shows those believers in Christ at those cities were ALL called saints by Paul under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...or maybe you think Paul was deceived?

That's not what it says...but reading comprehension is very lacking these days. Paul was not deceived...just not understood.

Among the Corinthians there were both carnal and spiritual believers.

Paul definitely makes a distinction between the saints and the faithful brethren...but you'd have to come to the text without prejudice and indoctrination.

Eph.1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And...

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

When one understands what is the growth from carnal to spiritual...then one can understand the distinction.

The problem today is that there is usually no growth...therefore everyone who is carnal assumes they are a saint...thus remaining carnal.
 

prism

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That's not what it says...but reading comprehension is very lacking these days. Paul was not deceived...just not understood.

Among the Corinthians there were both carnal and spiritual believers.

Paul definitely makes a distinction between the saints and the faithful brethren...but you'd have to come to the text without prejudice and indoctrination.

Eph.1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:

And...

2 To the saints and faithful brethren in Christ which are at Colosse: Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

When one understands what is the growth from carnal to spiritual...then one can understand the distinction.

The problem today is that there is usually no growth...therefore everyone who is carnal assumes they are a saint...thus remaining carnal.
It's easy to accuse others of no growth or understanding. But you have not shown how the clear text means something other than it plainly says.

2 Corinthians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 1:1 (KJV) Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: etc.

But continue with your accusations if you wish, until you can produce some substance supporting your claim, I'm not buying it.
All truly born again Christians are saints as God's Holy Spirit has set them apart and is doing a renewal into His image in their life.
 

Wafer

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When you want to know the meaning of a word in the bible you look up the first usage.

Deuteronomy 33:2 King James Version (KJV)
2 And he said, The Lord came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

That is Hebrew qodesh, Strong's H6944.

Outline of Biblical Usage H6942; a sacred place or thing; rarely abstract, sanctity:—consecrated (thing), dedicated (thing), hallowed (thing), holiness, (× most) holy (× day, portion, thing), saint, sanctuary.
SOURCE: Genesis 1:1 (KJV)

So you say a saint "walks". Strong says a saint is made or set aside for a purpose.

IMO there is nothing you can do to attain sainthood. It is given by God. Various churches have better ideas, of course.
 

Episkopos

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It's easy to accuse others of no growth or understanding. But you have not shown how the clear text means something other than it plainly says.

2 Corinthians 1:1 (KJV) Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, and Timothy our brother, unto the church of God which is at Corinth, with all the saints which are in all Achaia:
Ephesians 1:1 (KJV)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, to the saints which are at Ephesus, and to the faithful in Christ Jesus:
Philippians 1:1 (KJV) Paul and Timotheus, the servants of Jesus Christ, to all the saints in Christ Jesus which are at Philippi, with the bishops and deacons: etc.

But continue with your accusations if you wish, until you can produce some substance supporting your claim, I'm not buying it.
All truly born again Christians are saints as God's Holy Spirit has set them apart and is doing a renewal into His image in their life.


Just where is that attitude coming from in you? You are proving the biblical point that in the church you have those who have given up their lives for Christ and walk in a crucified state to their flesh. Then there are the humble learners who walk with hope towards the Lord and look to the more mature brethren for an example. Then there are those who throw a tantrum if it is suggested that not everyone is walking in the same kind of life or maturity.

Your attitude proves the point I'm making. Calling a teaching an accusation shows the level of your own walk and what is so painfully lacking.
 

prism

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Just where is that attitude coming from in you? You are proving the biblical point that in the church you have those who have given up their lives for Christ and walk in a crucified state to their flesh. Then there are the humble learners who walk with hope towards the Lord and look to the more mature brethren for an example. Then there are those who throw a tantrum if it is suggested that not everyone is walking in the same kind of life or maturity.

Your attitude proves the point I'm making. Calling a teaching an accusation shows the level of your own walk and what is so painfully lacking.
Then there are false teachers (wolves) strutting around in sheep's clothing.
Once again, Paul in his letter to many Churches called them 'saints' irrespective of their growth or attainment in spirituality. He did not set up a class of saints and aint's. We, as true believers, are saint's.
 

marks

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Then there are false teachers (wolves) strutting around in sheep's clothing.
Once again, Paul in his letter to many Churches called them 'saints' irrespective of their growth or attainment in spirituality. He did not set up a class of saints and aint's. We, as true believers, are saint's.

Hi Prism,

One such example was in my reading the other day, Paul's letter to the Romans:

Romans 1 (YLT)
1 Paul, a servant of Jesus Christ, a called apostle, having been separated to the good news of God --
2 which He announced before through His prophets in holy writings --
3 concerning His Son, (who is come of the seed of David according to the flesh,
4 who is marked out Son of God in power, according to the Spirit of sanctification, by the rising again from the dead,) Jesus Christ our Lord;
5 through whom we did receive grace and apostleship, for obedience of faith among all the nations, in behalf of his name;
6 among whom are also ye, the called of Jesus Christ;
7 to all who are in Rome, beloved of God, called saints; Grace to you, and peace, from God our Father, and [from] the Lord Jesus Christ!

This letter was addressed to the saints, period.

To whom he wrote:

Ch 6
12 Let not then the sin reign in your mortal body, to obey it in its desires;
13 neither present ye your members instruments of unrighteousness to the sin, but present yourselves to God as living out of the dead, and your members instruments of righteousness to God;
14 for sin over you shall not have lordship, for ye are not under law, but under grace.
15 What then? shall we sin because we are not under law but under grace? let it not be!
16 have ye not known that to whom ye present yourselves servants for obedience, servants ye are to him to whom ye obey, whether of sin to death, or of obedience to righteousness?
17 and thanks to God, that ye were servants of the sin, and -- were obedient from the heart to the form of teaching to which ye were delivered up;
18 and having been freed from the sin, ye became servants to the righteousness.
19 In the manner of men I speak, because of the weakness of your flesh, for even as ye did present your members servants to the uncleanness and to the lawlessness -- to the lawlessness, so now present your members servants to the righteousness -- to sanctification,

If the saint is the one who has mastered this, then how is it Paul urges them to do it?

No such thing as "super-Christian". We cannot add to our acceptibility to God, or to our righteousness, or to our holiness, being as God has already made us righteous and holy in Christ. To say we can add to that?

What we can do is to embrace that reality, and live our lives like that, righteous and holy.

And not try to promote ourselves as something better than others.

I remember even seeing on a thread here not so long ago someone objecting to another, something like, "that's how you respond to your betters?" Unbelievable!

Much love!
 
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