The Restrainer

Enoch111 · May 12, 2019

brakelite said:
There is no biblical evidence anywhere that anyone will be alive on earth during the millennium.

And why would Christ bother with a Millennium if no one will be alive on earth at that time? And why will it be necessary to bind Satan if there will be no one on earth for him to influence? And why will Christ reign with His saints when there will be no one to reign over (according to your fantasy belief)? Do you see how you are digging yourself into a hole?

REVELATION 20 [Pointless according to Brakelite]
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison...

bbyrd009 · May 12, 2019

brakelite said:
Well, I wasnt pulling all that out of thin air bro. Not about'believing'but rather a deduction from scripture regarding the final group of God people before the world melts... Those who keep the commandments of God and have the faith of Jesus. (Revell 12:17,14:6). God's purpose is to create in His people the character and the mind of Christ, He who is the way the truth and the life. It stands to reason that they have have Christ, have truth. At least enough truth not to be dissuaded or deceived by charlatans.

Did my whole reply crash? Guess so hmm. So, hopefully you got that i was mostly agreeing there, but i would like to ask what your opinion on "elect deceived" is based upon the Lex or in this case only the NASB tranny, and perhaps the prevailing opinion of the um testificators of themselves if you use that as a guide, tomorrow.

Also, this World Melts thing, in the context of the Final Group thing especially, i'd like to...hear some more about that, from you, and in the interest of full disclosure, enough to have your head, just so you know. So your um proof for this tonight or first or whatever, a paragraph or more if you could, the more the better, I will read up to about...well, i'll read everything you write on that, and on the other, whenever, after the Lex/NASB render sinks in if you would, ty.

And g'nite to all

bbyrd009 · May 12, 2019

CoreIssue said:
How does anyone know?

that is a deflection and a way to avoid CI, not an answer
or lemme rephrase, that is a fabulous answer, but not the way you mean it
feel free to just ignore this post too if you like, i would much rather not get tagged ty

and a nice eve to you too ok

Earburner · May 12, 2019

CoreIssue said:
That is nonsense.

The Bible speaks of a single restrainer.

The restrainer has to be everywhere and with the power to restrain anywhere.

No one but the Holy Spirit fits the requirements.

And I do not believe you have not gotten your beliefs from SDA doctrine which came from Ellen G White.

What "Phoeman" said is true:
"The 2,300 Days include the period of rise of the "king of fierce countenance" which period began after the fall of the he-goat Greece - according to Daniel himself. It's too bad Daniel isn't alive today so that he could correct his errors that you have so generously pointed out.
.
As prophesied in Daniel, the 2300 days was fulfilled in the days of that "little horn" Antiochus Epiphanes of the Seleucid Empire (1 of the 4 horns out of Greece), in which he committed the act of "the AoD". It was Judas Maccabeus who cleansed/restored the temple.
All of that history is dutifully documented by the Jews (the Holy people then) in 1 and 2 Maccabees.

Naomi25 · May 12, 2019

brakelite said:
I see the elect as that final remnant who are sealed by the holy Spirit into truth... They are settled into truth to such an extent that they cannot and will not be moved. It is impossible that they be deceived..
However, whether those who are excluded in the final analysis as not coming out of Babylon are merely 'dabblers', I would dispute to some extent. I think those deceived would include many who are absolutely committed and not just dabbling... One of the cheif characteristics of being deceived is not knowing you are deceived. They can be totally and fully committed to a lie.
For example, would you say Marymog or BreadofLife are just 'dabbling'?

Ha! Well...here we begin to touch on some other issues that would be getting deep...like...do those in the RCC have true faith, or, are those who are saved assured in that salvation?
Because on the first...well..as I said, I'll withhold opinion for now while looking at those resources (have watched the first two, by the way...quite interesting!)...and the second, I would content that we do. I'm sure there are many, many people out there who truly believe they are 'Christians'...but they have no real understanding of what salvation is, what a relationship with Christ is, or what a new heart brings. Thus, when hard times come, they fall away, the 'loose faith'. Except...while they may have 'claimed' Christ's name...they never knew him.
So...I think when it comes to deception...be it from a false 'church' or teacher, we must understand that yes...those believing it don't know they are being deceived. But...we have the promise of Christ...that we will hear HIS voice and KNOW his voice. Those that are his will not, ultimately, be deceived. Even if that takes them time, or a journey...the good shepherd will find them and bring them home.

Lady Crosstalk · May 12, 2019

brakelite said:
Apparently it is displayed in the papal museum in the Vatican and is the crest of GregoryVIII
. Google Image Result for http://www.aviewoncities.com/img/rome/sveit0485s.jpg
Here's another one from inside St Peter's Basilica
Google Image Result for https://previews.123rf.com/images/billperry/billperry1708/billperry170800031/84457648-angels-golden-dragon-ceiling-saint-peter-s-basilica-vatican-rome-italy-vatican-and-ceiling-built-in-.jpg

That last pic, I know they call them angels, but let's get real. They are naked babies right?

The perverts who have always been in the Vatican probably appreciate them.

Did you notice the (dead) woman below the dragon (she is disguised but it is obvious what it is depicting if you disregard the birds or whatever). She is gray and looks dead. Wonder who it is supposed to be?

Phoneman777 said:
You are following Jesuitical eschatology. Make no mistake. You are a disciple of Jesuit priest Francisco Ribera. This is perhaps the all time most asinine thing you've ever said...HUNDREDS of years before EGW, the great Protestant Reformers were calling out the Jesuits and your leader, Ribera, as anti-Bible, misguided papal sympathizers as fervent in their devotion to papal eschatological error as you are. You passionately promote the ideas of Jesuitical eschatology which says the Antichrist is yet to arise, which ideas were sent into the world as a combat tactic against those who preached the truth of the papal Antichrist: Wycliffe, Huss, Zwinglie, J. Calvin, M. Coverdale, Tyndale, J. Wesley, C. Wesley, C. Spurgeon, B. Franklin, A. Lincoln, and the list goes on and on. You are literally a Jesuit Futurist who knows little to nothing about the glorious, God-ordained Protestant Reformation, why God gave rise to this greatest movement to ever sweep over the planet, the identity of the Restrainer, the identity of the Beast, and the Mark of the Beast to the point you teach the ridiculous notion that a shallowly injected "chip" under the skin which could EASILY be dug out using, if necessary, only one's own fingernails, is what will stand in the way between heaven and the injected. If you would put down your Jesuitcal propaganda, put down the revisionist historian falsehoods, and stick to discussing Scripture, you would be amazed at how much the Holy Spirit would reveal to you...but satanic blindness is the most difficult to cure and the worst kind because it's self-imposed.

Did the Jesuits write the Book of Ezekiel or the other OT prophets? If not, there is a lot of unfulfilled prophecy that you must account for in your theology of the End Times.

Phoneman777 · May 12, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Rome is not a person.

If Paul's words, "...that the MAN OF GOD may be perfect..." can be a plurality of men, that same Paul can by the phrase "...the MAN OF SIN..." be referring to a plurality of men responsible for restraining the rise of the papal Antichrist.

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but the Antichrist is prophesied to arise "among" the barbarian Ten Horns which arose out of the ashes of the fallen Roman Empire. A picture is worth a thousand words. This Reformation era Rathous sculpture totally disproves your ridiculous ideas about where I get my eschatology:

LEFT: Nebuchadnezzer with Eagle winged lion/ RIGHT: Cyrus with lifted up Bear

LEFT: Alexander with four headed Leopard/ RIGHT: Caesar with Ten Horn Beast

WELL, WELL, LOOK AT THE PAPAL FIGURE THEY SCULPTED AMONG THE TEN HORNS!!!

Nancy · May 12, 2019

Phoneman777 said:
If Paul's words, "...that the MAN OF GOD may be perfect..." can be a plurality of men, that same Paul can by the phrase "...the MAN OF SIN..." be referring to a plurality of men responsible for restraining the rise of the papal Antichrist.

Maybe you didn't get the memo, but the Antichrist is prophesied to arise "among" the barbarian Ten Horns which arose out of the ashes of the fallen Roman Empire. A picture is worth a thousand words. This Reformation era Rathous sculpture totally disproves your ridiculous ideas about where I get my eschatology:

LEFT: Nebuchadnezzer with Eagle winged lion/ RIGHT: Cyrus with lifted up Bear
View attachment 6256

LEFT: Alexander with four headed Leopard/ RIGHT: Caesar with Ten Horn Beast
View attachment 6259

WELL, WELL, LOOK AT THE PAPAL FIGURE THEY SCULPTED AMONG THE TEN HORNS!!!
View attachment 6260

How do people just overlook these things??!

brakelite · May 12, 2019

Enoch111 said:
And why would Christ bother with a Millennium if no one will be alive on earth at that time?

The earth has been under duress for 6000 years. It will receive its well deserved rest...its 'seventh day Sabbath'. It will lie fallow...unworked...left in complete desolation as it was after Christ's coming. I think it far more of a fantasy to believe anyone could live on the planet after the absolute pummeling it gets in its final hours...its death throes so to speak. Isaiah and Jeremiah had some extremely choice words to say in that regard...
Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again....

Isa.13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger....

Jer.4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jer.25:26 And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.
27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.
28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.
29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.
30 ¶ Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

can you imagine the desolation? The damage? How is anyone going to live on a broken down planet such as the scriptures describe?

Enoch111 said:
And why will it be necessary to bind Satan if there will be no one on earth for him to influence?

It is because there is no-one here that he is bound...it is the circumstances...not some spiritual or even physical literal chain...that binds him. The bottomless pit is the 'abussos', the void and empty earth (See above Jer.4:23; Gen.1:2; Rev.20)itself which he is bound to with no-one to tempt. 1000 years to contemplate his impending sentence.

Enoch111 said:
And why will Christ reign with His saints when there will be no one to reign over

If everyone on earth during the millennium are God's people, who are they reigning over anyway on earth? The reign is not necessarily to exercise authority over anyone. But the scriptures do declare that we will judge angels. And partake as guests at the wedding supper of the Lamb. You don't imagine that this will take place amidst the rubble and pollution of nuclear waste on earth do you?

For what purpose does God release Satan if all that are on earth are faithful to the ruling Saviour? And to what glory is there to God releasing Satan to tempt and destroy those who for 1000 years have remained faithful? To what purpose is it to raise all the wicked to life on an earth inhabited by the saints, and allow them to attack the saints to such an extent that they have to run and hide inside the city? All these previously victorious saints, who have just reigned a 1000 years in peace and harmony, now running in fear from a bunch of zombies? Where's the sense in that?

Enoch111 · May 12, 2019

brakelite said:
The earth has been under duress for 6000 years. It will receive its well deserved rest...its 'seventh day Sabbath'. It will lie fallow...unworked...left in complete desolation as it was after Christ's coming.

That is simply your opinion but Scripture refutes it.

Yes, the earth will be desolated BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. Then it will be revived and re-established under His rule and authority. Indeed there will be a shaking of the heavens and the earth, but that will not be the end of the matter. There are scores of Bible passages which refute your fantasy, but I will quote just one:

ISAIAH 2
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Notice "and He shall judge among the nations" and compare it with this:

MATTHEW 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

CoreIssue · May 12, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
that is a deflection and a way to avoid CI, not an answer
or lemme rephrase, that is a fabulous answer, but not the way you mean it
feel free to just ignore this post too if you like, i would much rather not get tagged ty

and a nice eve to you too ok

I find nothing in the Bible to say I am not.

God has used me several times for his purposes and not for my benefit. And use me in ways that cannot be called normal.

Every fiber of my being says I am saved.

There are some other things but that is discussion I do not believe I should engage in here.

Phoneman777 · May 12, 2019

Nancy said:
How do people just overlook these things??!

IDK. Is the Bible filled with examples of a singular man used to represent a multitude of people?

"Jacob" referring to God's chosen
"Israel" referring to God's chosen
"Judah" referring to the southern kingdom
"Dan", "Ephraim", "Gad", etc. referring to entire tribes
"Edom" and "Moab" referring to entire kingdoms

But let Paul say "man of sin" or "he" when talking about the Antichrist and the Restrainer and Biblical precedent gets tossed out the window. If it's true that the Antichrist had to arise among the Ten Horns as the "Little Horn", that means the timing of the Antichrist HAD to have taken place way back in history, which means whatever was restraining the rise of it had to be back in history. But thanks to the proliferation of Jesuit Futurism, people allow a couple of references like "man" and "he" to force the Antichrist into the future and thus "gap" theories and the like have to be invented to accommodate things.

I have no problem with people saying they disagree, but to say Historicism is not Biblical is just plain "ignant" as we say in the South LOL

Lady Crosstalk · May 12, 2019

Enoch111 said:
That is simply your opinion but Scripture refutes it.

Yes, the earth will be desolated BEFORE the Second Coming of Christ. Then it will be revived and re-established under His rule and authority. Indeed there will be a shaking of the heavens and the earth, but that will not be the end of the matter. There are scores of Bible passages which refute your fantasy, but I will quote just one:

ISAIAH 2
1 The word that Isaiah the son of Amoz saw concerning Judah and Jerusalem.
2 And it shall come to pass in the last days, that the mountain of the LORD'S house shall be established in the top of the mountains, and shall be exalted above the hills; and all nations shall flow unto it.
3 And many people shall go and say, Come ye, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD, to the house of the God of Jacob; and he will teach us of his ways, and we will walk in his paths: for out of Zion shall go forth the law, and the word of the LORD from Jerusalem.
4 And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.
5 O house of Jacob, come ye, and let us walk in the light of the LORD.

Notice "and He shall judge among the nations" and compare it with this:

MATTHEW 25
31 When the Son of man shall come in his glory, and all the holy angels with him, then shall he sit upon the throne of his glory:
32 And before him shall be gathered all nations: and he shall separate them one from another, as a shepherd divideth his sheep from the goats:
33 And he shall set the sheep on his right hand, but the goats on the left.
34 Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:
35 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:
36 Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.
37 Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?
38 When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?
39 Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?
40 And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.
41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
42 For I was an hungred, and ye gave me no meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me no drink:
43 I was a stranger, and ye took me not in: naked, and ye clothed me not: sick, and in prison, and ye visited me not.
44 Then shall they also answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, or athirst, or a stranger, or naked, or sick, or in prison, and did not minister unto thee?
45 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me.
46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

Also, Isaiah 65 is a wonderful picture of the Millennial Kingdom.

Phoneman777 · May 12, 2019

Nancy said:
How do people just overlook these things??!

Something else to consider is that at the core of the nature of Antichrist is the overwhelming addiction of Satan to COUNTERFEIT Christ, right down to the "timing" of things.

The "time of Christ" - which is defined by the beginning of His ministry until His crucifixion - is 1,260 days (3 1/2 years). Is it any surprise that the "timing of Antichrist" is said in Revelation 12 to be a 1,260 day period, which prophetically speaking is 1,260 years?

CoreIssue · May 12, 2019

Enoch111 said:
And why would Christ bother with a Millennium if no one will be alive on earth at that time? And why will it be necessary to bind Satan if there will be no one on earth for him to influence? And why will Christ reign with His saints when there will be no one to reign over (according to your fantasy belief)? Do you see how you are digging yourself into a hole?

REVELATION 20 [Pointless according to Brakelite]
1 And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.
2 And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years,
3 And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.
4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
7 And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison...

Exactly.

Seventh-day Adventists follow the teachings of Ellen G White. But the Bible makes it clear there's no such thing as a woman prophet who does not operate under the authority of a man. Yet she exercised authority over men.

The Bible says after the Bible was completed no new revelation of a biblical scale would be given. Yet she claimed biblical scale revelation.

The SDA do away with the Millennial Kingdom. They do not believe in the literal rule of Christ on the earth in Jerusalem.

They preach Sabbath keeping, but the Bible makes it clear there is no such thing as mandatory Saturday Sabbath in the church.

The Bible says if someone claims to be a prophet but violates anything already given by God that they are not prophet and not to be listened to.

The SDA is a cult.

Phoneman777 · May 12, 2019

brakelite said:
The earth has been under duress for 6000 years. It will receive its well deserved rest...its 'seventh day Sabbath'. It will lie fallow...unworked...left in complete desolation as it was after Christ's coming. I think it far more of a fantasy to believe anyone could live on the planet after the absolute pummeling it gets in its final hours...its death throes so to speak. Isaiah and Jeremiah had some extremely choice words to say in that regard...
Isa 24:20 The earth shall reel to and fro like a drunkard, and shall be removed like a cottage; and the transgression thereof shall be heavy upon it; and it shall fall, and not rise again....

Isa.13:9 Behold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.
10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine.
11 And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogancy of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible.
12 I will make a man more precious than fine gold; even a man than the golden wedge of Ophir.
13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the LORD of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger....

Jer.4:23 I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light.
24 I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly.
25 I beheld, and, lo, there was no man, and all the birds of the heavens were fled.
26 I beheld, and, lo, the fruitful place was a wilderness, and all the cities thereof were broken down at the presence of the LORD, and by his fierce anger.

Jer.25:26 And all the kings of the north, far and near, one with another, and all the kingdoms of the world, which are upon the face of the earth: and the king of Sheshach shall drink after them.
27 Therefore thou shalt say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts, the God of Israel; Drink ye, and be drunken, and spue, and fall, and rise no more, because of the sword which I will send among you.
28 And it shall be, if they refuse to take the cup at thine hand to drink, then shalt thou say unto them, Thus saith the LORD of hosts; Ye shall certainly drink.
29 For, lo, I begin to bring evil on the city which is called by my name, and should ye be utterly unpunished? Ye shall not be unpunished: for I will call for a sword upon all the inhabitants of the earth, saith the LORD of hosts.
30 ¶ Therefore prophesy thou against them all these words, and say unto them, The LORD shall roar from on high, and utter his voice from his holy habitation; he shall mightily roar upon his habitation; he shall give a shout, as they that tread the grapes, against all the inhabitants of the earth.
31 A noise shall come even to the ends of the earth; for the LORD hath a controversy with the nations, he will plead with all flesh; he will give them that are wicked to the sword, saith the LORD.
32 Thus saith the LORD of hosts, Behold, evil shall go forth from nation to nation, and a great whirlwind shall be raised up from the coasts of the earth.
33 And the slain of the LORD shall be at that day from one end of the earth even unto the other end of the earth: they shall not be lamented, neither gathered, nor buried; they shall be dung upon the ground.

Re 16:21 And there fell upon men a great hail out of heaven, every stone about the weight of a talent: and men blasphemed God because of the plague of the hail; for the plague thereof was exceeding great.

can you imagine the desolation? The damage? How is anyone going to live on a broken down planet such as the scriptures describe?

It is because there is no-one here that he is bound...it is the circumstances...not some spiritual or even physical literal chain...that binds him. The bottomless pit is the 'abussos', the void and empty earth (See above Jer.4:23; Gen.1:2; Rev.20)itself which he is bound to with no-one to tempt. 1000 years to contemplate his impending sentence.

If everyone on earth during the millennium are God's people, who are they reigning over anyway on earth? The reign is not necessarily to exercise authority over anyone. But the scriptures do declare that we will judge angels. And partake as guests at the wedding supper of the Lamb. You don't imagine that this will take place amidst the rubble and pollution of nuclear waste on earth do you?

For what purpose does God release Satan if all that are on earth are faithful to the ruling Saviour? And to what glory is there to God releasing Satan to tempt and destroy those who for 1000 years have remained faithful? To what purpose is it to raise all the wicked to life on an earth inhabited by the saints, and allow them to attack the saints to such an extent that they have to run and hide inside the city? All these previously victorious saints, who have just reigned a 1000 years in peace and harmony, now running in fear from a bunch of zombies? Where's the sense in that?

Anyone who thinks the Earth will be habitable after Jesus comes "as a thief in the night" and sets the entire Earth adn the heavens on fire should really stop and think about things. They'll be not one flesh and blood creature on this Earth during that millennium, just Satan and his angels chasing him around demanding to know where is the glory that he promised them.

Nancy · May 12, 2019

Phoneman777 said:
IDK. Is the Bible filled with examples of a singular man used to represent a multitude of people?

"Jacob" referring to God's chosen

"Israel" referring to God's chosen

"Judah" referring to the southern kingdom

"Dan", "Ephraim", "Gad", etc. referring to entire tribes

"Edom" and "Moab" referring to entire kingdoms

But let Paul say "man of sin" or "he" when talking about the Antichrist and the Restrainer and Biblical precedent gets tossed out the window. If it's true that the Antichrist had to arise among the Ten Horns as the "Little Horn", that means the timing of the Antichrist HAD to have taken place way back in history, which means whatever was restraining the rise of it had to be back in history. But thanks to the proliferation of Jesuit Futurism, people allow a couple of references like "man" and "he" to force the Antichrist into the future and thus "gap" theories and the like have to be invented to accommodate things.

I have no problem with people saying they disagree, but to say Historicism is not Biblical is just plain "ignant" as we say in the South LOL

"ignant" Lol...as has been said, it all comes out in the wash

The bible IS an historical compilation! We know the evidence is there for all and any who chooses to look deep enough. Fear of the truth I think, keeps many from putting forth honest effort to sincerely seek God. I see that in certain Christians I know too. They don't want to know anything more than what they have already learned as, they see that as just enough to get in by the skin of their noses, huh! Are they afraid that if they knew more they would be more responsible?? Mmm...yeah...me tinx dat's it...

Very good stuff Phone.

CoreIssue · May 12, 2019

Phoneman777 said:
Something else to consider is that at the core of the nature of Antichrist is the overwhelming addiction of Satan to COUNTERFEIT Christ, right down to the "timing" of things.

The "time of Christ" - which is defined by the beginning of His ministry until His crucifixion - is 1,260 days (3 1/2 years). Is it any surprise that the "timing of Antichrist" is said in Revelation 12 to be a 1,260 day period, which prophetically speaking is 1,260 years?

False. The tribulation period is two periods of 1260 days each. Clearly laid out in Revelation.

Satan does not counterfeit Christ. He counterfeits The Father. The AC counterfeits Christ, a man possessed by the demon who was in Alexander the great.The false prophet counterfeits the Holy Spirit,Another demon possessed man. All proven in the 6th Bowl.

More SDA lies from Ellen G White.

Phoneman777 · May 12, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Exactly.

Seventh-day Adventists follow the teachings of Ellen G White.

Funny, I keep hearing you say that but you haven't cited a single post where an SDA has appealed to anything but Scripture and history to support his/her spiritual proposition.

If you can find just one instance where I've exchanged the Bible for EGW's writings for the purpose of establishing a Biblical truth, I'll send you $100.

Lady Crosstalk · May 12, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Exactly.

Seventh-day Adventists follow the teachings of Ellen G White. But the Bible makes it clear there's no such thing as a woman prophet who does not operate under the authority of a man. Yet she exercised authority over men.

The Bible says after the Bible was completed no new revelation of a biblical scale would be given. Yet she claimed biblical scale revelation.

The SDA do away with the Millennial Kingdom. They do not believe in the literal rule of Christ on the earth in Jerusalem.

They preach Sabbath keeping, but the Bible makes it clear there is no such thing as mandatory Saturday Sabbath in the church.

The Bible says if someone claims to be a prophet but violates anything already given by God that they are not prophet and not to be listened to.

The SDA is a cult.

Keeping the Sabbath (which is and has always been Saturday) is a mark of God's Israelite people. In the Millennial Kingdom, they will strictly observe their sabbath days and their sabbath years.

On the other hand, Gentiles are not bound by Sabbath observance and the Church is mostly comprised of Gentiles. Yes, taking care of the bodies God has given us dictates that we take a day of rest every week--exercising mercy also dictates that we give any employees a day of rest.

The heathen nations surrounding Israel used to work their slaves to death--requiring them to work 12 hour days, seven days per week, for meager food rations (until they dropped dead at 35 or so--if they even attained that age). The Ras Shamra documents discovered in the 1920s give details of ordinary life of the Canaanites. It was not pretty. It has been said that the slaves in Israel had much better lives than the free men of the heathen nations. Slavery in Israel, was mostly of the indentured servant variety. Someone would agree to be a slave/servant a certain number of years for a specific payment. The Israelites were permitted to take slaves from among people that they defeated in war but that would not have been the typical slave in Israel. Israelites were forbidden to kidnap anyone--and that is the type of slavery which was practiced throughout the heathen world. The heathen would kidnap a family, sell them into slavery, and take all of their property. That is why wealthy men like Abraham needed a small army to protect him, his workers and his family when they went into a lawless heathen land. God would NOT have approved of African-American slavery at all, since it was based on kidnapping. Sorry for the slight diversion of the thread.

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