1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

Taken · May 12, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Your posting passages dealing with apostles. Of course they had the direct operation of the Spirit. We don’t.
We don’t need to be given the ability to understand. We already posses it. Paul said...
Ephesians 3:3-4 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Do I believe Paul or do I believe you?

Doesn't really matter to me what or whom ou believe.

I trust to believe and agree with Scripture.

At a particular time (ie THEN), a man is given Gods Understanding of His own Word.

Luke 24
[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Point being; Anyone can read Scriptures.
However the Understanding of Scriptures is from God forward to the man.

Glory to God,
Taken

VictoryinJesus · May 12, 2019

CNKW3 said:
You know you can’t ask whatsoever you want in the name of Christ and get it. The apostles were gonna have a job to do.

For the furthering of His kingdom. In the Lord’s name the children don’t pray and the Father gives it? Cannot understand what you are saying. Always thought the Holy Spirit and the comforter are the same. Cannot understand then what you believe is the baptism of the Spirit. What you are saying is contradicting everything He said in saying none of it was for the children but was only spoken to the Apostles.

Luke 6:20-23
[20] And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God. [21] Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh. [22] Blessed are ye, when men shall hate you, and when they shall separate you from their company , and shall reproach you , and cast out your name as evil, for the Son of man's sake. [23] Rejoice ye in that day, and leap for joy:

for, behold, your reward is great in heaven: for in the like manner did their fathers unto the prophets.

“he lifted His eyes on his disciples, and said, blessed be you poor for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.” Is this only for the twelve disciples also?

CNKW3 said:
They were guided into all truth by the Spirit directly. We are guided into all truth when we read and apply what they wrote. Through some of your post you are proving that you are not being guided into all truth.

So God is not in the children. God doesn’t cause them to walk in His ways. The person reads the Bible and applies it therefore it is their work to apply or to not apply. Returning to 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.

“Spiritually discerned” how so then? If it is not the Holy Spirit giving ‘the gift’ of discernment within the born again ...how do we ever know what is Truth?

CNKW3 said:
Paul lays out the pattern to salvation in Rom 10:13-15 and he said it starts with a preacher preaching the word and the subject hearing and believing the message then calling on the name of the lord. No Spirit directly working on the subject.

“No Spirit directly working on the subject.”

So it is on man?

VictoryinJesus · May 12, 2019

CNKW3 said:
I believe this is parallel with Mk 16:17-20 The Spirit literally did flow out of believers in the early church through the laying on of hands of an apostle. How could they worship, evangelize and go about their business without it? They didn’t have the written word as we do.

What happens if you are locked up in prison tomorrow and stayed there till the day you die. No bible. No way to get one. Will your relationship with God end? No bible. No relationship. For the rest of your days on earth since you are locked away in a prison you will spend it separated from God without a bible. Don’t get me wrong...I value what the written word reveals; only wondering if you’ve taken it too far in suggesting if someone took it from me tomorrow... they would also take away the relationship.

Romans 8:38-39
[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Angelina · May 12, 2019

CNKW3 said:
The promise to send the comforter or helper was made only to the apostles. That promise was fulfilled.

Read Acts 10
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

CNKW3 · May 13, 2019

Taken said:
Doesn't really matter to me what or whom ou believe.

I trust to believe and agree with Scripture.

At a particular time (ie THEN), a man is given Gods Understanding of His own Word.

Luke 24
[45] Then opened he their understanding, that they might understand the scriptures,

Point being; Anyone can read Scriptures.
However the Understanding of Scriptures is from God forward to the man.

Glory to God,
Taken

When’s he gonna open yours?

CNKW3 · May 13, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
For the furthering of His kingdom. In the Lord’s name the children don’t pray and the Father gives it?

how do we further the kingdom? Through preaching the gospel. The HS isn’t going to do it for us. He’s already done his part. Paul said..
2 Corinthians 4:5-7 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus' sake. For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.
The gospel that came through Christ is now in earthen vessels. Christ was the light but his light is now in the gospel message. Man is to go into all the world and preach the gospel. That is how the kingdom is expanded. You can pray but if you don’t spread the message you are wasting your time.

Cannot understand what you are saying. Always thought the Holy Spirit and the comforter are the same. Cannot understand then what you believe is the baptism of the Spirit. What you are saying is contradicting everything He said in saying none of it was for the children but was only spoken to the Apostles.

The HS and comforter are the same. There were only two times in the NT where we witnessed a baptism of the Spirit. Acts 2 and 10. Both times it was a miraculous event that man had no part in and was confirmed through the miraculous gifts of tongues and prophesying. We don’t see that today. “Tongue” speaking today is gibberish. Nonsense. A joke and makes Christianity look ridiculous.
Are you saying that every statement and promise directed to the apostles is for everybody? In Mk 9 jesus told them that some would not taste death until they saw the kingdom come with power. Is that for everybody? No way. That just goes to prove that there are statements and promises made in the Bible that were not for everybody. How do people not understand that?
Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.
He was speaking to the 11. Was this for you? Please explain.

Luke 6:20-23
[20] And he lifted up his eyes on his disciples, and said, Blessed be ye poor: for yours is the kingdom of God.
“he lifted His eyes on his disciples, and said, blessed be you poor for yours is the kingdom of God. Blessed are ye that hunger now: for ye shall be filled. Blessed are ye that weep now: for ye shall laugh.” Is this only for the twelve disciples also?

Of course not. This is the sermon on the plain. Vs 17. A great multitude came out to hear him. He is preaching the beatitudes. The sermon on the mount in Mt 5-7 is saying the same thing. He is preaching kingdom principles. Of course these are for all who wish to be a part of his kingdom. You don’t need the direct working of the Spirit to be a part of Christ’s kingdom.

So God is not in the children. God doesn’t cause them to walk in His ways.

Of course he does. He doesn’t personally do it. It is still up to us to learn and to follow his will according to the HS word he has given us. You can’t live as a child of God and never study the Bible. Just sit around and think God will do it all. He will allow you to fall away if you so desire.

The person reads the Bible and applies it therefore it is their work to apply or to not apply. Returning to 1 Corinthians 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them , because they are spiritually discerned.

“Spiritually discerned” how so then? If it is not the Holy Spirit giving ‘the gift’ of discernment within the born again ...how do we ever know what is Truth?

“No Spirit directly working on the subject.”

So it is on man?

Who is the natural man? The first 13 verses speaks of either following the spirit or the wisdom of man. If you allow your influence to be through the wisdom of man you are natural. If you allow your influence to be through the Spirit (the word)then you are spiritual.
When somebody tells me you need to accept Jesus and then say this prayer for salvation I can discern that he is natural and following the wisdom of man because the Spirit never, not one time, directed someone or gave an example of someone who did that under the new covenant. So, that message CAN NOT come from the Spirit. It is natural and not spiritual. The Spirit doesn’t have to act directly on me to discern who is and who is not spiritual.

CNKW3 · May 13, 2019

Angelina said:
Read Acts 10
44 While Peter was still saying these things, the Holy Spirit fell on all who heard the word. 45 And the believers from among the circumcised who had come with Peter were amazed, because the gift of the Holy Spirit was poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they were hearing them speaking in tongues and extolling God. Then Peter declared, 47 “Can anyone withhold water for baptizing these people, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?” 48 And he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked him to remain for some days.

What are you trying to say. The HS has never fallen on you like this. So what is your point?

CNKW3 · May 13, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
What happens if you are locked up in prison tomorrow and stayed there till the day you die. No bible. No way to get one. Will your relationship with God end? No bible. No relationship. For the rest of your days on earth since you are locked away in a prison you will spend it separated from God without a bible. Don’t get me wrong...I value what the written word reveals; only wondering if you’ve taken it too far in suggesting if someone took it from me tomorrow... they would also take away the relationship.

Romans 8:38-39
[38] For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, [39] Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

If I’m a child of God and I’m thrown in a prison I would think my relationship to God would get even stronger. I would have nothing to do but pray 24/7. The cares and distractions of everyday life are completely gone. But if I’m not a child of a God and I’m thrown in a prison with no access whatsoever to the gospel message? You may have waited too long.

Taken · May 13, 2019

CNKW3 said:
When’s he gonna open yours?

Surely you must know, one first has to be aware of the knowledge, before they can understand it.

I am not a mind reader, to know what you are wondering about.

What knowledge specific are you wondering IF I have the understanding thereof?

Glory to God,
Taken

CNKW3 · May 13, 2019

Taken said:
Surely you must know, one first has to be aware of the knowledge, before they can understand it.

I am not a mind reader, to know what you are wondering about.

What knowledge specific are you wondering IF I have the understanding thereof?

Glory to God,
Taken

Paul said that when you read what I wrote you can understand. And you say no, that is not right, the HS has to work first, I can’t just read and understand. So, I am just wondering when will the HS open your understanding?

Earburner · May 13, 2019

CNKW3 said:
The question in your first verse...is how does the father and son make their abode with this individual? Personally or representatively? I do not think deity lives in the individual. I believe that deity resides in a person who allows the words to guide their life. When one reads and studies and allows the message to direct their life then they can say that God, Jesus, HS is indwelling them.

As for your second verse....that was a promise made directly to the 12, it was not made to you and I. But when we read and are guided by what they wrote we too can say we are guided into all truth.

It is quite evident that you have not read, or at least understood the first few chapters in Acts.
You owe it to yourself to study what Pentecost is, and how Israel of faith had been waiting for "the Promise". It has been very relative and necessary for every generation, since Christ Ascended. So much so, that Paul gives every one a truthful and stern warning in Rom. 8:9.
Jesus implied that without his free Gift, no one can be guided into all truth. John 16:13.

CNKW3 · May 13, 2019

Earburner said:
It is quite evident that you have not read, or at least understood the first few chapters in Acts.
You owe it to yourself to study what Pentecost is, and how Israel of faith had been waiting for "the Promise". It has been very relative and necessary for every generation, since Christ Ascended. So much so, that Paul gives every one a truthful and stern warning in Rom. 8:9.
Jesus implied that without his free Gift, no one can be guided into all truth. John 16:13.

Pentecost was a jewish feast and this particular Pentecost was when the gospel was first preached. It started with the Jews, went to the Samaritans, and then to everyone. Why did it happen that way? Because that is what Jesus commanded. Acts 1

Taken · May 14, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Paul said that when you read what I wrote you can understand. And you say no,

Don't puts words in my mouth.
I did not say no.

I will stick with; the Lord opens a mans undertanding to the Lords own Word.

that is not right, the HS has to work first,

Nothing in man is Spiritually accomplished WITHOUT the Power of the Holy Spirit.

I can’t just read and understand.

I don't know you.

So, I am just wondering when will the HS open your understanding?

The Lord gives to me what He promised.

Glory to God,
Taken

VictoryinJesus · May 14, 2019

CNKW3 said:
In Mk 9 jesus told them that some would not taste death until they saw the kingdom come with power. Is that for everybody? No way.

“Some would not taste death until they saw the kingdom come with power.” Ask a few here and they may tell you they have saw the kingdom come in power before they taste of death. Especially considering with His body they were buried in the likeness of His death and raised in the same likeness of His resurrection into Life. 1 Corinthians 4:19-20 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

“Puffed up”= in the flesh
“Power”= of the Spirit.
Seems you are suggesting flesh since there is no more need of the Spirit. Are you suggesting Men can take it from here on? Only one problem...everything done in the power of men will come to nothing. Everything done in the power of the Spirit of God overcomes the power of death and sin. We are weak. He is strong.

CNKW3 said:
You don’t need the direct working of the Spirit to be a part of Christ’s kingdom.

flesh. If that is true then I truly must be reading a different bible than you.

CNKW3 said:
Of course he does. He doesn’t personally do it. It is still up to us to learn and to follow his will according to the HS word

(IMO)You have turned the bible into God ‘apart’ from a born again child, outside of them rather than the Spirit in them. His working and His power seen in weak vessels so ‘this world’ can not deny the effectual power of a mighty God. In denying the power within the weak vessel is of God; in doing so man is completely given the glory for reading and understanding and applying what the Spirit says is “Spiritually discerned” (a gift)and as you keep asserting: man does it on his own apart from the Spirit of God’s work within and through Him.
John 7:17-18 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

CNKW3 said:
I can discern that he is natural and following the wisdom of man

You can discern apart from the Spirit being within you? Didn’t want to bring it up in the other thread since it was off topic of that thread. but you had told @Bygrace that you could “feel the Holy Spirit” in most of her post. If you had said you could see truth...but you said you could “feel the Holy Spirit”. With what? IF the Holy Spirit or comforter is not within you...then by what do you feel the Holy Spirit working through another? I’m sorry. It makes no sense. Do you have the gift of ‘discernment’ given by the Holy Spirit or do you ‘discern’ and feel His workings on your own merit and intuition and power? How can you discern anything apart from God within you? Is it: The power of man. Or The power of God? Which gives you the power to discern another’s word as filled with the Holy Spirit? How can another’s word’s be filled with the Holy Spirit yet their words are apart from the bible? Are their words inspired then? By whom are their words inspired? Are you giving words apart from the bible as being inspired by you own authority and intuition?

CNKW3 said:
So, that message CAN NOT come from the Spirit. It is natural and not spiritual. The Spirit doesn’t have to act directly on me to discern who is and who is not spiritual.

Again “The Spirit doesn’t have to act directly on me to discern who is and who is not spirit.” Is claiming by your own intuition and authority and power you discern what you deny.

VictoryinJesus · May 14, 2019

CNKW3 said:
If you allow your influence to be through the wisdom of man you are natural.

In Man’s strength=natural
In God’s power=Spirit.

Isaiah 40:29-31
[29] He giveth power to the faint; and to them that have no might he increaseth strength. [30] Even the youths shall faint and be weary, and the young men shall utterly fall: [31] But they that wait upon the Lord shall renew their strength; they shall mount up with wings as eagles; they shall run, and not be weary; and they shall walk, and not faint.

2 Corinthians 4:16
[16] For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Pearl · May 14, 2019

I had to feed you with milk, not with solid food, because you weren’t ready for anything stronger. And you still aren’t ready, for you are still controlled by your sinful nature. You are jealous of one another and quarrel with each other. Doesn’t that prove you are controlled by your sinful nature? Aren’t you living like people of the world? When one of you says, “I am a follower of Paul,” and another says, “I follow Apollos,” aren’t you acting just like people of the world? 1 Corinthians 3:2-4 (NLT)

I fed you with milk and not with solid food; for until now you were not able to receive it, and even now you are still not able; for you are still carnal. For where there are envy, strife, and divisions among you, are you not carnal and behaving like mere men? For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not carnal? 1 Corinthians 3:2-4 (NKJV)

I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready.You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings? 1 Corinthians 3:2-4 (NIV)

CNKW3 · May 14, 2019

Taken said:
Don't puts words in my mouth.
I did not say no.

I will stick with; the Lord opens a mans undertanding to the Lords own Word.

Nothing in man is Spiritually accomplished WITHOUT the Power of the Holy Spirit.

I don't know you.

The Lord gives to me what He promised.

Glory to God,
Taken

Where does the power come from? You seem to be saying that the HS gives you the power directly apart from the word. I’m saying the HS gives us the power through his word. When we read, study and search the scriptures the HS will give us all we need. Thats what Paul said. When you read you can understand. You might not believe but you can understand.

We are to be like the bereans.
Acts 17:11-12 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word
doesn’t say they received a direct operation of the Spirit. When they received the word they received the spirit. The Spirit works through his word.

with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
They searched to verify what Paul was saying. The HS did not operate on them apart from the teaching and scriptures.

Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
The result was positive. Many believed. But sometimes the Spirit will work through the word and people reject it. I guess, according to your apparent teaching, the HS just didn’t do a good enough job on those who reject the word.

CNKW3 · May 14, 2019

VictoryinJesus said:
“Some would not taste death until they saw the kingdom come with power.” Ask a few here and they may tell you they have saw the kingdom come in power before they taste of death. Especially considering with His body they were buried in the likeness of His death and raised in the same likeness of His resurrection into Life. 1 Corinthians 4:19-20 But I will come to you shortly, if the Lord will, and will know, not the speech of them which are puffed up, but the power. [20] For the kingdom of God is not in word, but in power.

“Puffed up”= in the flesh
“Power”= of the Spirit.
Seems you are suggesting flesh since there is no more need of the Spirit. Are you suggesting Men can take it from here on? Only one problem...everything done in the power of men will come to nothing. Everything done in the power of the Spirit of God overcomes the power of death and sin. We are weak. He is strong.

flesh. If that is true then I truly must be reading a different bible than you.

(IMO)You have turned the bible into God ‘apart’ from a born again child, outside of them rather than the Spirit in them. His working and His power seen in weak vessels so ‘this world’ can not deny the effectual power of a mighty God. In denying the power within the weak vessel is of God; in doing so man is completely given the glory for reading and understanding and applying what the Spirit says is “Spiritually discerned” (a gift)and as you keep asserting: man does it on his own apart from the Spirit of God’s work within and through Him.
John 7:17-18 If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself. [18] He that speaketh of himself seeketh his own glory: but he that seeketh his glory that sent him, the same is true, and no unrighteousness is in him.

You can discern apart from the Spirit being within you? Didn’t want to bring it up in the other thread since it was off topic of that thread. but you had told @Bygrace that you could “feel the Holy Spirit” in most of her post. If you had said you could see truth...but you said you could “feel the Holy Spirit”. With what? IF the Holy Spirit or comforter is not within you...then by what do you feel the Holy Spirit working through another? I’m sorry. It makes no sense. Do you have the gift of ‘discernment’ given by the Holy Spirit or do you ‘discern’ and feel His workings on your own merit and intuition and power? How can you discern anything apart from God within you? Is it: The power of man. Or The power of God? Which gives you the power to discern another’s word as filled with the Holy Spirit? How can another’s word’s be filled with the Holy Spirit yet their words are apart from the bible? Are their words inspired then? By whom are their words inspired? Are you giving words apart from the bible as being inspired by you own authority and intuition?

Again “The Spirit doesn’t have to act directly on me to discern who is and who is not spirit.” Is claiming by your own intuition and authority and power you discern what you deny.

I never told anybody I could “feel the HS in their post”. You might want to look at that one again. The rest of this is you creating a narrative that makes you happy. Whatever. The truth of the word can’t change people dug in that deep.

In 1 Cor 4 Paul was writing to a church that literally had been given the power of the HS through miraculous gifts. That is what he meant by the kingdom being not in word, but in power. This is a classic not/but construction. The emphasis is on the second point but it doesn’t negate the necessity of the first.
Examples
Jn 6:27 Labour not for the meat which perisheth, but for that meat which endureth unto everlasting life,
According to your reasoning I guess jesus is saying we don’t have to work for our food. Hope you can see the absurdity in that.

1 John 3:18 My little children, let us not love in word, neither in tongue; but in deed and in truth.
Again, according to your reasoning and wisdom John is telling us we don’t have to love people in word or in tongue. If the HS is working directly on you he needs to do a better job.

Taken · May 14, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Where does the power come from?

Spiritual power? The Holy Spirit.

You seem to be saying that the HS gives you the power directly apart from the word.

I said no such thing.

Thats what Paul said. When you read you can understand.

Disagree.

You might not believe but you can understand.

Disagree.

Acts 17:11-12 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word
doesn’t say they received a direct operation of the Spirit. When they received the word they received the spirit. The Spirit works through his word.

with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.
They searched to verify what Paul was saying. The HS did not operate on them apart from the teaching and scriptures.

Therefore many of them believed; also of honourable women which were Greeks, and of men, not a few.
The result was positive. Many believed. But sometimes the Spirit will work through the word and people reject it.

I guess, according to your apparent teaching, the HS just didn’t do a good enough job on those who reject the word.

I said no such thing.

If you have a GRIPE against me, try to be forthright and use my words instead of words you try to put in my mouth.

Glory to God,
Taken

CNKW3 · May 14, 2019

Taken said:
Spiritual power? The Holy Spirit.

I said no such thing.

Disagree.

Disagree.

I said no such thing.

If you have a GRIPE against me, try to be forthright and use my words instead of words you try to put in my mouth.

Glory to God,
Taken

This is funny. I’ve said two or three different things and everyone of them you say...”that’s not e..didn’t say that”. Then why don’t you spell it out so someone as slow as me can know. Does the Spirit work directly through you or in some other Way?

1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

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