Waste

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VictoryinJesus

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Isaiah 54:16-17
[16] Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. [17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

What does the waster waste?
What does the waster destory?
 

Episkopos

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Isaiah 54:16-17
[16] Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. [17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

What does the waster waste?
What does the waster destory?

Have you ever noticed how the prophetic ministry of Jeremiah...the prophet of the nations...was tilted in favour of destruction after which comes the building back up?

Jer. 1:10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

So even in God's wasting...there is building coming. God will throw down everything that is not rooted in Him. Unless the Lord builds the house....
 

VictoryinJesus

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Have you ever noticed how the prophetic ministry of Jeremiah...the prophet of the nations...was tilted in favour of destruction after which comes the building back up?

Jer. 1:10 See, I have this day set thee over the nations and over the kingdoms, to root out, and to pull down, and to destroy, and to throw down, to build, and to plant.

So even in God's wasting...there is building coming. God will throw down everything that is not rooted in Him. Unless the Lord builds the house....

Exactly. was hoping the thread would go in the direction of “rebuilding” what has been wasted. Are people wasted? Isaiah 52:9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.


2 Corinthians 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:


Ephesians 2:17-22
[17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 
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Episkopos

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Exactly. was hoping the thread would go in the direction of “rebuilding” what has been wasted. Are people wasted? Isaiah 52:9 Break forth into joy, sing together, ye waste places of Jerusalem: for the Lord hath comforted his people, he hath redeemed Jerusalem.


2 Corinthians 10:8 For though I should boast somewhat more of our authority, which the Lord hath given us for edification, and not for your destruction, I should not be ashamed:


Ephesians 2:17-22
[17] And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh. [18] For through him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father. [19] Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

People so often resist God's work, not trusting that He can build better than before. Self-love and self-preservation keep us away from the cross of Christ that brings a death...but a more abundantly life as well. :)
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Have you ever noticed how the prophetic ministry of Jeremiah...the prophet of the nations...was tilted in favour of destruction after which comes the building back up?

Maybe Paul “tilted in favour of destruction after which comes the building back up?” In 1 Corinthians 5:3-8
[3] For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, [4] In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ, [5] To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus. [6] Your glorying is not good. Know ye not that a little leaven leaveneth the whole lump? [7] Purge out therefore the old leaven, that ye may be a new lump, as ye are unleavened. For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us: [8] Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Speaking of Paul. Galatians 1:12-13
[12] For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it , but by the revelation of Jesus Christ. [13] For ye have heard of my conversation in time past in the Jews' religion, how that beyond measure I persecuted the church of God, and wasted it:

We may not want to accept it but Paul “wasted” the church of God. How significant after the Revelation of Jesus Christ came to Saul that he remembered Stephen stoned as the coats were laid at Sauls feet. How significant Saul moved or passed from destruction to edification and the building up of the body. Without God we only know how to waste and destroy. This should be evident, that we once wasted lives and were vessels of destruction but brought out into the light of Jesus Christ and declared vessels of mercy to walk in newness of life. I’ve wasted those around me but I did it in ignorance. It is not excuse...I’m only saying I couldn’t see the destruction or the wasting away until He revealed a different way in He who came to give life rather than to destroy. What died with Christ is that which waste: steals, kills, and destroys. The waster destroyed ...a new creature formed and created from a life-giving (quickening) Spirit for the child of God to walk in newness of life rather than death and destruction. Paul said he wasted the Church, the people of God. If I told you I did the same...who would you say I served destruction or the rebuilding of what has been destroyed? Isaiah 58:12
[12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

The reason for this thread is “they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shall raise up the foundations of many generations...” the repair of the breach being The resurrected Son; the restorer of paths to dwell in. Consider all the times Paul spoke of building anew in Christ. The house of God growing. What is being “raised up” anew out of that which was wasted? The poor, the meek, the despised, the broken, the destitute, the despised, the desolate...

Proverbs 18:9-12
[9] He also that is slothful in his work is brother to him that is a great waster. [10] The name of the Lord is a strong tower: the righteous runneth into it, and is safe. [11] The rich man's wealth is his strong city, and as an high wall in his own conceit. [12] Before destruction the heart of man is haughty, and before honour is humility.

Can one that waste the church of God be called out of destruction to build again?
 
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Enoch111

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What does the waster waste? What does the waster destroy?
The land of Israel was laid waste because of their sins:
Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. (Isa 1:7)
For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory. (Isa 3:8)
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it. (Isa 5:4-6)
 

VictoryinJesus

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The land of Israel was laid waste because of their sins:
Your country is desolate, your cities are burned with fire: your land, strangers devour it in your presence, and it is desolate, as overthrown by strangers. (Isa 1:7)
For Jerusalem is ruined, and Judah is fallen: because their tongue and their doings are against the LORD, to provoke the eyes of his glory. (Isa 3:8)
What could have been done more to my vineyard, that I have not done in it? wherefore, when I looked that it should bring forth grapes, brought it forth wild grapes? And now go to; I will tell you what I will do to my vineyard: I will take away the hedge thereof, and it shall be eaten up; and break down the wall thereof, and it shall be trodden down: And I will lay it waste: it shall not be pruned, nor digged; but there shall come up briers and thorns: I will also command the clouds that they rain no rain upon it. (Isa 5:4-6)

Giving several passages to consider. What is the House of God? What are the waste places of Isaiah 58:11-12
[11] And the Lord shall guide thee continually, and satisfy thy soul in drought, and make fat thy bones: and thou shalt be like a watered garden, and like a spring of water, whose waters fail not. [12] And they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places: thou shalt raise up the foundations of many generations; and thou shalt be called, The repairer of the breach, The restorer of paths to dwell in.

“Like a spring of water, whose waters fail not.” Can only be One. “The restorer of paths to dwell in.” Can only be One. The above says “they that shall be of thee shall build the old waste places” who is the focus of “they that shall be of thee”...of who?

Isaiah 51:3
[3] For the Lord shall comfort Zion: he will comfort all her waste places; and he will make her wilderness like Eden, and her desert like the garden of the Lord ; joy and gladness shall be found therein, thanksgiving, and the voice of melody.

Isaiah 54:11-17
O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires. [12] And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones. [13] And all thy children shall be taught of the Lord ; and great shall be the peace of thy children. [14] In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee. [15] Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake. [16] Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy. [17] No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the Lord , and their righteousness is of me, saith the Lord .

“No weapon formed against you shall prosper.”... “Their righteousness is on me, saith the Lord.”

Was Paul called and given the Revelation of Jesus Christ to build the waste places?

Ephesians 2:19-22
Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.

“Together growth” build up for an habitation of God through the Spirit. “No weapon formed against you shall prosper.” —Matthew 16:17-18 KJV
[17] And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. [18] And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Asked and answered in post #7. The land of Israel (specifically the kingdom of Judah) was laid waste because of their sins and idolatry.

This is not about Paul and the Church, and everything should be kept in its proper context.

Then why does Paul in speaking of the building of the Spiritual habitation of God, Paul includes the prophets with the apostles as Christ as the chief corner stone? How can the House of God be divided. Been here before I think... and still I don’t get it. It would help maybe if you would clarify if Ephesians 2:19-22 is the habitation of God? “Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellowcitizens with the saints, and of the household of God; [20] And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone ; [21] In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: [22] In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Asked and answered in post #7. The land of Israel (specifically the kingdom of Judah) was laid waste because of their sins and idolatry.

Isn’t everything outside of Him laid waste, made desolate because of sin?
 

Enoch111

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Then why does Paul in speaking of the building of the Spiritual habitation of God, Paul includes the prophets with the apostles as Christ as the chief corner stone?
Good question though unrelated to the waste places of Israel. Here is a picture of a building under construction:
upload_2019-5-15_16-14-3.png

1. CHRIST IS THE PRIMARY FOUNDATION AS WELL AS THE CORNERSTONE
2. THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS ARE THE NEXT FOUNDATION
3. THE CHURCH IS BUILT UPON THESE FOUNDATIONS
4. THE CHURCH IS THE BUILDING AND HABITATION OF GOD
5. GOD (FATHER, SON, AND HOLY SPIRIT) DWELLS WITHIN EACH ONE.


So in what sense are the apostles (New Testament) and the Prophets (Old Testament) a part of the foundation (or a secondary foundation)? Quite simply without the Bible we would know nothing about Christ or the Gospel. But it is by the preaching of the Gospel that men and women are saved. But they are not saved to remain babes in Christ. Therefore all Scripture is given for (1) doctrine, (2) reproof, (3) correction and (4) instruction in righteousness. Thus the words of Christ and those of the apostles and prophets build up the Church, so that Christians mature in Christ. See Ephesians 4.
How can the House of God be divided.
God's house cannot be divided. Therefore each person who receives the gift of the Holy Spirit is then placed (baptized) by the Spirit into the Body of Christ. And there is only one Body and one Head (Christ).

For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ. For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit. (1 Cor 12:12,13)
 

VictoryinJesus

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Good question though unrelated to the waste places of Israel. Here is a picture of a building under construction:
6867_edabc26a2da5dce139818078e15ad761.png

What does this building under construction have to do with the building of the spiritual house of God with Christ as the chief corner stone?
 

Enoch111

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What does this building under construction have to do with the building of the spiritual house of God with Christ as the chief corner stone?
It gives you a visual. A picture is worth a thousand words. The Church is under construction.
 

VictoryinJesus

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Asked and answered in post #7. The land of Israel (specifically the kingdom of Judah) was laid waste because of their sins and idolatry.

This is not about Paul and the Church, and everything should be kept in its proper context.

The waster doesn't waste only Israel.

Good question though unrelated to the waste places of Israel.

“...waste places of Israel.” See what you are saying but Isaiah 28:22 says
[22] Now therefore be ye not mockers, lest your bands be made strong: for I have heard from the Lord God of hosts a consumption, even determined upon the whole earth.

“determined upon the whole earth.”

Luke 18:14
[14] I tell you, this man went down to his house justified rather than the other: for every one that exalteth himself shall be abased; and he that humbleth himself shall be exalted.
 

Enoch111

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Do you mean Spiritually built up?
Both spiritually and numerically. God has a specific number of Gentiles in mind which will be added to the Church. This is called "the fulness of the Gentiles (Rom 11:25) and once that number is complete, the Church will be raptured.

But the apostles and prophets (the Bible) is for the edification or building up of individual Christians, along with the spiritual gifts. There is milk for the babes and meat for the mature in Scripture. And just like physical food enhances physical growth, spiritual food enhances spiritual growth. But too many churches are staying with Pablum.
 
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VictoryinJesus

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Both spiritually and numerically. God has a specific number of Gentiles in mind which will be added to the Church. This is called "the fulness of the Gentiles (Rom 11:25) and once that number is complete, the Church will be raptured.

But the apostles and prophets (the Bible) is for the edification or building up of individual Christians, along with the spiritual gifts. There is milk for the babes and meat for the mature in Scripture. And just like physical food enhances physical growth, spiritual food enhances spiritual growth. But too many churches are staying with Pablum.

Would agree except for the rapture. Never heard “numerically” though. Thank you.