The Flawed Reasoning Of Total Depravity

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Preacher4Truth

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I was hoping for a simple answer inviting discussion. I've actually read quite a bit of material of this sort.

And listened to quite a number of reformed preachers.

Oh well. I guess this is an answer.

@marks ...We know and you know that you cannot and have not refuted anything we've offered. In fact none of your ilk have. Instead of deflecting and ignoring, engage the Scripture and the contextual interpretation we offer. Stop fighting the truth.
 

CoreIssue

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@marks ...We know and you know that you cannot and have not refuted anything we've offered. In fact none of your ilk have. Instead of deflecting and ignoring, engage the Scripture and the contextual interpretation we offer. Stop fighting the truth.
What is the point?

By your beliefs God rolled the dice for any of us were born and some of us were destined for hell and some for heaven.

The heavenly lottery.
 
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marks

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@marks ...We know and you know that you cannot and have not refuted anything we've offered. In fact none of your ilk have. Instead of deflecting and ignoring, engage the Scripture and the contextual interpretation we offer. Stop fighting the truth.

So no reply, and no discussion.

No surprise.
 
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marks

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If you want a discussion go over this line by line.
If you agree keep going.
When you do not agree post which sentence you do not agree with, and offer scripture why you think it is wrong.

So you don't care to comment on my question then, that is right?

It doesn't seem that anyone does. It seems a simple thing to me.

Much love!
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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So you don't care to comment on my question then, that is right?

It doesn't seem that anyone does. It seems a simple thing to me.

Much love!
My comments are not as solid as the link I posted.
These godly men spent a long time wording those answers.
If you invest the time you will learn truth.
I said I would comment if you find anything in the 1689 on this topic that you believe is unbiblical.
Examining it line by line helps by showing what you agree on, and what you do not.
It is a reasonable request.
 
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Anthony D'Arienzo

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What is the point?

By your beliefs God rolled the dice for any of us were born and some of us were destined for hell and some for heaven.

The heavenly lottery.
This post is exceedingly profane
No godly person would speak of the Holy God in such a cavalier way. Do you profess to be a Christian? Or something else?
 

marks

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My comments are not as solid as the link I posted.
These godly men spent a long time wording those answers.
If you invest the time you will learn truth.
I said I would comment if you find anything in the 1689 on this topic that you believe is unbiblical.
Examining it line by line helps by showing what you agree on, and what you do not.
It is a reasonable request.
OK. Well, I've already spent quite a number of years studying this topic.

That's why I distilled my understanding into a couple of paragraphs.

It was alledged that I was misrepresenting the opposing viewpoint. So I thought I'd do a little reality check to make sure the doctrine which I thought some of your were supporting was actually what you believed.

But apparently no one is willing to engage me in that way. The only response I've gotten is from you, which I appreciate, but then you're just sending me off to more reading, and engage some document point by point by point.

What I've been responding to is the challenge of my misrepresentation of that viewpoint.

So. Have I correctly represented your view? Or not?

I keep hoping for a discussion, however, you need not, it's up to you, and as I'm repeating myself, I understand if you do not wish to repeat yourself.

Much love!
Mark
 
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Preacher4Truth

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What is the point?

By your beliefs God rolled the dice for any of us were born and some of us were destined for hell and some for heaven.

The heavenly lottery.
I'm not speaking of the God of the Bible. I'm speaking of the god of Calvinism.
All you do is show that you hate God and his ways and are not acquainted with the true God of Scripture. This is why you insult him, and are offended at him.

He elected whom he willed to elect, according to his purpose and wisdom; Romans 9; Ephesians 1; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 &c. The One you are mocking is the God of Scripture, and you are hostile in your mind toward him, and at enmity with him; Romans 8:7 &c.

Now, the little bellhop you call god that chose you because you came to him and chose him first is nowhere found in Scripture. You created that idol and golden calf yourself.

It's sad you're so deceived and have a little false god that you say things about that aren't in Scripture, especially your falsifying of the true God's word in Romans 8.

Day after day on here you falsify things and show that you're at enmity with God. Your alleged 59 years of study are, well, untrue. You rarely, if ever, bring a Biblical case. And you didn't begin a near 60 year study of Bible since you were like 9 years old. That's bovine scatology, your lack of any biblical acumen paints the true picture, and your outright hatred of others does as well.
 
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SovereignGrace

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This post is exceedingly profane
No godly person would speak of the Holy God in such a cavalier way. Do you profess to be a Christian? Or something else?
That’s all he’s got. He’s his own god and must attack the God of the Bible. There’s a judgment day coming his way some day.
 

SovereignGrace

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All you do is show that you hate God and his ways and are not acquainted with the true God of Scripture. This is why you insult him, and are offended at him.

He elected whom he willed to elect, according to his purpose and wisdom; Romans 9; Ephesians 1; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 &c. The One you are mocking is the God of Scripture, and you are hostile in your mind toward him, and at enmity with him; Romans 8:7 &c.

Now, the little bellhop you call god that chose you because you came to him and chose him first is nowhere found in Scripture. You created that idol and golden calf yourself.

It's sad you're so deceived and have a little false god that you say things about that aren't in Scripture, especially your falsifying of the true God's word in Romans 8.

Day after day on here you falsify things and show that you're at enmity with God. Your alleged 59 years of study are, well, untrue. You rarely, if ever, bring a Biblical case. And you didn't begin a near 60 year study of Bible since you were like 9 years old. That's bovine scatology, your lack of any biblical acumen paints the true picture, and your outright hatred of others does as well.
Beep....blooop.....whiiiirrrrrllllll....buzzzzz....beep....bop....a robot....whirrrrr....swizzzz.....boop....blop...a robot....burrrrrh....wooooo....whoooomp there it is....bleep....a robot....
 

SovereignGrace

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What is the point?

By your beliefs God rolled the dice for any of us were born and some of us were destined for hell and some for heaven.

The heavenly lottery.
And yours has ppl winning the election and electing themselves into heaven. Give it up man. You have no idea our beliefs, so you go on a tirade like a baby with a dirty diaper on.

#Whaaaaaaah!
 
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SovereignGrace

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All you do is show that you hate God and his ways and are not acquainted with the true God of Scripture. This is why you insult him, and are offended at him.

He elected whom he willed to elect, according to his purpose and wisdom; Romans 9; Ephesians 1; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 &c. The One you are mocking is the God of Scripture, and you are hostile in your mind toward him, and at enmity with him; Romans 8:7 &c.

Now, the little bellhop you call god that chose you because you came to him and chose him first is nowhere found in Scripture. You created that idol and golden calf yourself.

It's sad you're so deceived and have a little false god that you say things about that aren't in Scripture, especially your falsifying of the true God's word in Romans 8.

Day after day on here you falsify things and show that you're at enmity with God. Your alleged 59 years of study are, well, untrue. You rarely, if ever, bring a Biblical case. And you didn't begin a near 60 year study of Bible since you were like 9 years old. That's bovine scatology, your lack of any biblical acumen paints the true picture, and your outright hatred of others does as well.
Oh, by the way. Quit being so mean by using exegesis and stuff. It makes us look mean by using the Bible...you know..that book they rarely, if ever, read.

#cutnpastetheology
 
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marks

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This post is exceedingly profane
No godly person would speak of the Holy God in such a cavalier way.

Now, the little bellhop you call god that chose you because you came to him and chose him first is nowhere found in Scripture. You created that idol and golden calf yourself.

It's sad you're so deceived and have a little false god that you say things about that aren't in Scripture, especially your falsifying of the true God's word in Romans 8.

A God Who created mankind the object of His love.

A God Who created all people to know Him and love Him.

A God Who became a Man, Who suffered and died a Man, to repair the breach of sin.

A God Who gave Himself to offer a restoration to all people back into His love.

A God Who pleads with all who will listen, Who receives all who will come, Who loves all people He created.

I could go on.

But my point is, do you know how offensive to me these above words are? "your false little bellhop god"

So I ask you. Can a person who does not believe salvation comes the way you believe it to still be saved?

Which is the relevant fact? Trusting Jesus? Or believing your view of election?

Can a man or woman who does not profess your view of election nonetheless be one of God's children?

Much love!
 
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marks

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You know what? As I read more of these posts I realize, best to stop here. So that's what I'm doing.

Much love!
 
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SovereignGrace

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A God Who created mankind the object of His love.

A God Who created all people to know Him and love Him.

A God Who became a Man, Who suffered and died a Man, to repair the breach of sin.

A God Who gave Himself to offer a restoration to all people back into His love.

A God Who pleads with all who will listen, Who receives all who will come, Who loves all people He created.

I could go on.

But my point is, do you know how offensive to me these above words are? "your false little bellhop god"

So I ask you. Can a person who does not believe salvation comes the way you believe it to still be saved?

Which is the relevant fact? Trusting Jesus? Or believing your view of election?

Can a man or woman who does not profess your view of election nonetheless be one of God's children?

Much love!
Until you come to grasp with these facts...

Adam acted as the representative of all mankind, and when he fell, all his posterity fell, being in him. It was as if everyone did what Adam did.

The Christ came to redeem them He represented. He did NOT represent all mankind, but lived the sinless life the Law demanded. He died their death, being His sheep’s representative. He rose for their justification. If He represented all mankind, then He rose and justified all mankind. If all mankind were justified by His resurrection, then all mankind will be saved.
 

CoreIssue

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All you do is show that you hate God and his ways and are not acquainted with the true God of Scripture. This is why you insult him, and are offended at him.

He elected whom he willed to elect, according to his purpose and wisdom; Romans 9; Ephesians 1; 1 Corinthians 1:26-31 &c. The One you are mocking is the God of Scripture, and you are hostile in your mind toward him, and at enmity with him; Romans 8:7 &c.

Now, the little bellhop you call god that chose you because you came to him and chose him first is nowhere found in Scripture. You created that idol and golden calf yourself.

It's sad you're so deceived and have a little false god that you say things about that aren't in Scripture, especially your falsifying of the true God's word in Romans 8.

Day after day on here you falsify things and show that you're at enmity with God. Your alleged 59 years of study are, well, untrue. You rarely, if ever, bring a Biblical case. And you didn't begin a near 60 year study of Bible since you were like 9 years old. That's bovine scatology, your lack of any biblical acumen paints the true picture, and your outright hatred of others does as well.
I reject what you believe.
 
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CoreIssue

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And yours has ppl winning the election and electing themselves into heaven. Give it up man. You have no idea our beliefs, so you go on a tirade like a baby with a dirty diaper on.

#Whaaaaaaah!
False claims. You do not know what you're talking about.

Thread Calvinism is a cult covers all of this. I'm not going to re-create 117Pages here.
 
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marks

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Until you come to grasp with these facts...

Again you do not come right out and say it, leaving someone else to have to do it for you. Just tell me if you disagree.

Your view then is that

one such as me who believes from Scripture that God reconciled all, and now urges each to be reconciled,

one such as me, who believes God actually meant what He said, whosoever believes, all who are weary, I could go on,

who believes that Jesus' death was sufficient for all humanity, God not being stingy, has forgiveness for all, not just some, not being a respecter of persons,

One such as me is not born again.

In God's boundless love!
 
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Laish

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What is the point?

By your beliefs God rolled the dice for any of us were born and some of us were destined for hell and some for heaven.

The heavenly lottery.
Do you really believe that is what Reformed people believe ?
Sir this is further from the truth than one can imagine. I won’t be petty and reply with some quip . Trying to one up ya .I will just pray. I am sorry you and others that agree with your point see it that way .
You don’t have to agree with Reformed folks but this and the cult stuff is ...
Let it go unsaid.
Still Blessings
Bill
 
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