Please explain to me why students need to make up cutesy names for things they disagree with. I looked up "secessionist" at wikipedia and got a page of possible meanings, none of which seem to apply to this topic. So what exactly are you trying to say here?
GIFTS OF THE SPIRIT
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Please explain to me why students need to make up cutesy names for things they disagree with. I looked up "secessionist" at wikipedia and got a page of possible meanings, none of which seem to apply to this topic. So what exactly are you trying to say here?
Helen
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Haha! And that coming from a person using "Wafer" as a avatar name.
"secessionist" is very commonly used in biblical circles. But obviously not 'your circle'.
Welcome to the Site.
When it comes with these man-made doctrinal monikers I'm with you. I'm a religious term abolitionist. I would only be a secessionist in ending these doctrines.
But a secessionist is one who follows other people who also believe the gifts of the Spirit have ended.
Welcome to the forum! You look a tad younger than the average poster around here...since there are a lot of old timers. But that's to be expected with a new member.
In Christianity, cessationism is the doctrine that spiritual gifts such as speaking in tongues, prophecy and healing ceased with the apostolic age. This is generally opposed to continuationism, which teaches that the Holy Spirit may bestow the spiritual gifts on persons other than the original twelve apostles at any time. Cessationists believe that when the Old Testament canon closed at Malachi, for the next 400 years until John the Baptist, the gifts had ceased. Similarly, when the New Testament canon closed the gifts ceased. WIKIPEDIA.
In the pure sense of the scripture probably not. I spoke to two ministers fraternals in two different towns and presented a plan how they could work together evangelising the people. One said that it was their job to do things like that so go away and the other said they don't have time for evangelism as they were too busy running their churches.
Evidence please. There is no use making statements if you don't have anything to back it up. When I came across the apostolic ministry in action, it had nothing at all to do with Pentecostalism. At the time I was in a Baptist Church.
And read my post at 108.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I was dealing with the claim that's three apostles had been replaced without any evidence offered to who they were talking about.
So backing for that claim has to be given before I can address it.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
As far as apostles continuing after the originals, there is zero scriptural support.
But remember the apostles were given extraordinary power and position.
But these 60 something they sent out didn't have a power or position position, but they still play critical roles that continue today in missionaries, witnesses, etc.
Now to get onto the nine gifts which are being given today.
The first one is wisdom. This one is very interesting as it comes from the Greek word Sophia from which we get sophism which is explained as wisdom, higher or lower, worldly or spiritual. However, a sophist is one who gets to the core of the matter but he may want to deceive. So in that respect, we need our spiritual antenna up and seeking to sort out the good from the bad.
In the spiritual sense, it can be that a person gets to the core of the matter after some discussion and it is obvious that what he says is the guidance you are looking for. I don't see it as some sort of spiritual activity like prophecy where one may stand in a meeting and give forth. Rather as the Holy Spirit giving someone the ability to cut through a problem with an answer that is very clearly inspired by the Holy Spirit and recognized as such.
I remember when I was at Bible College we had a citywide teaching campaign. I was on the organizing committee and during our preparations, we had a feeling we were missing something so the committee decided to spend the weekend in fasting and prayer.
Unfortunately, I was away that weekend but I fasted and prayed where I was which made the weekend very cheap for my host. During the time of praying the Lord gave me a verse of scripture which when I looked it up seemed to be the answer to our situation.
When I got back, I told the committee and they all agreed that was what was missing in our planning so we changed track and everything fell into place. As a result, the campaign turned out to be a real success.
Just a word here about the validity of the nine gifts. I tend to accept any gift that is in operation regardless who the vessel is until I get a warning from the Lord that the gift is false and the product of someone's imagination or desire to be seen or in some cases to throw the meeting off track. I will deal more with this when I come to discernment.
The first one is wisdom. This one is very interesting as it comes from the Greek word Sophia from which we get sophism which is explained as wisdom, higher or lower, worldly or spiritual. However, a sophist is one who gets to the core of the matter but he may want to deceive. So in that respect, we need our spiritual antenna up and seeking to sort out the good from the bad.
In the spiritual sense, it can be that a person gets to the core of the matter after some discussion and it is obvious that what he says is the guidance you are looking for. I don't see it as some sort of spiritual activity like prophecy where one may stand in a meeting and give forth. Rather as the Holy Spirit giving someone the ability to cut through a problem with an answer that is very clearly inspired by the Holy Spirit and recognized as such.
I remember when I was at Bible College we had a citywide teaching campaign. I was on the organizing committee and during our preparations, we had a feeling we were missing something so the committee decided to spend the weekend in fasting and prayer.
Unfortunately, I was away that weekend but I fasted and prayed where I was which made the weekend very cheap for my host. During the time of praying the Lord gave me a verse of scripture which when I looked it up seemed to be the answer to our situation.
When I got back, I told the committee and they all agreed that was what was missing in our planning so we changed track and everything fell into place. As a result, the campaign turned out to be a real success.
Just a word here about the validity of the nine gifts. I tend to accept any gift that is in operation regardless who the vessel is until I get a warning from the Lord that the gift is false and the product of someone's imagination or desire to be seen or in some cases to throw the meeting off track. I will deal more with this when I come to discernment.
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You said...There are no apostles today. That role was unique to the beginning of the church.
That is dealing with apostles today, not three in scripture.
And this thread is to unravel the use of the nine gifts of the Spirit today, so you trying to convince us they do not exist is a waste of time because it is obvious that everyone except you believes that. If that is so important to you, then I suggest you start a new thread.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
The post you responded to was a reply were someone said three apostles had been replaced.
I only remember to so I asked the question who.
In another post I made a comment about apostles today.
Simply being there are not any because apostles had unique authority and unique power no one else had.
Yes so you keep saying but we do not accept your premise, as this is my thread, I suggest that you start your own and make your arguments.
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So Paul was not an apostle?
Rom_1:1 From Paul, a servant of Christ Jesus. God chose me to be an apostle, and he appointed me to preach the good news
Rom_1:5 Jesus was kind to me and chose me to be an apostle, so that people of all nations would obey and have faith.
Rom_11:13 I am now speaking to you Gentiles, and as long as I am an apostle to you, I will take pride in my work.
1Co_1:1 From Paul, chosen by God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from Sosthenes, who is also a follower.
1Co_9:1 I am free. I am an apostle. I have seen the Lord Jesus and have led you to have faith in him.
1Co_9:2 Others may think that I am not an apostle, but you are proof that I am an apostle to you.
1Co_15:9 I am the least important of all the apostles. In fact, I caused so much trouble for God's church that I don't even deserve to be called an apostle.
2Co_1:1 From Paul, chosen by God to be an apostle of Jesus Christ, and from Timothy, who is also a follower. To God's church in Corinth and to all of God's people in Achaia.
2Co_12:12 When I was with you, I was patient and worked all the powerful miracles and signs and wonders of a true apostle.
Gal_1:1 From the apostle Paul and from all the Lord's followers with me. I was chosen to be an apostle by Jesus Christ and by God the Father, who raised him from death. No mere human chose or appointed me to this work. To the churches in Galatia.
Eph_1:1 From Paul, chosen by God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. To God's people who live in Ephesus and are faithful followers of Christ Jesus.
Col_1:1 From Paul, chosen by God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and from Timothy, who is also a follower.
1Ti_1:1 From Paul. God our Savior and Christ Jesus commanded me to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, who gives us hope.
1Ti_2:7 This is why God chose me to be a preacher and an apostle of the good news. I am telling the truth. I am not lying. God sent me to teach the Gentiles about faith and truth.
2Ti_1:1 From Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus. God himself chose me to be an apostle, and he gave me the promised life that Jesus Christ makes possible.
2Ti_1:11 My work is to be a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher.
Tit_1:1 From Paul, a servant of God and an apostle of Jesus Christ. I encourage God's own people to have more faith and to understand the truth about religion.
If he isn't then it is clear God does not agree with you and if he is, then your theory that they ceased after the 12 is wrong.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
I never said that. He most assuredly was called by God.
There is debate on whether he was an apostle or not, but that is pointless to me.
Let me phrase it this way, when John died that was it for the apostles.
When it comes with these man-made doctrinal monikers I'm with you. I'm a religious term abolitionist. I would only be a secessionist in ending these doctrines.
But a secessionist is one who follows other people who also believe the gifts of the Spirit have ended.
Welcome to the forum! You look a tad younger than the average poster around here...since there are a lot of old timers. But that's to be expected with a new member.
I'm older'n dirt. And they are not gifts, they are manifestations. All confusion is dispelled when people actually read their bibles instead of quoting bulloney they heard from random preachers.
The bible names 18 apostles and alludes to 7 more.
Ephesians 4:11-12 King James Version (KJV)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;
12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ:
Do we still have prophets? Then we must have some apostles. Do we still have pastors and teachers? Then we must have some apostles, prophets and evangelists.
Another mistaken assumption: Evangelists are not given to drag in new believers, they are given to benefit those who are already members of the church.
CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
Your quote was prior to John.
Are there people out there getting bit by poisonous snakes and shaking them off into a fire?
Are there people out there writing new books to the Bible?
The answer to both is no.
The apostles and wrote the New Testament which closed with John.
Jesus said everything went continue until it was fulfilled. The role of the apostles has been fulfilled.
Gifts of the Spirit--->OP
Just wanted to Share...
A few weeks ago my mother in law passed away...
She loved the Lord and passed in peace.
I count that as an ultimate blessing.
My cousin has been in a coma for 11 days.
She loves the Lord and our family feels blessed she is in comfort.
One of our daughters who is profoundly deaf and feared having a baby is going to have her first child this summer, and has become full of joy.
God is Good.
Be it a death, a struggle, a new life; Gods Blessings take us on this journey with comfort and joy.
Bless our Great Lord God Almighty,
Taken
Just wanted to Share...
A few weeks ago my mother in law passed away...
She loved the Lord and passed in peace.
I count that as an ultimate blessing.
My cousin has been in a coma for 11 days.
She loves the Lord and our family feels blessed she is in comfort.
One of our daughters who is profoundly deaf and feared having a baby is going to have her first child this summer, and has become full of joy.
God is Good.
Be it a death, a struggle, a new life; Gods Blessings take us on this journey with comfort and joy.
Bless our Great Lord God Almighty,
Taken
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CoreIssue
Well-Known Member
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