THE NEW TESTAMENT AND WHAT THE CHURCH HAS TO LOSE

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Doug

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The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new testament. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new testament is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ.


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is the new coveanant which God made with the house of Israel, not with the church, the body of Christ.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

The body of Christ was not promised a land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

If the church is in the new testament, then we are declared to be unclean. The church, however has been cleansed in Christ (Ephesians 5:26).

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The church does not have any fathers and we don't have any land. The church has a position in the heavenly places; being placed in the covenant would rob us of our spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

The times of refreshing is the coming of the Lord. Israel is waiting for their salvation when Christ comes. Saying that the church is under the new testament denies that the church has forgiveness in Christ now (Ephesians 1:7).

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Israel's salvation is future and putting the church in the covenant would rob us of the power of God for our salvation which we now have (Romans 1:16).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus says it is the "covenant unto them", which is Israel and not the church.
 

101G

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This is the new coveanant which God made with the house of Israel, not with the church, the body of Christ.
this same question keep coming up over and over. the "HOUSE" of Israel is not the "TRIBES" of Israel. the house of Israel is all over the world, scattered. and God is rebuilding the HOUSE, and many and all are included.
The church does not have any fathers and we don't have any land. The church has a position in the heavenly places; being placed in the covenant would rob us of our spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).
not saying that you'r right or wrong, but consider this. the promise was made to Abraham "seed" and not "seeds". so question, as natural Israel, "Every place that the sole of your foot shall tread upon, (promise land), that have I given unto you, as I said unto Moses", this is the Natural seeds which is the example of the "SEED" land to come. but the spiritual seed has went into all the world by natural feet. scripture, Romans 10:14 "How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher?
Romans 10:15 "And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!Romans 10:16 "But they have not all obeyed the gospel. For Esaias saith, Lord, who hath believed our report?
Romans 10:17 "So then faith [cometh] by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.
Romans 10:18 "But I say, Have they not heard? Yes verily, their sound went into all the earth, and their words unto the ends of the world".

so the Land of the church is all the earth, and the fullness of it. which fulfills the promise, Genesis 17:4 "As for me, behold, my covenant [is] with thee, and thou shalt be a father of many nations".

and as of father's start wirh Abraham, and follow the line to the "FATHER, of Isaiah 9:6. who is everlasting.

PICJAG.
 

Harvest 1874

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The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new testament. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new testament is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ.


Jeremiah 31:31 Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:


31:32 Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that I took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although I was an husband unto them, saith the LORD:

31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.

This is the new coveanant which God made with the house of Israel, not with the church, the body of Christ.

Ezekiel 36:24 For I will take you from among the heathen, and gather you out of all countries, and will bring you into your own land.

The body of Christ was not promised a land.

36:25 Then will I sprinkle clean water upon you, and ye shall be clean: from all your filthiness, and from all your idols, will I cleanse you.

If the church is in the new testament, then we are declared to be unclean. The church, however has been cleansed in Christ (Ephesians 5:26).

36:28 And ye shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers; and ye shall be my people, and I will be your God.

The church does not have any fathers and we don't have any land. The church has a position in the heavenly places; being placed in the covenant would rob us of our spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

The times of refreshing is the coming of the Lord. Israel is waiting for their salvation when Christ comes. Saying that the church is under the new testament denies that the church has forgiveness in Christ now (Ephesians 1:7).

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Israel's salvation is future and putting the church in the covenant would rob us of the power of God for our salvation which we now have (Romans 1:16).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus says it is the "covenant unto them", which is Israel and not the church.

Although we’re glad to see that you understand that the New Covenant is to be made with Israel (and through them to the rest of the world), and not the Church where you make your mistake however (unless this was merely a slip on your part) is in assuming that this covenant is already in place.

Your statement in reference to Jer 31:31, viz. “This is the new covenant which God made (past tense) with the house of Israel, not with the church, the body of Christ.”

God has not made any such covenant with Israel yet, for this covenant has yet to have been fully sealed, it awaits the completion of the Mediator of that covenant, the Christ head and body complete.

Behold the days are coming…” but they are not here yet.

Many are under the false impression that immediately upon his death our Lord sealed the New Covenant with his blood and become mediator of that New Covenant.

The Scriptures nowhere say that our Lord sealed the New Covenant with his blood. Neither was it necessary for him to seal the New Covenant before he would be its Mediator. He was the Mediator of the New Covenant in the Divine purpose and promise centuries before he became the man Christ Jesus. He was the Mediator of the New Covenant when born in Bethlehem in exactly the same sense that he was then the Savior of the world: not because he had sealed the New Covenant nor because he had saved the world, but because he was the One through whom the world's salvation and the New Covenant for its blessing were eventually to be accomplished.

Our Lord has not yet saved the world, nor has he acted as the Mediator of the New Covenant but he will accomplish both purposes during the Millennial Age; and at its conclusion the prophecy will be fulfilled, "He shall see of the travail of his soul and shall be satisfied."

Our Lord was privileged to offer his Church a share with himself in his Mediatorial Kingdom on condition that she would share in his cup of suffering and self-sacrifice--share in his baptism into his death. So doing she shall share his reward of glory, honor and immortality in "his resurrection." (Phil. 3:10) And sharing his glory and throne as his joint-sacrificer and joint-heir of the promise she would be with him jointly the Mediator between God and men--the world—during the Millennial Age--the work of reconciling the world, or so many of them as may prove willing to receive the blessing of regeneration.

As soon as the Church is complete and enters in beyond the vail, then the blood or merit which has been passing through the Church, will be sprinkled on the Mercy Seat, and it will seal the New Covenant.
 

Windmillcharge

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The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new testament. If that would be the case, then we need to examine what the new testament is and how that would affect our understanding of what the church has in Christ.


The church does not have any fathers and we don't have any land. The church has a position in the heavenly places; being placed in the covenant would rob us of our spiritual blessings (Ephesians 1:3).

Acts 3:19 Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord;

The times of refreshing is the coming of the Lord. Israel is waiting for their salvation when Christ comes. Saying that the church is under the new testament denies that the church has forgiveness in Christ now (Ephesians 1:7).

1 Peter 1:5 Who are kept by the power of God through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

Israel's salvation is future and putting the church in the covenant would rob us of the power of God for our salvation which we now have (Romans 1:16).

Romans 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:

11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

Jesus says it is the "covenant unto them", which is Israel and not the church.

"the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new testament."

If that is true why do you quote from it?

Either we have the NT in which case your arguement is pointless or we don't have it. In which case what were you quoting from, that was not the OT?
 
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Harvest 1874

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"the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new testament."

If that is true why do you quote from it?

Either we have the NT in which case your arguement is pointless or we don't have it. In which case what were you quoting from, that was not the OT?

I believe our friend Doug when referring to the New Testament was referring to the New Covenant, not the written testimony or testament, but the covenant or contract which the LORD will make with the nation of Israel in the future, although it is true that the New Covenant has been spoken of as the New Testament as well.

For this reason He is the mediator of a new covenant, so that, since a death has taken place for the redemption of the transgressions that were committed under the first covenant, those who have been called may receive the promise of the eternal inheritance.” (Heb 9:15 NASB)

And for this cause he is the mediator of the new testament that by means of death, for the redemption of the transgressions that were under the first testament, they which are called might receive the promise of eternal inheritance.” (Heb 9:15 AV)

Not until the sacrifice of Christ and his church is complete, at the end of this age, will the blood of the New Covenant be ready to apply, to seal the New Covenant, to make it operative.

It cannot become operative until the cup of the Lord's sufferings, which was left behind, has been drained in death by the last members of his body.
 

Windmillcharge

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Not until the sacrifice of Christ and his church is complete

Are you saying that Jesus's sacrifice is incomplete?

or is this some weird believe that the church will be completed at Jesus's 2nd coming, that other weird things will happen top fulfill some obscure verse can be completed?
 

Harvest 1874

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Are you saying that Jesus's sacrifice is incomplete?

or is this some weird believe that the church will be completed at Jesus's 2nd coming, that other weird things will happen top fulfill some obscure verse can be completed?

No that is not what we’re saying, what we’re saying is that THE Christ is a composite body consisting of many members, but only one head, Christ Jesus our Lord. The Church constitutes the body of Christ and is privileged to share in the sacrifice of Christ, to fill up that which remains of the afflictions of Christ.

When they were joined to the body of Christ their sacrifice (their blood, their life) was counted in as part of his.

Their sacrifice in no way contributes to the all sufficiently of Christ sacrifice (the ransom sacrifice), but nevertheless having been baptized into his death they are made participators in his sacrifice and become part of the “sin-offering” as typified in the Tabernacle types of the Great Day of Atonement, the “bullock” representing our Lord’s share in the sin-offering and the “Lord’s goat” representing the Church’s share.

I would suggest for further clarity on this matter that you take a look at our blog post entitled “The Great Day of Atonement”.
 

CoreIssue

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I got into the same issue.

Most refuse to use understand we are under the covenant of blood given by Christ at the Last Supper. Not the new covenant to the house of Israel and Judah, which is future.

They keep trying to merge them into one, which is a form of replacement theology.

Covenants
 

Enoch111

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The church, the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new testament.
Another false teaching that should not be promoted.

So have you torn out the New Testament from your Bible or not?

And how come you are quoting from the New Testament when it has not been given to you? DO YOU SEE YOUR RANK HYPOCRISY?
 

CoreIssue

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No matter how well it is explained, like the KJVO, they are indoctrinated and refused to see the reality.

I posted proof they have to be two separate doctrines. It was ignored.

Covenants
 

Enoch111

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believe our friend Doug when referring to the New Testament was referring to the New Covenant, not the written testimony or testament, but the covenant or contract which the LORD will make with the nation of Israel in the future, although it is true that the New Covenant has been spoken of as the New Testament as well.
That New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died. He anticipated this by instituting the Lord's Supper, calling the cup the New Covenant (Testament) in His blood. Even Messianic Jews recognize the written New Testament as Brit Hadashah or Brit Chadasha. And they do not agree that it is a "renewed covenant" either.

Fifty days later the promised Holy Spirit (under the New Covenant embedded in the Old Testament) was poured out upon all flesh on the day of Pentecost. Thousands of Jews were saved under the New Covenant at that time, and shortly thereafter. And soon after that the Gentiles were brought into the Church under the New Covenant.

So our friend Doug is simply trying to stir the pot and promote false doctrines. All he needed to say is that Israel as a whole has not been redeemed and restored under the New Covenant, and that will happen only after the Second Coming of Christ. Indeed the kingdom of Israel will be re-established with David as prince and Christ as King.
 
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CoreIssue

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That New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died. He anticipated this by instituting the Lord's Supper, calling the cup the New Covenant (Testament) in His blood. Even Messianic Jews recognize the written New Testament as Brit Hadashah or Brit Chadasha. And they do not agree that it is a "renewed covenant" either.

Fifty days later the promised Holy Spirit (under the New Covenant embedded in the Old Testament) was poured out upon all flesh on the day of Pentecost. Thousands of Jews were saved under the New Covenant at that time, and shortly thereafter. And soon after that the Gentiles were brought into the Church under the New Covenant.

So our friend Doug is simply trying to stir the pot and promote false doctrines. All he needed to say is that Israel as a whole has not been redeemed and restored under the New Covenant, and that will happen only after the Second Coming of Christ. Indeed the kingdom of Israel will be re-established with David as prince and Christ as King.
Just like you claim Easter is in the Bible and the RT is not a Catholic Bible.
Covenants
 

Harvest 1874

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That New Covenant went into effect the day Christ died.

No, the New Covenant did not go into effect the day Christ died, the New Covenant is to be made with Israel and Israel alone and not until the completion of the Mediator of that covenant, the Church complete.

"Behold; the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah: not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day that 1 took them by the hand to bring them out of the land of Egypt; which my covenant they brake, although 1 was an husband unto them, saith the LORD: but this shall be the covenant that 1 will make with the house of Israel; after those days, saith the LORD, I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people." (Jer 31:31-33)

In spite of this very clear statement, many Christians believe that the new covenant is made between God and believers in Christ. They "spiritualize" the word Israel (and overlook the word Judah). This is definitely not the correct thought. The Apostle Paul clarifies God's relationship with natural Israel.

"Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles (definitely natural Israel, not spiritual); how much more their fullness? (their restoration to divine favor)." "This is my covenant toward them, WHEN I SHALL TAKE AWAY THEIR SINS." (Rom 11:12, 27)

When does the new covenant go into effect?

This scripture says when God takes away natural Israel's sins.

Has He already taken away their sins?

No! He will take away their sins when the new covenant arrangement is inaugurated with a better mediator than Moses, The Christ, head and body.

Fifty days later the promised Holy Spirit (under the New Covenant embedded in the Old Testament) was poured out upon all flesh on the day of Pentecost.

Here once again you have quoted a prophecy which has not yet gone into effect, viz. Joel's prophecy (Joel 2:28-32). Joel's prophecy was intentionally written in reverse order in order to conceal the truth from the worldly wise and the worldly church.

And such is God's custom: He gave the natural seed of Abraham and its promises first and the spiritual and chief seed last; yet in the full completion of his plan, the spiritual seed must be glorified before the natural can have its promises fulfilled (Heb 11:40).

Verse 29 takes place first, the pouring out of the Lord's spirit on his menservants and maidservants i.e. the saints now during the Gospel age while Verse 28 concerning the poring out of the Spirit on all flesh (all mankind) takes place in the next age.

Throughout this Gospel age the Lord has poured out his Spirit upon his servants and handmaidens ONLY; and blessed has been the experience of all those who received it--all who were immersed into the body of Christ, and made partakers of his anointing as spiritual sons; and it was to this feature that the Apostle Peter (Acts 2:16-21) referred in his discourse at Pentecost. He quoted both parts of the prophecy, but, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit, he did not expound or illuminate the first part; because the time for it to be understood had not yet come.

Hence, instead of explaining the difference between the Holy Spirit upon the servants and the handmaidens during this Gospel age ("IN those days"), and the holy Spirit upon all flesh "afterward," in the next age, he merely says, referring to the holy Spirit poured upon himself and the other believers at Pentecost, "This, this outpouring is that which was spoken by the Prophet Joel"--a part of that, the beginning of that which was spoken. It will not all be complete until the pouring out of the Spirit upon all flesh, which has not yet come. Moreover, the prophet mentions other things, which are not yet fulfilled.

See more on this under the blog post entitled, "The Spirit Poured upon All Flesh"
 

Enoch111

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No, the New Covenant did not go into effect the day Christ died, the New Covenant is to be made with Israel and Israel alone and not until the completion of the Mediator of that covenant, the Church complete.
That's TOTAL NONSENSE and contradicts Scripture (which is not a problem for you).

Let everyone take note that Paul -- a minister of the New Covenant (Testament) -- compares the Old Covenant (and its fading glory) with the New Covenant (which is already effective during the Church Age, and is EXCEEDINGLY MORE GLORIOUS):

2 CORINTHIANS 3
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament [Covenant]; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.
 

Harvest 1874

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That's TOTAL NONSENSE and contradicts Scripture (which is not a problem for you).

Let everyone take note that Paul -- a minister of the New Covenant (Testament) -- compares the Old Covenant (and its fading glory) with the New Covenant (which is already effective during the Church Age, and is EXCEEDINGLY MORE GLORIOUS):

2 CORINTHIANS 3
1 Do we begin again to commend ourselves? or need we, as some others, epistles of commendation to you, or letters of commendation from you?
2 Ye are our epistle written in our hearts, known and read of all men:
3 Forasmuch as ye are manifestly declared to be the epistle of Christ ministered by us, written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the living God; not in tables of stone, but in fleshy tables of the heart.
4 And such trust have we through Christ to God-ward:
5 Not that we are sufficient of ourselves to think any thing as of ourselves; but our sufficiency is of God;
6 Who also hath made us able ministers of the New Testament [Covenant]; not of the letter, but of the Spirit: for the letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life.
7 But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away:
8 How shall not the ministration of the Spirit be rather glorious?
9 For if the ministration of condemnation be glory, much more doth the ministration of righteousness exceed in glory.
10 For even that which was made glorious had no glory in this respect, by reason of the glory that excelleth.
11 For if that which is done away was glorious, much more that which remaineth is glorious.
12 Seeing then that we have such hope, we use great plainness of speech:
13 And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:
14 But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.
15 But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.
16 Nevertheless when it shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.
17 Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
18 But we all, with open face beholding as in a glass the glory of the Lord, are changed into the same image from glory to glory, even as by the Spirit of the Lord.

Paul’s statement in 2 Cor 3:6 that we (the Church) are made “able or qualified servants of the New Covenant" does not in any way imply that it has already gone into effect; nor that it is applicable to the Church, this is merely an assumption on your part, and an erroneous one at that. Nor are we (the Church) under that covenant.

We are to be made ministers (servants) of the New Covenant, not to be place under it.

There is a very important reason why the New Covenant has not gone into effect as yet.

Our Lord Jesus, the Mediator of the New Covenant, has tarried all these many centuries in order that he might gather together the "very elect," who are to constitute his members, his Body, his joint-heirs, in the millennial glory and Mediatorial work. He is the Messenger or servant of the New Covenant and each one of the Church now being called and chosen becomes an under-servant and messenger of that Covenant.

As the Apostle Paul declares, "He hath made us qualified servants of the New Covenant." This work of qualifying the Church, the members of the Body of the Mediator, prepares them for a future service in helping Israel and the world under and through the terms of the New Covenant.

We are only considered ministers or servants of this New Covenant now, in the sense that we are presently engaged, as the Lord's mouth-pieces, in calling the members of the Body of Christ to this service, engaged as the Lord's representatives in edifying one another and building one another up in the "most holy faith," preparing one another as members of the Body of the Mediator, the Body of Christ, to be associated with him in the work of his Mediatorial Kingdom of a thousand years.

Our sharing with him as members of the Body of the great Prophet, Priest, King of the world and Mediator of the New Covenant, under which Israel and the world will be blessed, is made dependent upon our having share with him in his sufferings (drinking of the “cup”). This is why the blessings of the world did not begin eighteen centuries ago. This is why Israel was cast off and its New Covenant not entered into for all these centuries.

For those interested, who have not yet been thoroughly led into the same error as our friend here has been, we would suggest reading our blog post, "The Mediator and the New Covenant", which will shed some needful insight on this issue.
 
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Doug

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"the body of Christ, in this dispensation has not been given the new testament."

If that is true why do you quote from it?

Either we have the NT in which case your arguement is pointless or we don't have it. In which case what were you quoting from, that was not the OT?
Hello
I was listing the particulars of the new testament and contrasting them to what we have in Christ
 

Doug

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Another false teaching that should not be promoted.

So have you torn out the New Testament from your Bible or not?

And how come you are quoting from the New Testament when it has not been given to you? DO YOU SEE YOUR RANK HYPOCRISY?
Hello
I detailed the new testament to show how it contrasts with our riches in Christ
 

SkyWriting

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May 19, 2019
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No matter how well it is explained, like the KJVO, they are indoctrinated and refused to see the reality.

I posted proof they have to be two separate doctrines. It was ignored.

Covenants
"Proof" is only after it is accepted and identified in hindsight. Which only you have done.