1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

amadeus · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Jn 13-16 is the last supper which Christ enjoyed with “only” the apostles. The word “only” means there was “nobody” else there. So in Jn 14 and 16 when he said....
I will send “you” the comforter. Who was he talking to? This should be a very easy answer unless you want to be difficult.

Who is supposed to be reading the scriptures, any of them? Only Apostles? Are all of the ministers and priests and saints who do read the scriptures today apostles? Should not any who are not apostles ceased to read?

Who is that the Comforter is to comfort? Only the apostles or everyone who needs to be comforted?

The depth that I see in Ecclesiastes goes beyond the depth of the flesh, but it is the flesh to which it speaks on the surface. Solomon said, in effect, that no matter what we do, without God we can do nothing.

Jeremiah joins Solomon in saying that they had no comforter.

"Her filthiness is in her skirts; she remembereth not her last end; therefore she came down wonderfully: she [Jerusalem] had no comforter. O LORD, behold my affliction: for the enemy hath magnified himself." Lament 1:9

"So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter." Ecc 4:1

With no comforter, we also will be depressed and in despair when the troubles of this world come (and they will come), if we do not have the Comforter:

"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:18

And...

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

We are given more so that we can go deeper, if we will. We can be and are comforted while those in the OT were left comfortless. People today are shallow and uncomfortable because they either do not have the Comforter, or they ignore and starve the Comforter. This is something that need not be!

"If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." I Cor 14:30-31

charity · May 18, 2019

Nancy said:
Thank you for the reply Chris,
Yes, I know Jesus came for the house of Israel initially, and they of course, rejected Him. But what I was trying to say was that, just because only the 11 were present during His instructions, they were told to go into ALL nations Matthew 28:19
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost" In the hopes of provoking Israel to jealousy...salvation was offered to all. I'm not much of a scholar and, sorry if I'm not getting my thoughts across very well. So, what He told the Apostles should also apply to all Christians-not under the law?
Nancy

'Go ye therefore, and teach all nations,
baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you:
and, lo, I am with you alway,
even unto the end of the world. Amen.'
(Matthew 28:19-20)

Hello @Nancy,

At the time that this commission was given to the eleven disciples, the door of the Kingdom was not opened to the gentiles. That did not happen until approx. ten years later (Acts 10). By then the twelve had preached in Jerusalem, then in Judaea, then in Samaria according to the instruction of the Lord in Acts 1:8.

'But ye shall receive power,
after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you:
and ye shall be witnesses unto Me
.. both in Jerusalem,
.... and in all Judaea,
...... and in Samaria,
........ and unto the uttermost part of the earth.'

* See also Luke 24:46-49:-

And said unto them,
"Thus it is written,
and thus it behoved Christ to suffer,
and to rise from the dead the third day:
And that repentance and remission of sins
should be preached in His name among all nations,
beginning at Jerusalem.
And ye are witnesses of these things.
And, behold,
I send the promise of My Father upon you:
but tarry ye in the city of Jerusalem,
until ye be endued with power from on high".'

* The Jews dispersed among the nations were the object of this ministry of the twelve, whose purpose was to confirm the ministry of Christ, and to further His work.

Thank you, Nancy.
In Christ Jesus
Chris

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

stunnedbygrace said:
This might be the oddest thread I've seen started in a long time.

You have not added many other verses in for consideration. 1. If you don't have His Spirit, you aren't one of His. 2. Repent and be baptized and you will receive the Holy Spirit (that was said by an apostle to men who weren't in that upper room at all.) 3. Do you not know that your bodies are temples of the Holy Spirit? 4. Peter preached to men not apostles and not in the upper room: repent, be baptized and you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. 5. Paul asked a man not an apostle, have you received the Holy Spirit yet?

What makes it so odd? This passage is abused. A large majority use this passage to push false doctrine, teaching that if you don’t literally have the spirit you cannot understand the word. The question is not if one has the Spirit but HOW they have it. We do not literally have deity within us. Those that had that throughout the Bible could demonstrate the miraculous to prove they had it. Look at all the prophets in the Old Testament. Look at all the prophets and apostles in the NT. There is nobody and I mean NOBODY can demonstrate any working of the Spirit within them today. People just like to say...I feel it. People in the past didn’t just “feel” it. They could demonstrate. You can’t.
Acts 2:38 says you would receive “the gift” of the HS. He does not say they would receive the HS. When you look at acts 8 you will see they DID NOT receive the Spirit after repentance and baptism. Keep reading my post and I promise you’ll see many more things that are “odd” to you.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

101G said:
GINOLJC, to all.

first, yes, you don't know. second, what came out of Mary's womb was flesh and blood. the Lord Jesus is Spirit. (stop right there). the flesh is not the Spirit. the scripture clearly states, the Son of God was "BORN", Luke 1:35 "And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God". if you cannot believe the scripture, A. we cain't help you. B. why say you're a christian and don't believe the word of God?. it is written in black and white in your bible.

second the Son of Man which is Spirit is from above, and not from Mary. for God is without Mother, and without Father, because he is the "Father".

let me ask you this question and put this thing to rest, think before you answer. 1 Timothy 6:14 "That thou keep [this] commandment without spot, unrebukeable, until the appearing of our Lord Jesus Christ:
1 Timothy 6:15 "Which in his times he shall shew, [who][ is] the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;
1 Timothy 6:16 "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see: to whom [be] honour and power everlasting. Amen".

if the Lord Jesus is the "Only" one with IMMORTALITY where do that leave your so called first person and third person? well. because "IMMORTALITY" means, the ability to live forever; eternal life. as the scriptures states he's the only one with it, meaning he not born, so he have no beginning, no end. and Mary did not birth that. and two that means he's the only one in the Godhead. so think long and hard before you answer.

PICJAG.

PS you have the above scriptures, we suggest you study them closley.

Hey, you got me. Congratulations. I’m completely confused. So whatever it is you are preaching I truly don’t know. Your seminary education is way beyond me.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

bbyrd009 said:
iow you cannot Quote it, right, you have to enforce your pov upon it in order to make it say what you want it to say, bc the real message, hidden in "12" btw, would not suit you wadr. But you can pretend Scripture is written that way if you like, ok with me. Be certain, and speak with certainty too if you want, as if you know for sure. I appreciate the response, and have a nice day

Why didn’t you answer? The verse was directly speaking to people who had been with him since the beginning. Have you? You claim these passages are directed at you. You must also have miraculous memory. You won’t answer because of what you’ll have to admit.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

Nancy said:
I would say it was NOT just for His Apostles but for the whole world!

"Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19, 20)

So you have been with Christ since the beginning? This is who he is speaking to. Mt 28 is not under consideration. It’s jn 13-16. Mt 28 was spoken directly to the apostles but through understanding other passages we see that we too are supposed to spread the gospel. Now show me all the other passages that say we are to receive the Spirit and that he will guide us “directly” in to all truth.

stunnedbygrace · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
What makes it so odd? This passage is abused. A large majority use this passage to push false doctrine, teaching that if you don’t literally have the spirit you cannot understand the word. The question is not if one has the Spirit but HOW they have it. We do not literally have deity within us. Those that had that throughout the Bible could demonstrate the miraculous to prove they had it. Look at all the prophets in the Old Testament. Look at all the prophets and apostles in the NT. There is nobody and I mean NOBODY can demonstrate any working of the Spirit within them today. People just like to say...I feel it. People in the past didn’t just “feel” it. They could demonstrate. You can’t.
Acts 2:38 says you would receive “the gift” of the HS. He does not say they would receive the HS. When you look at acts 8 you will see they DID NOT receive the Spirit after repentance and baptism. Keep reading my post and I promise you’ll see many more things that are “odd” to you.

You didn't address any of the verses I gave.

And how do you not know if maybe we are the church in Revelation that doesn't have much strength remaining?

And further, how do you know if that strength might not be restored?

But mostly, you didn't address the verses I gave.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

amadeus said:
Who is supposed to be reading the scriptures, any of them? Only Apostles? Are all of the ministers and priests and saints who do read the scriptures today apostles? Should not any who are not apostles ceased to read?

Who is that the Comforter is to comfort? Only the apostles or everyone who needs to be comforted?

The depth that I see in Ecclesiastes goes beyond the depth of the flesh, but it is the flesh to which it speaks on the surface. Solomon said, in effect, that no matter what we do, without God we can do nothing.

Jeremiah joins Solomon in saying that they had no comforter.

"Her filthiness is in her skirts; she remembereth not her last end; therefore she came down wonderfully: she [Jerusalem] had no comforter. O LORD, behold my affliction: for the enemy hath magnified himself." Lament 1:9

"So I returned, and considered all the oppressions that are done under the sun: and behold the tears of such as were oppressed, and they had no comforter; and on the side of their oppressors there was power; but they had no comforter." Ecc 4:1

With no comforter, we also will be depressed and in despair when the troubles of this world come (and they will come), if we do not have the Comforter:

"I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you." John 14:18

And...

"But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you." John 14:26

We are given more so that we can go deeper, if we will. We can be and are comforted while those in the OT were left comfortless. People today are shallow and uncomfortable because they either do not have the Comforter, or they ignore and starve the Comforter. This is something that need not be!

"If any thing be revealed to another that sitteth by, let the first hold his peace.
For ye may all prophesy one by one, that all may learn, and all may be comforted." I Cor 14:30-31

We do have the comforter. When we read what they wrote we too will be guided into truth. He teaches us all things through his word he has left us.
The Spirit doesn’t bring ALL things to your remembrance. You have to look it up just like you did. Without the Bible you wouldn’t even know anything about the HS. We are comforted through the Bible through diligent study and meditation in the word. All of you on this board think you have the Spirit and you all can’t even get it straight. You all teach different things on just about every subject and you want me to believe deity is leading you directly?

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

stunnedbygrace said:
You didn't address any of the verses I gave.

And how do you not know if maybe we are the church in Revelation that doesn't have much strength remaining?

And further, how do you know if that strength might not be restored?

But mostly, you didn't address the verses I gave.

How do you get off saying I didn’t address ANY of the verses you gave. Technically you gave no verses. You paraphrased a couple. I directly dealt with acts 2:38. Did you not want to comment on that verse.

101G · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Hey, you got me. Congratulations. I’m completely confused. So whatever it is you are preaching I truly don’t know. Your seminary education is way beyond me.

first, no Congratulations, and second, no, no one out to get anyone. we're about edification, and not desolation. what we're preaching is just what the Lord Jesus preached and what he preached to his disciples, and apostles, this is nothing new. it's in your bible.

you should not be confused, we're speaking the scriptures. only you're hearing the truth for the first time. never assume anything, read the scriptures for yourself. they are not that hard to understand, it's us who need to renew our minds.

and as for anyone being right or wrong, that childish. "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". sometimes we all need to keep our mouths shut and learn at times. let the Holy Ghost speak in you when needed.

the Scriptures are nothing to play with, so all of us lets be serious.

PICJAG.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

101G said:
first, no Congratulations, and second, no, no one out to get anyone. we're about edification, and not desolation. what we're preaching is just what the Lord Jesus preached and what he preached to his disciples, and apostles, this is nothing new. it's in your bible.

you should not be confused, we're speaking the scriptures. only you're hearing the truth for the first time. never assume anything, read the scriptures for yourself. they are not that hard to understand, it's us who need to renew our minds.

and as for anyone being right or wrong, that childish. "When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things". sometimes we all need to keep our mouths shut and learn at times. let the Holy Ghost speak in you when needed.

the Scriptures are nothing to play with, so all of us lets be serious.

PICJAG.

Yes there is right or wrong.

stunnedbygrace · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
How do you get off saying I didn’t address ANY of the verses you gave. Technically you gave no verses. You paraphrased a couple. I directly dealt with acts 2:38. Did you not want to comment on that verse.

What's wrong with paraphrased verses? I'm sure you knew the verses I was speaking of, right?

Yes, you dealt with Acts, but you were telling how you interpret it. My point was that you had left some verses out of your interpretation - namely, the ones that don't fit with your interpretation. Scriptures balance one another when understood. For instance, never answer a fool in his folly, always answer a fool in his folly. Or...anything you ask in my name you will receive/you ask and do not receive because you ask with the wrong motives.

Just consider the last one there. I'm sure you've heard the ridiculous tv preachers who go running with it and say you don't have a Mercedes and a 6,000 sq ft house because you didn't ask believing you would receive? They leave out the scripture that balances it.

So...we need the balance or we get real sideways. So you should look at the seemingly opposing verses.

101G · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Yes there is right or wrong.

who's counting? Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way".

if it come to it we're all wrong, Romans 3:10 "As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one:
Romans 3:11 "There is none that understandeth, there is none that seeketh after God.
Romans 3:12 "They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.
Romans 3:13 "Their throat [is] an open sepulchre; with their tongues they have used deceit; the poison of asps [is] under their lips:Romans 3:14 "Whose mouth [is] full of cursing and bitterness:
Romans 3:15 "Their feet [are] swift to shed blood:
Romans 3:16 "Destruction and misery [are] in their ways:
Romans 3:17 "And the way of peace have they not known:
Romans 3:18 "There is no fear of God before their eyes.

so again we ask whp's counting.

PICJAG.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

stunnedbygrace said:
What's wrong with paraphrased verses? I'm sure you knew the verses I was speaking of, right?

Yes, you dealt with Acts, but you were telling how you interpret it. My point was that you had left some verses out of your interpretation - namely, the ones that don't fit with your interpretation. Scriptures balance one another when understood. For instance, never answer a fool in his folly, always answer a fool in his folly. Or...anything you ask in my name you will receive/you ask and do not receive because you ask with the wrong motives.

Just consider the last one there. I'm sure you've heard the ridiculous tv preachers who go running with it and say you don't have a Mercedes and a 6,000 sq ft house because you didn't ask believing you would receive? They leave out the scripture that balances it.

So...we need the balance or we get real sideways. So you should look at the seemingly opposing verses.

Ok let’s get balance. You say we receive the Spirit as promised in acts 2:38.
In acts 8 we see this..
Acts 8:15-16 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)
We see here that what Peter promised was not the HS as the gift after baptism. The reason I know that because just as you stated, we have now received balance and understanding from the scripture. These individuals were baptized but did not receive the Spirit. Do you believe in salvation by faith alone? if not then what do you believe one must do in order to be saved?

101G · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Ok let’s get balance. You say we receive the Spirit as promised in acts 2:38.
In acts 8 we see this..
Acts 8:15-16 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost: (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

now, what's the difference here and acts 8:9-16? well

PICJAG

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

101G said:
Acts 10:44 "While Peter yet spake these words, the Holy Ghost fell on all them which heard the word.
Acts 10:45 "And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Acts 10:46 "For they heard them speak with tongues, and magnify God. Then answered Peter,
Acts 10:47 "Can any man forbid water, that these should not be baptized, which have received the Holy Ghost as well as we?

now, what's the difference here and acts 8:9-16? well

PICJAG

This has never happened to you.
This was a baptism in the HS for effect just like the apostles on acts 2. When the Jews saw the HS fall on them they said,...who can forbid water. They realized by this miraculous event that God accepts the gentiles as well so they could continue and baptize them into Christ.

101G · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
This has never happened to you.
This was a baptism in the HS for effect just like the apostles on acts 2. When the Jews saw the HS fall on them they said,...who can forbid water. They realized by this miraculous event that God accepts the gentiles as well so they could continue and baptize them into Christ.

no, this was a baptism "with" the Holy Spirit. they was already "in" the Spirit, meaning "BORN" of the Spirit, now empowered.

PICJAG.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

101G said:
no, this was a baptism "with" the Holy Spirit. they was already "in" the Spirit, meaning "BORN" of the Spirit, now empowered.

PICJAG.

Once again. Don’t even know what that means. “They was already in the spirit”? What does that even mean? Peter says we are born by the word. They hadn’t heard the word preached so how could they be “born” of the spirit?

101G · May 18, 2019

CNKW3 said:
Once again. Don’t even know what that means. “They was already in the spirit”? What does that even mean? Peter says we are born by the word. They hadn’t heard the word preached so how could they be “born” of the spirit?

are you so sure? Acts 10:1 "There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [band],
Acts 10:2 "[A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, (STOP, and all his house), which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Acts 10:3 "He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God".

see that word "memorial", it's the Greek word,
G3422 μνημόσυνον mnemosunon (mnee-mo-sï '-non) n.
a reminder (memorandum), i.e. record.
[from G3421]
KJV: memorial

now let's go to the OT and see it clearly. Malachi 3:16 "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard [it], and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Malachi 3:17 "And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. BINGO, now what do the word "remembrance" here means? it's the Hebrew,
H2146 זִכרוֹן zikrown (zik-rone') n-m.
a memento (or memorable thing, day or writing).
[from H2142]
KJV: memorial, record.
Root(s): H2142

what did the angel say in Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God".

see, his name and his household was already written in the book of life. now he's about to "empower" his sons and daughters ... (the household).

we suggest you re-read those verses and maybe make a cross reference of those scriptures.

PICJAG.

CNKW3 · May 18, 2019

101G said:
are you so sure? Acts 10:1 "There was a certain man in Caesarea called Cornelius, a centurion of the band called the Italian [band],
Acts 10:2 "[A] devout [man], and one that feared God with all his house, (STOP, and all his house), which gave much alms to the people, and prayed to God alway.
Acts 10:3 "He saw in a vision evidently about the ninth hour of the day an angel of God coming in to him, and saying unto him, Cornelius.
Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God".

see that word "memorial", it's the Greek word,
G3422 μνημόσυνον mnemosunon (mnee-mo-sï '-non) n.
a reminder (memorandum), i.e. record.
[from G3421]
KJV: memorial

now let's go to the OT and see it clearly. Malachi 3:16 "Then they that feared the LORD spake often one to another: and the LORD hearkened, and heard [it], and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared the LORD, and that thought upon his name.
Malachi 3:17 "And they shall be mine, saith the LORD of hosts, in that day when I make up my jewels; and I will spare them, as a man spareth his own son that serveth him. BINGO, now what do the word "remembrance" here means? it's the Hebrew,
H2146 זִכרוֹן zikrown (zik-rone') n-m.
a memento (or memorable thing, day or writing).
[from H2142]
KJV: memorial, record.
Root(s): H2142

what did the angel say in Acts 10:4 "And when he looked on him, he was afraid, and said, What is it, Lord? And he said unto him, Thy prayers and thine alms are come up for a memorial before God".

see, his name and his household was already written in the book of life. now he's about to "empower" his sons and daughters ... (the household).

we suggest you re-read those verses and maybe make a cross reference of those scriptures.

PICJAG.

The angel told Cornelius to call for Peter and that he would give him WORDS BY WHICH HE WOULD BE SAVED. So was he saved? The angel said he still needed to be saved. What was going to do it? The HS? No, it was going to be words. Preaching. Which is in perfect harmony with Paul in Rom 10:13-15
Acts 10:35. Says that he that fears God and works righteousness is accepted by God. Cornelius still needed to work righteousness.

1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

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