Maturity in Christ

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Enoch111

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I'm not understanding you. You are saying that trust the size of a mustard seed means no trust at all...? So then Jesus was saying...if you have trust even the size of a mustard seed, it is unbelief, and you can move mountains with this unbelief...?
Quite the opposite. What Jesus was saying is that you do not need a mountain of faith to move a mountain. IOW it is not one's "volume" of faith that brings about miracles. It is simply the One you trust. Great faith simply means absolute trust.

On the other hand, the disciples -- having seen Christ perform miracle after miracle, and having Him aboard their ship -- were displaying unbelief when they became fearful of perishing. Fear means lack of faith.
 

Enoch111

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Every man and woman could say “Lord, save us: we perish.” Without the resurrection of the Son; passing from death into Life given by picking up the cross and following Him...how could there be any saving faith?
Saving faith is generated through the power of the Gospel and the convincing and convicting power of the Holy Spirit.
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach... So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:8,17) Here "the Word of God" is the Gospel (as in 1 Pet 1:23-25).

So having heard the Gospel, unsaved persons must believe with all their heart that (a) Jesus is the Son of God -- God manifest in the flesh, and (b) that the Lord Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose again for their justification. This also means to receive Him as both Lord and Savior.

ROMANS 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 

CoreIssue

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Saving faith is generated through the power of the Gospel and the convincing and convicting power of the Holy Spirit.
But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach... So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God. (Rom 10:8,17) Here "the Word of God" is the Gospel (as in 1 Pet 1:23-25).

So having heard the Gospel, unsaved persons must believe with all their heart that (a) Jesus is the Son of God -- God manifest in the flesh, and (b) that the Lord Jesus Christ died for their sins and rose again for their justification. This also means to receive Him as both Lord and Savior.

ROMANS 10
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
12 For there is no difference between the Jew and the Greek: for the same Lord over all is rich unto all that call upon him.
13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
There are people who are saved never heard the gospel.

About people who NEVER hear the gospel
 

stunnedbygrace

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Quite the opposite. What Jesus was saying is that you do not need a mountain of faith to move a mountain. IOW it is not one's "volume" of faith that brings about miracles. It is simply the One you trust. Great faith simply means absolute trust.

On the other hand, the disciples -- having seen Christ perform miracle after miracle, and having Him aboard their ship -- were displaying unbelief when they became fearful of perishing. Fear means lack of faith.

I agree faith means trust and great faith means absolute trust. I don't believe though that everyone who claims to have great faith actually does have great faith. I think most of us are like the man who said, Lord, I DO believe, please help my unbelief!
 

stunnedbygrace

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So, we see men quite often, for example, believing some things Jesus said, like that they will live forever, while simultaneously they are not believing what He said about temporal provision. They prove it by their worry.
 

Enoch111

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So, we see men quite often, for example, believing some things Jesus said, like that they will live forever, while simultaneously they are not believing what He said about temporal provision. They prove it by their worry.
Yes and men will live forever because they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Resurrection and the Life.

At the same time, a Christian's faith may not always be steady and high. But that makes no difference. God gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe on His Son.
 

Enoch111

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There are people who are saved never heard the gospel.
You will not find that in Scripture.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16)
 

stunnedbygrace

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Yes and men will live forever because they have believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who is the Resurrection and the Life.

At the same time, a Christian's faith may not always be steady and high. But that makes no difference. God gives the gift of eternal life to those who believe on His Son.

So one must only believe they will live forever? There is no requirement to believe anything else our Lord said? You only have to believe one of the things He said?

This has always greatly bothered me. It seems to me like its a deal to cheat death that won't stand.
 

Enoch111

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So one must only believe they will live forever?
No, one must only BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. So please note:

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn 11:25,26)
 

stunnedbygrace

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No, one must only BELIEVE ON THE LORD JESUS CHRIST. So please note:

Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (Jn 11:25,26)

But is it really believing on Him if I only believe I will live forever and don't ever begin to believe Him and not worry about temporal provision?

Who did God later become displeased with and swear they would never enter His rest? Wasn't it those who He had PREVIOUSLY SAVED?

They trusted Him so much that they stepped out under a towering wall of water. Nevertheless, their subsequent unbelief displeased Him so He swore they would never enter His rest.
 
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stunnedbygrace

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I think this is why we were cautioned to see that our hearts don't become evil and unbelieving as theirs did.
 

Enoch111

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But is it really believing on Him if I only believe I will live forever and don't ever begin to believe Him and not worry about temporal provision?
Listen. All the apostles believed on the Lord Jesus Christ (barring Judas). But they all abandoned Him after He was taken prisoner, and they all failed to believed that He would rise again the third day. Did that lead to their condemnation?????
 

stunnedbygrace

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Listen. All the apostles believed on the Lord Jesus Christ (barring Judas). But they all abandoned Him after He was taken prisoner, and they all failed to believed that He would rise again the third day. Did that lead to their condemnation?????

No. But they hadn't received the Holy Spirit yet.
 

Episkopos

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There are people who are saved never heard the gospel.

About people who NEVER hear the gospel


That..will be saved. God has mercy on whom He wills. He doesn't even consult us about it. :rolleyes: He is more merciful than we are.

We will only be judged according to what we have been given. If more was given then more will be required.

Ananias the beggar is a good example of this.
 
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CoreIssue

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You will not find that in Scripture.

And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature. He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. (Mk 16:15,16)
It's in the book of Romans.

And of course you didn't pay any attention to the videos.

According to you every body in the early church time that did not have access to the apostles went to hell. Utter nonsense.
 

CoreIssue

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That..will be saved. God has mercy on whom He wills. He doesn't even consult us about it. :rolleyes: He is more merciful than we are.

We will only be judged according to what we have been given. If more was given then more will be required.

Ananias the beggar is a good example of this.
There is no salvation after death.

Again you express Gnostic thinking.