1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

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CNKW3

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so then why cant you be?
Apostles were people sent out that held a special position and had special abilities with the gifts of the Spirit. They had a special job in that they were overseers to the beginning of the church and produced the NT which we have now. They could impart gifts through the laying on of hands. They literally were ambassadors for Christ. 2 Cor 5:20 we are not.
An ambassador is a specially appointed representative. That’s what apostles were.
 

CNKW3

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hmm. no, bc That is not Word, and you cannot make It be unless you want to be deceived, which idc ok but it helps to make the point.

Anyway, imo it is not the literally pointing to passages in Writings that is subjective imo, it is the interps we say onto them?
oh, if I inferred or claimed direct operation from the Spirit in some manner pls point it out, and i'll confess and rebound ok
maybe I inferred something you did not imply.
 

bbyrd009

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Did try the f8 tapping...nothing. Also had a guy look at it. Said he would fix it if I would buy some disc. I took it back home :) I will try the F10 thing...tanx :D
when you first start up, you get a blue screen with directions to start in safe mode, something like "press f10 to start in safe mode." may only be up for a couple seconds, so be ready
 

amadeus

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Apostles were people sent out that held a special position and had special abilities with the gifts of the Spirit. They had a special job in that they were overseers to the beginning of the church and produced the NT which we have now. They could impart gifts through the laying on of hands. They literally were ambassadors for Christ. 2 Cor 5:20 we are not.
An ambassador is a specially appointed representative. That’s what apostles were.

So then what is it that we are? What is my job [in the Lord or as part of the Body of Christ]? What is yours? What is that of our friend @bbyrd009 ?

"Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called." I Cor 7:20

Do we, each one of us, know what calling of God is ours? Do we not have one?

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," II Tim 1:9

What does God want from us? If we do not know, are we asking or searching? Will God hide this from us?

You say that we are NOT apostles, but why is it you are so sure of this...perhaps because you are sure that you are not an apostle?

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way." I Cor 12:29-31


 
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bbyrd009

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CNKW3

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You mentioned in an earlier post God is an all-consuming Fire. We are to be tried by Fire...every thing of the dark brought out into the Light. what makes it through fire? The flesh perishes ...what doesn’t perish? It is a great gift God has given in that a man’s life which was once pointless and vain and perished with no profit... Born of the Spirit, that same man has been given something that doesn’t perish which is Life. If Life is not in you ...then you will perish and be without hope.
God is a consuming fire. 1 Cor 3 (another abused part of scripture) tells us what will withstand the fire. Gold, silver, and precious stones. Hay, wood, and stubble will perish. When you read the context of 1 Cor 3 you will find he is talking about people or converts to Christ. Some are gold and will persevere and others are stubble and will be consumed by the fire. So, even though someone may be “born again”, if they do not remain faithful they will turn into wood, hay, or stubble and be consumed in the end.

Numbers 14:24 But my servant Caleb, because he had another spirit with him, and hath followed me fully, him will I bring into the land whereinto he went; and his seed shall possess it.

“...because he had another spirit with him” ... “...and his seed will possess it.”
How did he know Caleb had another Spirit? Because he followed God fully. The Spirit just didn’t pick out Caleb and take over to make him act a certain way. Caleb still had choice. Look at Abraham. Rom 4 and Gen 15:6 are also abused parts of scripture. Why was Abraham the man he was? People will say because he “believed God” without doing anything but that is not correct.
Genesis 26:4-5 And I will make thy seed to multiply as the stars of heaven, and will give unto thy seed all these countries; and in thy seed shall all the nations of the earth be blessed; Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws.
Abraham was a faithful man. Would you say he had the Spirit? I would but again the Spirit didn’t take over and make him be this kind of man.

There is the spirit of the anti-christ already at work in the world...another Jesus which we are told to not receive.
1 Corinthians 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

But you say No...we have not received the spirit which is of God. Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
How does one receive the Spirit today? Through the word. There is no other way. When you read Corinthians and the other letters as well, you are reading a letter written to people who literally had been given gifts of the spirit and could demonstrate them. We don’t have that today. You cannot prove operation of the Spirit. The way we know that we have the Spirit of God and not the Spirit of the world is by viewing someone’s teaching and practice. If it doesn’t line up with the word of God it is from the world. Think of gay marriage. Goes against the Spirit of God so we know it comes from the Spirit of the world. Do you think there is literally a spirit of the world today? Is it the devil? Does he literally take over and make people act a certain way? No, it is his influence that controls this world. It is everywhere.

When you preach flesh as intelligent enough to comprehend and apply the word apart from the inner workings and teaching and correction of the Holy Spirit within the new born child of God ...it is no different as you said of Joyce Meyer. You said she has no Holy Spirit but is working of the flesh...yet you claim the same thing in it is not the Holy Spirit but you who discerns and applies and reasons apart from any gift given of God.
Sorry, not quite following this point. Yes, Joyce Meyer being a preacher is against the Spirit so therefore what she is doing is contrary to the Spirit of God therefore it comes through the influence of the world. All the people through the years who have been telling her....it’s ok, you should go preach and teach. Your good, you need to be a “pastor”. The Spirit wasn’t telling her that.

Addressing also your comment on pure religion is to visit the widows. You said widows is “self-explanatory”. Romans 7:3-4 So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man. [4] Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

“...that we should bring forth fruit unto God.” Fruit of the Spirit by Life within.

Pure religion of visiting the true widow may be self-explanatory to flesh...but God gives a different definition.
Romans 7:2 For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.
What does this have to do with James 1. Rom 7 mentions nothing of a widow. It merely states a woman is bound to her husband as long as he lives. If he dies she can remarry. You don’t want me to get started on divorce and remarriage.

John 12:24-25
[24] Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. [25] He that loveth his life shall lose it; and he that hateth his life in this world shall keep it unto life eternal.

“...it abideth alone.” Children born from above do not abide alone.
a child of God is supposed to die. Supposed to die to sin. It’s not physical death but a death to sin. Rom 6:6-18
 

CNKW3

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We aren't to expect a Messiah to come and fulfill Psalms 22 anymore either, yet it's still written for our learning, and even to show orthodox unbelieving Jews that God gave David to prophesy of Christ's crucifixion about a thousand years before it actually happened.

So it's like Apostle Paul said to Timothy, all Scripture is written for the Church...

2 Tim 3:16-17
16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.
KJV
maybe you are starting to understand.
 

CNKW3

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There's still huge stones... standing at today's temple mount area. They call them the Wailing Wall.

And right there in black and white is the timing of events Jesus was talking about, with, "what shall be the sign of Thy coming, and of the end of the world?"

But you said that wasn't about the event of Christ's 2nd coming, showing you're just pushing a doctrine of men.
You began all of this with mark 13 and now have completely left mark 13. For some reason you don’t like Mk 13 anymore. We have not really looked at Mt 24. But yes a part of what they asked was about his second coming. So, let’s look at the transition from question 1 to 2.
Matthew 24:34-37 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled. Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.
He is concluding his answer to the first question and he was right. 40 years later AD 70 happened and there were still people alive from that generation.

But of that day and hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels of heaven, but my Father only. But as the days of Noah were, so shall also the coming of the Son of man be.
Now he has shifted to the second question. In the first he told them to look for signs so they could see it coming and here he says nobody will know. There will be no signs for the second coming of Christ. You can look to the Middle East all you want but it ain’t there.
 

VictoryinJesus

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How does one receive the Spirit today? Through the word.

So you do agree one can receive the Holy Spirit today? Then I misunderstood. Through His word ...agree. John 8:31-32
[31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
 

CNKW3

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So then what is it that we are? What is my job [in the Lord or as part of the Body of Christ]? What is yours? What is that of our friend @bbyrd009 ?

"Let every man abide in the same calling wherein he was called." I Cor 7:20

Do we, each one of us, know what calling of God is ours? Do we not have one?

"Who hath saved us, and called us with an holy calling, not according to our works, but according to his own purpose and grace, which was given us in Christ Jesus before the world began," II Tim 1:9

What does God want from us? If we do not know, are we asking or searching? Will God hide this from us?

You say that we are NOT apostles, but why is it you are so sure of this...perhaps because you are sure that you are not an apostle?

"Are all apostles? are all prophets? are all teachers? are all workers of miracles?
Have all the gifts of healing? do all speak with tongues? do all interpret?
But covet earnestly the best gifts: and yet show I unto you a more excellent way." I Cor 12:29-31

Yes I’m sure we are not apostles. I’m sure you aren’t. You have no miraculous abilities whatsoever. You can lay hands on nobody and impart gifts. You do not have miraculous memory. You are not directly guided into all truth with some new revelation.
When you read scripture and study you will find many different ways one is to work in the kingdom. It could be something as simple as the sermon on the mount. A Christian should be the salt of the earth which means you should have an impact everywhere. One should also be a light to the world.
Paul told Timothy
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
We are to always be teaching and helping others when opportunity arises. The NT is replete with ways in which the child of a God is to conduct his life. Gods will for the child of God is to worship him. And not just in any way but a specific way. In spirit and in truth. Jn 4:24. Do you worship in truth? I wonder. Most people don’t. Maybe you’re mega rich and have the means to help older or less fortunate people within the church. If you have to ask this kind of question then I know you don’t spend much time in the word. Because, again it is FULL of information to help you be all that you can be.
 

CNKW3

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2 Corinthians 5:20 Lexicon: Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, as though God were making an appeal through us; we beg you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God.

which supports your pov if you read from v 19, but mine if you read down to v 21, so that neither one of us can Quote any AT I guess? lol
When you read 2 cor 5 you see this kind of language.
Vs 12 For WE commend not ourselves again unto YOU. but give YOU occasion to glory on OUR behalf.
Vs 13 and following you will see some of the same. Like in vs 20. He is contrasting WE with YOU. So it is the WE who are ambassadors. Not the you or the church. Now, are WE who are the church supposed to spread the Word? Yes. But this doesn’t mean we are official representatives, selected by God.
 

CNKW3

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So you do agree one can receive the Holy Spirit today? Then I misunderstood. Through His word ...agree. John 8:31-32
[31] Then said Jesus to those Jews which believed on him, If ye continue in my word, then are ye my disciples indeed; [32] And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
Absolutely. Good post.
 

bbyrd009

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When you read 2 cor 5 you see this kind of language.
Vs 12 For WE commend not ourselves again unto YOU. but give YOU occasion to glory on OUR behalf.
Vs 13 and following you will see some of the same. Like in vs 20. He is contrasting WE with YOU. So it is the WE who are ambassadors. Not the you or the church. Now, are WE who are the church supposed to spread the Word? Yes. But this doesn’t mean we are official representatives, selected by God.
ok then, go with that; say like you know
 

amadeus

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Yes I’m sure we are not apostles. I’m sure you aren’t. You have no miraculous abilities whatsoever. You can lay hands on nobody and impart gifts. You do not have miraculous memory. You are not directly guided into all truth with some new revelation.
Presumption or unction? Most people are not apostles and most of them don't have the miraculous abilities to perform what men often call miracles. Just throwing the dice of chance you are more likely to be right than to be wrong... unless God is calling the shots. What is the Body of Christ? What are it members and how do they relate to one another and to the Head?

When someone is guided into some new revelation is it not likely that he will treated more by the leadership or even the masses of today as Jesus was about 2000 years ago? And Jesus, the Truth, really spoke the truth.
Presumption or unction?


"And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation." Mark 8:12

Signs... or the lack thereof! That which works best to prove your point. This is NOT what Jesus did!

For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?" Matt 9:5

Give God alone the glory!

When you read scripture and study you will find many different ways one is to work in the kingdom. It could be something as simple as the sermon on the mount. A Christian should be the salt of the earth which means you should have an impact everywhere. One should also be a light to the world.
Have you seen my world? Have you seen the world that my more immediate neighbors see when they see me... ?

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12

Paul told Timothy
2 Timothy 2:2 And the things that thou hast heard of me among many witnesses, the same commit thou to faithful men, who shall be able to teach others also.
We are to always be teaching and helping others when opportunity arises. The NT is replete with ways in which the child of a God is to conduct his life. Gods will for the child of God is to worship him. And not just in any way but a specific way. In spirit and in truth. Jn 4:24. Do you worship in truth? I wonder. Most people don’t. Maybe you’re mega rich and have the means to help older or less fortunate people within the church. If you have to ask this kind of question then I know you don’t spend much time in the word. Because, again it is FULL of information to help you be all that you can be.

"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." John 5:30

"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:4-5


But then again...

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matt 5:14-16
 

CNKW3

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ok then, go with that; say like you know
We can also look at chapter 1. He begins the first verse mentioning him and Timothy. Then in a couple of verses later we find this language...
2 Corinthians 1:6-7 And whether we be afflicted, it is for your consolation and salvation, which is effectual in the enduring of the same sufferings which we also suffer: or whether we be comforted, it is for your consolation and salvation. And our hope of you is stedfast, knowing, that as ye are partakers of the sufferings, so shall ye be also of the consolation.

He starts off the letter contrasting the WE with YOU and YOUR. The we could be just Paul and Timothy and may include Silvanus in vs 19, but I tend to believe he has all the apostles in mind.
 

charity

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Trying to keep it simple.
The command to preach to all the world was given right before the crucifixion.
Hello @CoreIssue,
Matthew 28-29, records what the Lord Jesus said following His resurrection.
CoreIssue:-
They were aware that they were supposed to preach to Jew and Gentile alike.
* Were they? How do you account for the reaction of the believing Jews to Peter in Acts 11:1-3.
CoreIssue:-
Contrary to what some say the transition from mosaic law to the church was instant at the resurrection.
* Was it? How do you account for the words of James in Acts 21:20? Also the actions of Paul, who kept the sabbath, observed the feasts and performed a Nazarite vow.
CoreIssue:-
The apostles understood it. They sent out 60
* Did they? Are you referring to the Lord sending out a further seventy in Luke 10?
CoreIssue:- Prophecy said the gospel would be preach to the whole world before the rapture.
* Did it? Before the rapture? The Lord said that, 'The Gospel of the Kingdom' would be preached in all the world for a witness, before the end comes (the end of that dispensation): but that will be the role of restored Israel now as Priests unto God (Exodus 19:5-6), because that promise was dependent on the nation of Israel's repentance, but they refused, and went out into blindness and unbelief (temporarily), so the end (and Christ's return) as promised through Peter in Acts 3:19-20, did not take place.
CoreIssue:-
So it seems pretty clear from the resurrection on the mission was to preach to everyone.
* Was it? That is not what the record reveals. The twelve had to go to the Jew first, for their repentance was vital for the purpose of God to be accomplished at that time, and for the return of Christ: this is why their message, was,' Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, when the times of refreshing shall come from the presence of the Lord; And He shall send Jesus Christ, which before was preached unto you:' (Acts 3:19-20)
CoreIssue:-
Yes, Christ came for the Jews only. But He never told the apostles Jews only.
* Didn't He? What about Matthew 10:5
CoreIssue:-
He did not turn them loose on the world until just before the crucifixion.
* The door of the kingdom was not opened to the Gentiles until approximately forty years after the Lord's ascension, in Acts 10.
CoreIssue:-
So I see this very clear mission of every Christian is to spread the gospel in what ever way is appropriate to their gift of the Holy Spirit and his guide. A teacher in the classroom is spreading the gospel. A missionary spreads the gospel. A coworker at work spreads the gospel.
* Of course the gospel message is on the lips of most believers, but not 'the gospel of the Kingdom', that they administered: this commission is very obviously directed to the eleven particularly.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
 
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CNKW3

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Presumption or unction? Most people are not apostles and most of them don't have the miraculous abilities to perform what men often call miracles.
Most people? How about none.


Just throwing the dice of chance you are more likely to be right than to be wrong... unless God is calling the shots. What is the Body of Christ? What are it members and how do they relate to one another and to the Head?
The body of Christ? Are those who have believed, repented and been baptized into Christ or into the body they are one in the same.


When someone is guided into some new revelation is it not likely that he will treated more by the leadership or even the masses of today as Jesus was about 2000 years ago? And Jesus, the Truth, really spoke the truth.
Presumption or unction?
Nobody is guided into any new revelation today. Jude says that we should contend for THE FAITH that has ONCE been delivered unto the saints. There are no more deliveries of truth.


"And he sighed deeply in his spirit, and saith, Why doth this generation seek after a sign? verily I say unto you, There shall no sign be given unto this generation." Mark 8:12
Signs... or the lack thereof! That which works best to prove your point. This is NOT what Jesus did!

For whether is easier, to say, Thy sins be forgiven thee; or to say, Arise, and walk?" Matt 9:5

Give God alone the glory!
I don’t seek after a sign. I can read about all the signs I need and I believe they happened in the way and for the reason they were intended.

Have you seen my world? Have you seen the world that my more immediate neighbors see when they see me... ?
I don’t need to see your world. I can read and the Bible tells me that all those gifts of the Spirit would cease. And they have. That is verifiable. I can see all kinds of people claiming this and that but when it counts they can demonstrate nothing. Some may try to jibber jabber some tongue but I believe that lately people are even getting away from that because they see how ridiculous it is.


"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12
This is a parallel passage to Mk 16:17-20. Those that believed in the early church could do all sorts of things.


"I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me." John 5:30
"I must work the works of him that sent me, while it is day: the night cometh, when no man can work.
As long as I am in the world, I am the light of the world." John 9:4-5


But then again...

"Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel, but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven." Matt 5:14-16
nice, but how do you know what the will of the father is without the revealed will in the word. It is within the word that God has revealed his will for us. Are you equating yourself to Jesus in that you receive the will in the same way he did?
 

CoreIssue

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Hello @CoreIssue,
Matthew 28-29, records what the Lord Jesus said following His resurrection.

* Were they? How do you account for the reaction of the believing Jews to Peter in Acts 11:1-3.

* Was it? How do you account for the words of James in Acts 21:20?

* Did they? Are you referring to the Lord sending out a further seventy in Luke 10?

* Did it? Before the rapture? The Lord said that, 'The Gospel of the Kingdom' would be preached in all the world for a witness, before the end comes (the end of that dispensation): but that will be the role of restored Israel now, as Priests unto God, because that promise was dependent on the nation of Israel's repentance, but they refused, and went out into blindness and unbelief (temporarily), so the end (and Christ's return) as promised through Peter in Acts 3, did not take place.

*Was it? That is not what the record reveals.

* Didn't He? What about Matthew 10:5

* The door of the kingdom was not opened to the Gentiles until approximately forty years after the Lord's ascension, in Acts 10.

* Of course the gospel message is on the lips of most believers, but this commission is very obviously directed to the eleven particularly.

Thank you
In Christ Jesus
Chris
You have to remember Peter did not like preaching to the Gentiles. After Pentecost he did not.
Acts 21:20 New International Version (NIV)
20 When they heard this, they praised God. Then they said to Paul: “You see, brother, how many thousands of Jews have believed, and all of them are zealous for the law.
Has nothing to do with the topic.

They were trying to be legalistic Christians. They saw themselves as different from Gentiles.

Same with Peter.

70 were still under Mosaic law.
Matthew 28:19 New International Version (NIV)
19 Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit,

All nations includes Gentiles.

How could this be if the church did not begin until Pentecost?
 

Waiting on him

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Most people? How about none.



The body of Christ? Are those who have believed, repented and been baptized into Christ or into the body they are one in the same.



Nobody is guided into any new revelation today. Jude says that we should contend for THE FAITH that has ONCE been delivered unto the saints. There are no more deliveries of truth.



I don’t seek after a sign. I can read about all the signs I need and I believe they happened in the way and for the reason they were intended.


I don’t need to see your world. I can read and the Bible tells me that all those gifts of the Spirit would cease. And they have. That is verifiable. I can see all kinds of people claiming this and that but when it counts they can demonstrate nothing. Some may try to jibber jabber some tongue but I believe that lately people are even getting away from that because they see how ridiculous it is.



This is a parallel passage to Mk 16:17-20. Those that believed in the early church could do all sorts of things.


nice, but how do you know what the will of the father is without the revealed will in the word. It is within the word that God has revealed his will for us. Are you equating yourself to Jesus in that you receive the will in the same way he did?
Just wanted to ask if you believe that you have any gift of the Holy Spirit, not speaking of the miraculous gifts. Because I am also a cessationist.