1 Corinthians 2 is so abused

Davy said:

This is why the early Church fathers also looked for the coming a singular Antichrist figure.

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Ah, well to be clear there, i am pretty sure they were Paul's "wolves"
too

stunnedbygrace said:

Its a bit odd to say you guess you can't speak further with a person until they know something but not share that something you know but they don't...

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but wadr that is not what i said.
If you seek them, you will find them, ok
which i'm sorry how that maybe sounds...but i just changed my mind here ok
my apologies, bad timing maybe

CNKW3 said:

Ok, you don’t like contrast, then we will go with compare. In order to compare there must be two DIFFERENT subjects in mind. That is all I’m saying, but you don’t care you will just argue with it anyway.

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i was under the impression that they were functionally opposites, might be wrong

CNKW3 said:

Through the word we have today. John was speaking to people that would have had spiritual gifts. A real anointing or unction. They did not have the word we have today so they were given miraculous, spiritual gifts. We dont need that today.

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lol

amadeus said:

yea, do good, or do evil, that we may be dismayed, and behold it together." Isaiah 41:23

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kind of a weird thing to say, huh?

CNKW3 said:

Of course I can. The truth is that Christ appeared to Saul in person. That has not happened since and does not happen today. If you can’t see that appearing to Saul was a miraculous event then I can’t help you.
Jesus specifically said...
Acts 9:15 But the Lord said unto him, Go thy way: for he is a chosen vessel unto me, to bear my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel:
Saul was a CHOSEN VESSEL of Christ. You and I are not. Did he say that about anybody else? If you don’t understand this then I’m sorry there will be no help for you.

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i can't import searches on iPad, but a reader can google "we are chosen vessels" and then decide i guess

Butterfly said:

I am late reading this thread, and haven't finished yet - so if someone has already mentioned this , I apologise.
Do you believe that Paul was an apostle ?
Do you believe that he was Led and guided by the Holy Spirit ?
You see if you respond ' yes ' to both, well that message wasn't just for those actually hearing it that day - which is what you are saying isn't it?
So I am not sure you can use this as a basis of evidence that he was ' only ' speaking to the twelve at the time, unless you don't believe that the Holy Spirit came to Paul on the Damascus road!!
Rita

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of course he can!
narf

bbyrd009 said:

Ah, well to be clear there, i am pretty sure they were Paul's "wolves"
too
but wadr that is not what i said.
If you seek them, you will find them, ok
which i'm sorry how that maybe sounds...but i just changed my mind here ok
my apologies, bad timing maybe

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Well, yeah, the wolves in sheep's clothing represent the "many antichrists" of 1 John 2:18. They are the followers of the Antichrist.

The reason why it's so important to understand that the word "antichrist" is about a mimic of Jesus Christ is because of Satan's original sin in the beginning. He coveted God's throne, wanting to be GOD.

So when we see God's Word telling us about a false one coming that's going to do great signs and wonders to deceive, and exalt himself over all that is called God or that is worshiped, and whom others will say, "Behold, Christ is here, or there", and our Lord Jesus said don't believe it, then we should... automatically recall what Satan tried to do in the beginning when he first sinned in coveting God's throne.

But I guess the majority are going to have to find this out the hard way, and that's what makes me feel sad. Many brethren are going to be fooled by the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem in our near future, with his claiming to be God and working miracles so powerful it would almost deceive even Christ's elect.

bbyrd009 said:

Ah, well to be clear there, i am pretty sure they were Paul's "wolves"
too
but wadr that is not what i said.
If you seek them, you will find them, ok
which i'm sorry how that maybe sounds...but i just changed my mind here ok
my apologies, bad timing maybe

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Bad timing? WADR, I'm calling bull. And no one else following the conversation has stepped in to give me these verses either and I know them and know they eagerly desire to help me whenever they can. So I am thinking they don't know of these 5 points either.

So you are saying you have some knowledge of scripture that I don't and it appears no one else does either (a fair statement), then saying that because you have this knowledge and I /we don't that we can't continue a conversation. And then you refuse to share the verses that gave you this secret knowledge, but tell us to seek them and we will find them?

Yep, I'm calling bull.

CNKW3 said:

I do believe in Jesus. I do believe he is the son of God and that he was crucified, buried and raised from the dead and I have seen nothing nor do I need to see.

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All of God's people need to see, but there is seeing with the eyes of flesh and seeing by the Holy Spirit isn't there?

"Where there is no vision, the people perish..." Prov 29:18

But then Jesus said:

"And in them is fulfilled the prophecy of Esaias, which saith, By hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and shall not perceive:
For this people's heart is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes they have closed; lest at any time they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears, and should understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
But blessed are your eyes, for they see: and your ears, for they hear." Matt 13:14-16

No I don’t. But God has already preprogrammed this. He knows there will be preachers teacher, elders, deacons, etc. the qualifications of those are listed in scripture. He has not personally decided who is going to be an elder, deacon, preacher. Do you think God personally called Billy Graham to be an evangelist? I don’t, because he did not teach the truth. God wouldn’t “call” someone to preach and then have them spend 60 years preaching false doctrine.

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I glad you admit to not knowing all of God's business but sorry to see you have already made your mind so finally as if none of what you already hold may turn out to be in error. All of us believe we are right or we likely would not be long staying where we are.

"Every way of a man is right in his own eyes: but the LORD pondereth the hearts." Prov 21:2

As to Billy Graham, I am sorry to hear he displeased you. Hopefully he pleased God for that is what matters, isn't it? I never saw Billy himself nor have I ever heard one of his messages, but some others have had more favorable reports than you. You would probably say they are all in error. It is a good thing that we are not the final judges of others, is it not? Did Jesus never advise to speak out all of our criticisms of others to everyone around us or was He more in favor of judging not...?

Every reply from me on this board is led by the HS. I don’t give you my opinion. I give you what the HS has given me to give to you.

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You are not the only one on this board to make that claim... and yet you do not agree with all of them. We might need to have an unbiased arbitrator brought to decide among you, who if any are led by the Holy Spirit. Hmmm, is not God unbiased? Let's give Him the job!

An example of Jeremiah 10....
In all of Billy Graham’s crusades he would close by asking those who believe in Jesus to get out of there seat, come down front as a public confession, (sort of an altar call). He would then say a few more words, say a prayer, and then they were to seek out some church somewhere.
All of this is complete false doctrine directed by man and not by God. He came up with this. You cannot find one example of a billy Graham invitation in all the NT. Nobody was ever directed to do what he asked you to do. Complete man made. This is not my opinion. I challenge you to find one example in Gods word.

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You always apparently know the mind of God and always follow His will precisely. Why does anyone need a Bible or the Holy Spirit when you are around? Are you already an overcomer who has overcome all the world as Jesus overcame the world?

see, I can know 100% you are not being led by the Spirit. Because the Spirit said...
John 6:63 It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life.
Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and is a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart.

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I do not question the scriptures you have quoted, but you do miss perhaps the most important point. Jesus said the "words that I speak... they are life". Hebrews reads that the "word of God is quick and powerful, and sharper than any two edged sword...". No where does it say that the written scriptures are the Word of God. Rather what the scripture does say is this:

"And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth." John 1:14

I might understand from that that the Word of God became Jesus, a man of flesh, but not that the Word of God became a written Bible. The written Bible is a compilations of letters written by men as inspired to do so by God. In His [God's] mouth they certainly were the Word of God, but not so when printed on paper or whenever you or I choose to quote a few lines verbatim.

" [God]Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life" II Cor 3:6

The letter of the Bible alone unread, ununderstood and uninterpreted is a dead letter. There is however a quickening Spirit that can bring it to Life in a person as it is spoken.

The word quick, means living. It is a living word. It is not dead. Just because people misuse them does not mean they are dead words. The serpent used Gods word with Eve. All he did was add a little 3 letter word. There was nothing wrong with the words, only in how they were used.

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You err in assigning to that evil one the ability to use the Word of God. The Word of God has Life through the Holy Spirit. That evil does not now and did not then in the Garden of Eden have the Holy Spirit which means he did not have the Word of God. What he had were dead words. He had then in the Garden as when he tempted Jesus on the mount only the dead scriptures which he believed were the Word of God. Like you he did not know what the Word of God was. This is presumption rather unction.

The Bible warns us of this..

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2 Peter 3:16 As also in all his epistles, speaking in them of these things; in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction.
This is what most people do. They misuse scripture and that will be to their own destruction. Just because people preach “Jesus” doesn’t mean they are preaching truth. It matters what and how one uses the word. James tells us that not everybody should be a teacher.

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Wise words... but like what Solomon wrote they may fail to help the writer repair the problems in his own backyard... if they have no Life in them.

Once again...THIS WAS NOT SPOKEN DIRECTLY TO YOU. You were never promised miraculous memory.

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So why does anyone who was spoken to directly bother to read them? Why did God bother to inspire some man write them down at all?

you can’t overcome in any way you choose. You must do it on his terms not yours.

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What needs to be overcome is that which God indicated was standing between men and Him:

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

This was written to a church of Christ in Ephesus. If you want to overcome you must do it in the Lords church. Not in just any church you choose. You must overcome on his terms not yours.

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So then by all means let us tear out of our Bibles and throw away any pages or books addressed to Ephesus, Titus, Timothy, Corinth, Philemon, Thessalonica, Colosse, Philippi, Galatia, or, hmmm, did I miss any? If so we can take of them later. Why weren't you around when someone determined the canon of scripture? Think how much paper would have been saved?

So what are terms for any potential overcomer? Dare we read from a book written by someone named John and assume it pertains to us? Would he have written down correctly what each one of needs to overcome in ourselves?

"For all that is in the world, the lust of the flesh, and the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life, is not of the Father, but is of the world." I John 2:16

@CNKW3

this goes back to what does “that which is perfect” in 1 Cor 13 mean. Paul tells us those gifts would cease when...”that which is perfect” comes. He is not talking about Jesus and his return, he is speaking of the fully revealed will in the word we have been given.

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Is he now? And of course, David was not anointed by God when he spoke to Solomon about this thing of perfection, right?

"And thou, Solomon my son, know thou the God of thy father, and serve him with a perfect heart and with a willing mind: for the LORD searcheth all hearts, and understandeth all the imaginations of the thoughts: if thou seek him, he will be found of thee; but if thou forsake him, he will cast thee off for ever." I Chron 28:9

We don’t know in part anymore as they did. We know fully Gods will. We have “that which is perfect”. Therefore gifts have ceased. You know they have because nobody has them anymore. Some may claim they do but cant demonstrate.

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And if anyone has any doubts, I would guess they could always ask you, right? The Apostle Paul was, himself, seeing still as through a "glass darkly", because he did not have the gift of the Holy Ghost and had not yet been led into all truth, but @CNKW3 must have already moved beyond Paul...

I am afraid you'll never see such a demonstration due to your own expressed lack of faith. For this reason also I will give you no examples. This then I would guess puts you in the same camp as these Pharisees:

"Then certain of the scribes and of the Pharisees answered, saying, Master, we would see a sign from thee.

But he answered and said unto them, An evil and adulterous generation seeketh after a sign; and there shall no sign be given to it, but the sign of the prophet Jonas:" Matt 12:38-39

If you have the sign of Jonas, that is at least something on which to build. Edification is important, is it not?

too vague. whats an example of “limiting God”?

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The Israelites did it... and so can we for our God is no respecter of persons:

"Yea, they turned back and tempted God, and limited the Holy One of Israel." Psalm 78:41

The Apostle Paul warned us not to limit Him here:

"Quench not the Spirit." I Thess 5:19

Any time a person chooses mammon rather than God He is limiting what God can do in that man's life. Any time you or anyone says that God does not do that or work that way anymore, you are limiting God.

This other passage talks about “his own sheep”. Who are “his own sheep”. This discussion would take a whole other page.

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His sheep on the right hand. God forbid that any of us end up as goats on the left hand!

CNKW3 said:

In order to compare there must be two DIFFERENT subjects in mind.

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must be? Are you sure? Would you bet your life on it? Bc you are wrong again! no offense

CNKW3 said:

That is all I’m saying, but you don’t care you will just argue with it anyway.

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are you fam with Snoop Dogg, bac?

interesting the way the passage is written as if in contrast, but actually comparing though, huh? Or at least that is the sense i get after spending the day with it. Apparently the effect is much more marked in Aramaic, not that i would know

amadeus said:

As to Billy Graham

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hmm, i mostly dismiss evangelists, loved him though. Don't recall a single support of DeathMoreAbundantly ever coming from his lips. Not that i really followed him or anything tho

Davy said:

Well, yeah, the wolves in sheep's clothing represent the "many antichrists" of 1 John 2:18. They are the followers of the Antichrist.

The reason why it's so important to understand that the word "antichrist" is about a mimic of Jesus Christ is because of Satan's original sin in the beginning. He coveted God's throne, wanting to be GOD.

So when we see God's Word telling us about a false one coming that's going to do great signs and wonders to deceive, and exalt himself over all that is called God or that is worshiped, and whom others will say, "Behold, Christ is here, or there", and our Lord Jesus said don't believe it, then we should... automatically recall what Satan tried to do in the beginning when he first sinned in coveting God's throne.

But I guess the majority are going to have to find this out the hard way, and that's what makes me feel sad. Many brethren are going to be fooled by the coming Antichrist to Jerusalem in our near future, with his claiming to be God and working miracles so powerful it would almost deceive even Christ's elect.

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ok, ty

stunnedbygrace said:

Bad timing? WADR, I'm calling bull. And no one else following the conversation has stepped in to give me these verses either and I know them and know they eagerly desire to help me whenever they can. So I am thinking they don't know of these 5 points either.

So you are saying you have some knowledge of scripture that I don't and it appears no one else does either (a fair statement), then saying that because you have this knowledge and I /we don't that we can't continue a conversation. And then you refuse to share the verses that gave you this secret knowledge, but tell us to seek them and we will find them?

Yep, I'm calling bull.

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Ha, guess I don't blame you a bit
nor P4L, ok
have a nice evening then

CNKW3 said:

Why don’t you give me a couple of examples of what you just said. Who has these “gifts” and what are they.
People believe that everything in man is sinful. No it is not. We all have natural God given desires that are not sinful. We make them sinful by taking them beyond where they were designed to go. That is the “flesh” taking over.
The Spirit does teach today. THROUGH HIS WORD.

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1 Corinthians 1:19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.
1 Corinthians 1:20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?
1 Corinthians 1:21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.
1 Corinthians 1:22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

The entire point of having "eyes to see" talked about by Jesus, is explained here in 1 Corinthians. Two of the spiritual gifts is "preaching" and "teaching", we are told and explained why here, that God commanded that no man can be a "scribe" of the Word of God but only through the "foolishness of preaching to save them that believe". You can not know God or be saved, without the Word of God being preached to you by someone guided by the Holy Spirit with the gift of teaching.

Acts 8:28 Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
Acts 8:29 Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
Acts 8:30 And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
Acts 8:31 And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.

For those that know the story, Philip has the gift of evangelist, after Jesus died the Holy Spirit spoke to Philip to join the man at the chariot. Right as Philip was told to go speak to the man, the man on the chariot was reading the Word of God but did not understand. Philip asked him if he understood, and the man replied "how can I, except some an should guide me". After Philip preached to the man about Jesus Christ, the man asked to baptized and be saved. But if the Holy Spirit did not "SPEAK" to Philip to help the man understand the Word of God, the man would never have be saved or knew Jesus, Esaias would have been a nice story and dismissed as such with the man going on his life without ever becoming a Christian.

Isaiah 61:1 The Spirit of the Lord God is upon me; because the Lord hath anointed me to preach good tidings unto the meek; he hath sent me to bind up the brokenhearted, to proclaim liberty to the captives, and the opening of the prison to them that are bound;
Isaiah 61:2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the Lord, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn;

Receiving the Holy Spirit is nothing new, for as the Word of God says "nothing is new under the sun". In the Old Testament the Holy Spirit was sent to God's prophets, so that being filled with the Holy Spirit they could preach and prophesize. There was nothing the prophets could read to teach or to learn in those days, because their words speaking it and having it written down was the first time in the history of mankind that God revealed those secrets to man. The only difference between then and now, is that Jesus sent the Holy Spirit to all of us after he died, as a comforter to guide us how to know God.

1 Corinthians 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?

bbyrd009 said:

"secret knowledge" lol, Jesus

how many have you found so far, btw?

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None.

I can only go on the reason I personally believed at first .Because I could suddenly see. I know you seem to think there are also 4 other reasons why I believe but I'm not aware of them and you don't want to discuss scripture on which you base what you say, so you can keep on asking me if I've yet found the other 4 reasons for why I believe but I'm probly not gonna answer ok wadr Mr nehushtan.

ok good one, got me!

"seeing is believing"


actually most likely an inferred endorsement by "Cyrene" i guess,
"Cyrene remained one of the great intellectual centers of the classical world, and scholars of all plumage travelled from and to it. Many of these were Jews as Cyrene was home to an extensive Jewish community. All three synoptic gospels tell of Simon of Cyrene, who was pressed into carrying Jesus' cross to Golgotha (SEE FULL CONCORDANCE). This is of course highly remarkable since Jesus had told his followers that they had to carry their own crosses (MATTHEW 16:24, MARK 8:34, LUKE 9:23)..." The amazing name Cyrene: meaning and etymology

but the point, further down somewhere, according to them, is that the account can be inferred as an endorsement of the NT by the Jewish Cyrenes, a major school. With a great example of how to evangelize tossed on top, sure, but then we don't follow that either huh

bbyrd009 said:

hmm, i mostly dismiss evangelists, loved him though. Don't recall a single support of DMA ever coming from his lips. Not that i followed him or anything tho

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@amadeus you?

at least if he held that belief i don't recall him focusing on it much
at all
all of his sermons I recall, maybe ten, were all practical?
hmm
dang now i gotta go look arg

You're starting to sound like jellyjam to me...

i consider that a compliment
Coat of many colors

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