Hate

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SkyWriting

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For those who say God is only love, let them explain Noah's flood or the second coming. As well Sodom and Gomorrah.

All past events are Faith based. You can believe whatever people can convince you is true about the past.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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As we said, God does not call an organization or institution to be the Church (the body of Christ) He calls individuals begotten of His spirit to be the Church. No institution is begotten of the spirit.

There is no way for any Church institution to lose the call of God since he never called any Church institution in the first place. He already has a Church, it is comprised of its Head Christ Jesus our Lord and the body of him, that is all who have been joined to the body through consecration and sacrifice. All other Church organizations and institution are as we said man-made and man-contrived religious institutions.



The light of the lamp has already been removed from the professing church even as the Lord forewarned it would be. We are not in the Ephesus stage of the church, we are in the Laodicean stage, the last stage of the Church’s history, and as the Lord warned he has spewed them out of his mouth.

“Because of the current lukewarm condition of the professed Church as a whole, our Lord (in Rev 3:16) implied that there was little or no hope of bestirring the nominal mass to a favorable reception of his counsel. There was a time when stewardship of the Word was entrusted to the nominal Christian Church, who were God’s ministers of reconciliation to the world, commissioned to teach and preach the gospel to the spiritually poor “Babylon [a mixture of Catholic and Protestant church systems] was (past tense) a golden cup in the Lord’s hand; she made the whole earth drunk. The nations drank her wine (false doctrines); therefore they have now gone mad.”(Jer. 51:7).

Jesus’ remarks (in verse 16) indicate this privilege would be revoked; indeed a fulfillment along these very lines has already commenced. Prophetically, the Master declares it is merely a matter of time before he willspew out” (utterly disavow or vomit forth) the church systems per se.

As the Lord states, Babylon the Great (the professing church) has fallen (Rev 18:2). And as such the Lord is calling his true people to come out of these systems, theripewheat (the wise virgins”) have already departed, all that remains in these systems are the tares” (nominal Christians, being bundled together for the fire of the Great Day) and of course theunripe” or “foolish virgins”, mere “babes”, unripe wheat, malnourished, lacking the proper food for any true growth in the graces and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

All the spirit begotten presently still trapped within these institutions of men are butbabesfor there is no room nor means for spiritual growth within these organizations,

For the bed (the creed bed or crib) is shorter than that a man (a fully developed man, a mature Christian) can stretch himself on it: and the covering narrower than that he can wrap himself in it (God’s Word being narrowed by an erroneous theology, which purports to teach that only a few chosen ones will be saved while all others are either destroyed or tormented forever).” Isa 28:20

Seeing as the “wise virgins” the mature have all but vacated Babylon as in accordance with the will of God it is obvious that what remains are but mere “babes”, unripe wheat, malnourished, lacking the proper food for any true growth in the graces and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why is this you ask?

Because with the fall of Babylon and the call to vacate there no longer is heardthe sound of the harpist” (those who are able to harmoniously interpret the word of God), nor themusicians” (those who can sing; i.e. proclaim truthfully the tidings of great joy, the song of Moses and the Lamb, Rev 15:3) nor theflutists” (character teachers) nor any truecraftsman” (true teachers) of any sorts found within her, for thelight of the lamp” (the light of the Bible, the truth) no longer shines in her anymore, neither is heard thevoice of the bridegroom OR the bride” (because the true Church, the “wise virgins” have all left separating themselves from the false professing church). Rev 18:22, 23

There is nothing left for the Lord’s people in these systems. The only reason most of the Lord’s people still remain is because of the tender ties which bind them there, family, friends and associates for whom they are reluctant to leave behind, that and what they might think of them should they depart, thus the fear of men brings a snare (entraps them). Prov 29:25

Jesus said:


Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me (follow my example, heed my words, my counsel, my admonition to “Come out of her my people”) is not worthy of me. Whoever finds their life (attempts to hold on to the present life with all its various attachments) will lose it, and whoever loses their life (lets this all go) for my sake will find it.” (Matt 10:37-39)

So likewise, whoever of you does not forsake all that he has (not only worldly possessions and attachments, family, friends and etc., but likewise your pride, respect and the honor of men) cannot be My disciple.” (Luke 14:33)



Although personal contact between the brethren is preferable, not everyone is capable of meeting with the brethren face to face (some are home bound or the distance may be a factor), nevertheless many of us are assembling together even now when we converse with one another of like precious faith on forums such as these. It is not necessary (nor advisable baring the Lord’s injunction to separate ourselves from the worldly church) to be joined to one of the various branches of Babylon in order for us to assemble together.

There’s nothing wrong with meeting in the homes of the brethren for study, this was the practice of the early church and we (Bible Students) continue this same practice. The only time we meet in a building is if a class gets too big or if we’re having a convention. Even then the building is still only a rented hall or something; we own no buildings or church properties. In electing our elders, deacons and etc. we follow the Scriptures.

TLDR. By the way, who is "we"? Is that the royal we? Or are you writing with someone else?
 

Harvest 1874

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TLDR. By the way, who is "we"? Is that the royal we? Or are you writing with someone else?

Not even going to bother with this one as it has been explained on numerous occasions, you'll just have to look it up if its that important to you.
 
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tzcho2

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Matthew 7:1-5
“Judge not, that you be not judged. For with the judgment you pronounce you will be judged, and with the measure you use it will be measured to you. Why do you see the speck that is in your brother's eye, but do not notice the log that is in your own eye? Or how can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when there is the log in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

Luke 6:37
“Judge not, and you will not be judged; condemn not, and you will not be condemned; forgive, and you will be forgiven;

John 7:24
Do not judge by appearances, but judge with right judgment.”

James 4:11-12
Do not speak evil against one another, brothers. The one who speaks against a brother or judges his brother, speaks evil against the law and judges the law. But if you judge the law, you are not a doer of the law but a judge. There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

James 4:12
There is only one lawgiver and judge, he who is able to save and to destroy. But who are you to judge your neighbor?

Romans 2:1-3
Therefore you have no excuse, O man, every one of you who judges. For in passing judgment on another you condemn yourself, because you, the judge, practice the very same things. We know that the judgment of God rightly falls on those who practice such things. Do you suppose, O man—you who judge those who practice such things and yet do them yourself—that you will escape the judgment of God?

Ephesians 4:29
Let no corrupting talk come out of your mouths, but only such as is good for building up, as fits the occasion, that it may give grace to those who hear.

Romans 14:1-13
As for the one who is weak in faith, welcome him, but not to quarrel over opinions. One person believes he may eat anything, while the weak person eats only vegetables. Let not the one who eats despise the one who abstains, and let not the one who abstains pass judgment on the one who eats, for God has welcomed him. Who are you to pass judgment on the servant of another? It is before his own master that he stands or falls. And he will be upheld, for the Lord is able to make him stand. One person esteems one day as better than another, while another esteems all days alike. Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind. ...

Matthew 7:5
You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye.

John 8:7
And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.”
Those scriptures were not about false teachers or false prophets- don't you know that?
 

Lady Crosstalk

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There are clear warnings that we are not to embrace false doctrine, cults and other religions.

That we are to judge them, rebuke them and correct them.

We tried to do so with love and gentleness at first. But if they do not listen we are to do so again firmly. If they still do not listen we are supposed to reject as beyond hope.

The Bible makes it clear that if we truly belong to Christ we cannot tolerate the error of others after a period of time because to do so is to risk pollution.

Yes--Paul tells us to put them out of the church by having nothing to do with them--to "treat them as you would a tax collector" and to not even eat with them.
 
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Taken

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HATE <---> OP

Hate IS NOT the OPPOSITE of Love.

Of course He who IS Love, can Hate.

Hate IS a "STRONG DISLIKE of Something".

God Loves His Creations.

God Does NOT always LIKE His Creations.

God gives the Authority of His Power to His People, that they can Love all men.

God never Requires that ALL men must LIKE ALL other men or things.

As a matter of Fact, Gods Teachings, INCLUDE avoiding men one does not LIKE and avoiding things that God does not LIKE.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Lady Crosstalk

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HATE <---> OP

Hate IS NOT the OPPOSITE of Love.

Of course He who IS Love, can Hate.

Hate IS a "STRONG DISLIKE of Something".

God Loves His Creations.

God Does NOT always LIKE His Creations.

God gives the Authority of His Power to His People, that they can Love all men.

God never Requires that ALL men must LIKE ALL other men or things.

As a matter of Fact, Gods Teachings, INCLUDE avoiding men one does not LIKE and avoiding things that God does not LIKE.

Glory to God,
Taken


I think the "hate" that God has for miscreants is more in the way of strong disapproval. One can sincerely adore one's child but yet, when he/she does something very wrong, express strong disapproval. When we say that we "hate" someone or something, we disassociate with that thing or person. God continues to strive with a people (until He doesn't) even though He hates the sin that they do. If they continue to ignore His warnings, then He turns them over to their sin and the destruction that follows.

Children often confuse love and approval (this of course, is not limited to children). They seem to think, "If you really loved me, you would approve of me and what I do, at all times." Separating the child from his/her sin is what a truly loving parent does. The parent rightly says, "I love you but I hate what you did. If you want my approval, it must be earned by good behavior even though I always love you and always will."
 

Taken

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I think the "hate" that God has for miscreants is more in the way of strong disapproval. One can sincerely adore one's child but yet, when he/she does something very wrong, express strong disapproval. When we say that we "hate" someone or something, we disassociate with that thing or person. God continues to strive with a people (until He doesn't) even though He hates the sin that they do. If they continue to ignore His warnings, then He turns them over to their sin and the destruction that follows.

Children often confuse love and approval (this of course, is not limited to children). They seem to think, "If you really loved me, you would approve of me and what I do, at all times." Separating the child from his/her sin is what a truly loving parent does. The parent rightly says, "I love you but I hate what you did. If you want my approval, it must be earned by good behavior even though I always love you and always will."

It seems you are leaning toward the phrase;
Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner.

However in the END, it is the the Sinner that is accountable, not the Sin Itself.

People become Confused, (IMO), when one says, "hate the Sin, Love the Sinner".... AS IF LOVE, shall SUPERSEDE the "DUE" Consequence accountable to the Sinner.

(Sort of like when people say, Well, if God Loves People, then HOW CAN He allow or cause terrible things to Happen to People.)

Love does NOT alleviate a person from being accountable for their sins, or punished for their sins.

Glory to God,
Taken
 

Soverign Grace

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Probably both

God certainly removed the lamp stand from a local body I once belonged to in the 90's. There became much division when a new associate pastor came on board. He and his wife stirred up all kinds of division and the Church eventually folded. Very sad as it once was a loving active Church. :( And yes, the small house meetings (which I do love) are definitely subject to the wiles of Satan-pride and leadership issues ensue there too. The last home study I attended was the best I have EVER had the privilege to be part of. Thee were about 10-12 of us and we used a book. Each week another person would "lead" (mainly just asking each person the questions from our homework) so, ALL, men and women were as one and nobody seemed to feel the need to Lord it over the others. I have since been unable to find such an awesome gathering.

This apparently happens frequently. I've seen so much over the years and I've experienced pride in leadership. We attended a church and I didn't like the family; they were rude and worldly. They were obsessed with what "connections" they had and were just very carnal. They did something corrupt and hurt a lot of people. The pastor called us over to his house and told us that they stirred up so much trouble in a church they formerly belonged to that there are people who refuse to attend church today. He left and the corrupt family found a new patsy pastor. Some seem able to sear their consciences for the almighty buck. I have such disregard for that pastor - he knew how corrupt the family was and even one of their former employees spoke out against them. She told me she was worried because they were misleading so many. But they're manipulating a new crop of young believers; a leopard doesn't change its spots. I think it would be a blessing to the unwary if their church folded.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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It seems you are leaning toward the phrase;
Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner.

However in the END, it is the the Sinner that is accountable, not the Sin Itself.

People become Confused, (IMO), when one says, "hate the Sin, Love the Sinner".... AS IF LOVE, shall SUPERSEDE the "DUE" Consequence accountable to the Sinner.

(Sort of like when people say, Well, if God Loves People, then HOW CAN He allow or cause terrible things to Happen to People.)

Love does NOT alleviate a person from being accountable for their sins, or punished for their sins.

Glory to God,
Taken


True, but then, a loving parent does not spare the child from the due consequences of his/her bad behavior.
 

Taken

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True, but then, a loving parent does not spare the child from the due consequences of his/her bad behavior.

Correct, Agree and the point.

The Forgiveness Given hinges ON Gods Grace and the Forgiveness Given, as taugh forward to Man and Man, Man and Family, Man and his Children.
However the Consequence is Still Apply.

God Bless,
Taken
 

SkyWriting

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Those scriptures were not about false teachers or false prophets- don't you know that?

Which people do you know in the catagory of True Teachers and True Prophets?
Becasue that's a pretty short list for me.

The remainder of people would be those intended.

Titus 3:2-7
To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,


.
 

tzcho2

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Which people do you know in the catagory of True Teachers and True Prophets?
Becasue that's a pretty short list for me.

The remainder of people would be those intended.

Titus 3:2-7
To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,


.
We are to read and understand the scripture in the context of the verses around it and not yank scripture out of context that it was written and give it meaning that it was not intended for. Titus 3: was not speaking of dealing with false teachers or false prophets.
It is the job of every Christian to study the scriptures to show yourself approved as a workman, correctly dividing the word , we do that by understanding scriptures as they are written.
How to tell false from true? pretty obvious because we are to use the scripture to measure the messages by. By Bible scripture we compare and authenticate any teaching. If it is from the Holy Spirit it will be consistent with the message spoken throughout the scripture.The Holy Spirit does not contradict the scripture or Jesus or any of the scripture messages. Joseph Smith was a false prophet. False prophets always make claims they are specially chosen, that "god" spoke to them. He claimed an angel called Moroni spoke to him, giving him extra-biblical messages, preaches another false gospel.

Matthew 7:15
"Beware of false prophets. They come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves."

Matt 24:23-"…23At that time, if anyone says to you, ‘Look, here is the Christ!’ or ‘There He is,’ do not believe it. 24 For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and wonders that would deceive even the elect, if that were possible. 25 See, I have told you in advance.…"
 

CoreIssue

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Which people do you know in the catagory of True Teachers and True Prophets?
Becasue that's a pretty short list for me.

The remainder of people would be those intended.

Titus 3:2-7
To speak evil of no one, to avoid quarreling, to be gentle, and to show perfect courtesy toward all people. For we ourselves were once foolish, disobedient, led astray, slaves to various passions and pleasures, passing our days in malice and envy, hated by others and hating one another. But when the goodness and loving kindness of God our Savior appeared, he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit, whom he poured out on us richly through Jesus Christ our Savior,.
Some people consider telling the truth About an evil person is speaking evil. Why?

You do understand it is talking about unjust accusations?
 

SkyWriting

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Some people consider telling the truth About an evil person is speaking evil. Why?
You do understand it is talking about unjust accusations?

Then you are a just trial?

1 Samuel 16:7
But the Lord said to Samuel, “Do not look on his appearance or on the height of his stature, because I have rejected him.
For the Lord sees not as man sees: man looks on the outward appearance, but the Lord looks on the heart.”

1 Corinthians 4
3 I care very little, however, if I am judged by you or by any human court. In fact, I do not even judge myself. 4 My conscience is clear, but that does not vindicate me. It is the Lord who judges me.

5 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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Some people consider telling the truth About an evil person is speaking evil. Why?

You do understand it is talking about unjust accusations?

Totally agree. The Apostle Paul was clear about what should be done with those who are bringing dishonor on the church because of their behavior and/or false teaching. They should be publicly called out and, if they do not turn from their wicked ways and/or false teaching, they should be put out of the church. (See 1 Corinthians especially for these instructions.) It is NOT "slander" if it is true. It is not "gossip" when the conduct and teaching of such a person is polluting the church. The leaders of a church should be VERY zealous to guard the purity of the church and its teaching.
 

SkyWriting

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Totally agree. The Apostle Paul was clear about what should be done with those who are bringing dishonor on the church because of their behavior and/or false teaching. They should be publicly called out and, if they do not turn from their wicked ways and/or false teaching, they should be put out of the church. (See 1 Corinthians especially for these instructions.) It is NOT "slander" if it is true. It is not "gossip" when the conduct and teaching of such a person is polluting the church. The leaders of a church should be VERY zealous to guard the purity of the church and its teaching.

I like churches that welcome visitors. The more people inside a church the better the Sunday School attendance, I always say. And people can hear better if they are inside. My wife and I attended any denominations of any church that was wheelchair accessible. That was our rule on what people to worship with. Congregations where we could get into the building.
 

Lady Crosstalk

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I like churches that welcome visitors. The more people inside a church the better the Sunday School attendance, I always say. And people can hear better if they are inside. My wife and I attended any denominations of any church that was wheelchair accessible. That was our rule on what people to worship with. Congregations where we could get into the building.

Well most churches try to be "barrier-free" these days. But what does that have to do with my post that you quoted?
 

SkyWriting

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Well most churches try to be "barrier-free" these days. But what does that have to do with my post that you quoted?
Contrasting with the Game of Thrones Ice-Wall you were describing that surrounds your church.


They should be publicly called out and, if they do not turn from their wicked ways and/or false teaching, they should be put out of the church..... The leaders of a church should be VERY zealous to guard the purity of the church and its teaching.

game-of-thrones-the-wall-history-03.jpg