What Do You Learn from Debate?

tzcho2 · May 22, 2019

ScottA said:
I am not sure which is worse or best, to cover up the underbelly of would-be christian activity...or turn the lights on. I think I am for counting the cockroaches.

That is how you think the Holy Spirit speaks, is it? where does He refer to people as "cockroaches"

Episkopos · May 22, 2019

illini1959 said:
Could I ask what you take "women" to mean, and if not actual women, then what and how do you come by that definition?

Thank you ~

I know that in the Greek..woman in that context means "wife". It is the same thing in French. So Paul prefers for the wives to let their husbands speak. That's why he says...let your husbands explain it at home.

Was this the normal meetings he was referring to?

Could any woman operate in her gift?

Or were these special meetings of the leadership?

marks · May 22, 2019

ScottA said:
No, I am not going to answer what can simply be assessed biblically and spiritually. You are just fishing for accusation material.

What do the scriptures say?

The Scriptures say to test those who claim to speak for God. So that's what we do.

Why are you afraid of the light?

Much love!

tzcho2 · May 22, 2019

"ByGrace" said:
...and, right here be have a debate going on!!

It is not the same spirit as a Discussion as someone said earlier in the thread.
One is edifying and one is not..."In my opinion.."

Just wait, ....because all the false ones that Satan sends will be very "edifying"-- so will the Anti-Christ, btw, he will be full of promise and spiritual charisma.

marks · May 22, 2019

tzcho2 said:
he will be full of promise and spiritual charisma.

that let's me out!

tzcho2 · May 22, 2019

marks said:
that let's me out!

Me too!!

CoreIssue · May 22, 2019

Episkopos said:
I know that in the Greek..woman in that context means "wife". It is the same thing in French. So Paul prefers for the wives to let their husbands speak. That's why he says...let your husbands explain it at home.

Was this the normal meetings he was referring to?

Could any woman operate in her gift?

Or were these special meetings of the leadership?

Wrong again.

By your demand that means other woman could talk or that only married could go to church?

This time on the definition of woman.

The KJV New Testament Greek Lexicon
Strong's Number: 1135 Browse Lexicon
Original Word Word Origin
gunhv probably from the base of (1096)
Transliterated Word TDNT Entry
Gune 1:776,134
Phonetic Spelling Parts of Speech
goo-nay' Noun Feminine
Definition

a woman of any age, whether a virgin, or married, or a widow
a wife
1. of a betrothed woman

ScottA · May 22, 2019

illini1959 said:
Could I ask what you take "women" to mean, and if not actual women, then what and how do you come by that definition?

Thank you ~

Certainly, since it is most relative to the OP in that much debate is performed by those who should learn to be silent and listen to the Head.

One lays the foundation and another builds upon it. It was Jesus who claimed that His words were spirit while proving also not to be an actual lamb, but the Son of God, and explaining the parable nature of declaring the dark sayings of old. He also established the mystery of the marriage, Him being the Bride Groom, and His church being the bride. It was Paul then who elaborated the mystery, wherein all who are able to discern the scriptures spiritually as he instructed, should know that all who are saved are female in their relationship with Christ, their Husband. So then, when Paul pressed on leaving behind the elementary principles of Christ in greeting the gift of the Holy Spirit and outlining the construction of the church for this final age, he spoke to the unruly nature of men and their wife's of the time in parable, revealing the mystery spoken of regarding the bride who was to be under the headship of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Which word, if meant only for unruly women, would have been done in private, according to the established rules of conduct. Thus, only those with ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches have such knowledge, while the slumbering masses join Israel in their blindness until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.

None of which is my "opinion", but is easily verifiable in the scriptures, as the scriptures.

tzcho2 · May 22, 2019

ScottA said:
What...no quote of me doing so? Bet you can't.

ScottA said:
Because we are of no account unless we are in Christ. In which case, the account is Christ's, not ours.

ScottA said:
Because it is not I who speak, but the Spirit of the Father who speaks.

ScottA said:
You quote the scriptures wherein it says "If anyone speaks in a tongue, let there be two or at the most three, each in turn, and let one interpret." But when "one interprets", you reject the Spirit.

Do you not know this is blasphemy according to the same word?

ScottA said:
No...that is not biblical.

What is biblical...is that when one sent speaks, it is not them who speak, but the Spirit of the Father that speaks in them. Matthew 10:20

ScottA said:
That is correct. Just like Jesus and the prophets did.

ScottA said:
Where have you been for 2000 years? These are the times promised where the Spirit of the Father speaks and the bride is to be silent in church.

You too need to read the Bible.

ScottA said:
That is why I said you need to read the Bible.

You quote the scriptures and demand the same of others as if it were the word and the test for our times, but it is not. Israel, whom died in their sins and have their salvation in Christ according to the scriptures, were told to keep the written word. But God has promised that those born again of the spirit of God, would no more turn to such, but would have it written on their hearts, that it would not be them who spoke, but the Spirit of the Father speaking in them, and thus women (spiritually the bride of Christ) should be silent in Church, leaving only the Head to speak.

But you, though you call yourself a Christian and a follower of Christ, have not followed at all, but have followed Israel in that type of blindness (until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled).

So...I say again: Read the Bible, and desist in your ignorant grumblings against those who have been sent according to the scriptures.

illini1959 · May 22, 2019

Episkopos said:
I know that in the Greek..woman in that context means "wife". It is the same thing in French. So Paul prefers for the wives to let their husbands speak. That's why he says...let your husbands explain it at home.

Was this the normal meetings he was referring to?

Could any woman operate in her gift?

Or were these special meetings of the leadership?

I just wondered why the other poster indicated (it seemed to me) that 'woman' meant something else.

The church in Corinth had many issues - lots of divisions, pride and misuse of the spiritual gifts, etc. Paul's first letter to them was to address these (and other) issues and to retain order in the church.

Aside from the women he refers to in that verse, he also instructed others on when they could speak -

1 Cor 14:27-28 If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God.

vs 29-30 Let two or three prophets speak, and let the others pass judgment. But if a revelation is made to another who is seated, the first one must keep silent.

All of this was just to maintain an orderly assembly.

Women were allowed to pray and prophesy - 1 Cor 11:5 But every woman who has her head uncovered while praying or prophesying disgraces her head,...

Thank you!

stunnedbygrace · May 22, 2019

illini1959 said:
Could I ask what you take "women" to mean, and if not actual women, then what and how do you come by that definition?

Thank you ~

I have seen the same thing Scott has seen on this, So I am willing to take a stab at it.

You remember when Jesus said, the words I give you, they are spirit?

And do you also remember reading that the word is Spirit because God is Spirit?

And do you remember when the apostle said do not refuse food to the beast treading out the grain? He tied it to men who teach being worthy of their pay (to eat.) And then he said, you don't suppose God was really talking about oxen there do you? So the apostle was giving understanding of the spirit of the word.

Now, is what Paul said scripture? If it is, then it is spirit also. So...you don't suppose he was talking of husbands and wives, do you? How so if he also said there (for us) is no more male or female?

ScottA · May 22, 2019

tzcho2 said:
That is how you think the Holy Spirit speaks, is it? where does He refer to people as "cockroaches"

Ezekiel 8

ScottA · May 22, 2019

marks said:
The Scriptures say to test those who claim to speak for God. So that's what we do.

Why are you afraid of the light?

Much love!

If you think I am afraid of the light, they you need to take heed that the light in you is not darkness.

Test away. But if you make accusations and claims not written here, setting traps for what has been presented in holiness, then it is you who are suspect and will be counted with the transgressors.

ScottA · May 22, 2019

tzcho2 said:
Post # 209

Great!

Thanks for publicly vindicating me while showing yourself to be guilty of false accusations. I didn't see any comments of repentance however. Might want to do that. God takes that kind of serious.

marks · May 22, 2019

ScottA said:
If you think I am afraid of the light, they you need to take heed that the light in you is not darkness.

You are the one who refuses to use plainness of speech. Is that what the apostles did? Actually Paul put a real premium on speaking plainly. You do not. That is indicative.

ScottA said:
Test away. But if you make accusations and claims not written here, setting traps for what has been presented in holiness, then it is you who are suspect and will be counted with the transgressors.

Well, you've assured me that you make no claim for speaking for God. I imagine I can leave it at that.

And, um, "presented in holiness", well, OK.

Much love!

CoreIssue · May 22, 2019

ScottA said:
Certainly, since it is most relative to the OP in that much debate is performed by those who should learn to be silent and listen to the Head.

One lays the foundation and another builds upon it. It was Jesus who claimed that His words were spirit while proving also not to be an actual lamb, but the Son of God, and explaining the parable nature of declaring the dark sayings of old. He also established the mystery of the marriage, Him being the Bride Groom, and His church being the bride. It was Paul then who elaborate the mystery, wherein all who are able to discern the scriptures spiritually as he instructed, should know that all who are saved are female in their relationship with Christ, their Husband. So then, when Paul pressed on leaving behind the elementary principles of Christ in greeting the gift of the Holy Spirit and outlining the construction of the church for this final age, he spoke to the unruly nature of men and their wife's of the time in parable, revealing the mystery spoken of regarding the bride who was to be under the headship of Christ by the Holy Spirit. Which word, if meant only for unruly women, would have been done in private, according to the established rules of conduct. Thus, only those with ears to hear what the Spirit says to the churches have such knowledge, while the slumbering masses join Israel in their blindness until the times of the gentiles are fulfilled.

None of which is my "opinion", but is easily verifiable in the scriptures, as the scriptures.

Reality is God created Eve as a helpmate for Adam. Nothing to do with an unruly nature. It simply is the roles God created for man and wife.

And you forget, born again are brothers of Christ, not females.

Yes, it is your opinion as is easily verified by the Scriptures. Those things that you never post as proof for your claims.

Nor is there any verse about joining Israel in their blindness.

The unsaved have their own blindness.Their blindness is not the same as the blindness of Israel.

CoreIssue · May 22, 2019

ScottA said:
Great!

Thanks for publicly vindicating me while showing yourself to be guilty of false accusations. I didn't see any comments of repentance however. Might want to do that. God takes that kind of serious.

No false accusation except by you.

CoreIssue · May 22, 2019

marks said:
You are the one who refuses to use plainness of speech. Is that what the apostles did? Actually Paul put a real premium on speaking plainly. You do not. That is indicative.

Well, you've assured me that you make no claim for speaking for God. I imagine I can leave it at that.

And, um, "presented in holiness", well, OK.

Much love!

The problem is you do believe you speak for God when you do not.

ScottA · May 22, 2019

marks said:
You are the one who refuses to use plainness of speech. Is that what the apostles did? Actually Paul put a real premium on speaking plainly. You do not. That is indicative.

I quote the scriptures, which are plain enough for God. Just sayin'.

Yet you seem to have a problem with me when I do. Pretty obvious who your real beef is with.

ScottA · May 22, 2019

CoreIssue said:
Reality is God created Eve as a helpmate for Adam. Nothing to do with an unruly nature. It simply is the roles God created for man and wife.

And you forget, born again are brothers of Christ, not females.

Yes, it is your opinion as is easily verified by the Scriptures. Those things that you never post as proof for your claims.

Nor is there any verse about joining Israel in their blindness.

The unsaved have their own blindness.Their blindness is not the same as the blindness of Israel.

Sooo much wrong here. So much error and misunderstanding. Thought I would just quote it.

What Do You Learn from Debate?

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