Explaining the Trinity

Jane_Doe22 said:

Newsflash: nobody here believes that.
If you would like to hear what I *actually* believe, I'd be happy to discuss that on another thread.

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Newsflash: Any Mormon on here believes that.

Did I say you *actually* believe it, or did it hit the target which is why we're hearing from the wounded in the process?

Yes, target was hit.

That's your beliefs being Mormon and all Mormons play the "that's not what I believe" card. Well known fact, and you never get around to telling the truth anyhow, you just dodge and play coy about it.

But I did want to make a point to expose you and defend my brother @Dave L from your false accusations at the same time.

Jane_Doe22 said:

Newsflash: nobody here believes that.

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Are you the spokesperson for everyone here, knowing what everyone believes, or is the above your ego showing, and thinking too highly of yourself?

Preacher4Truth said:

Newsflash: Any Mormon on here believes that.

Did I say you *actually* believe it, or did it hit the target which is why we're hearing from the wounded in the process?

Yes, target was hit.

That's your beliefs being Mormon and all Mormons play the "that's not what I believe" card. Well known fact, and you never get around to telling the truth anyhow, you just dodge and play coy about it.

But I did want to make a point to expose you and defend my brother @Dave L from your false accusations at the same time.

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Preacher4Truth said:

Are you the spokesperson for everyone here, knowing what everyone believes, or is the above your ego showing, and thinking too highly of yourself?

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@Preacher4Truth , if you're interested in getting facts straight, I would be thrilled to very directly clarify fact from myth about what members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints actually believe on another thread.

If that doesn't interest you, let us not derail this thread further.

What Jesus does a Trinitarian believe in? Is it the incarnated, 'lowered' himself, hypostatic-unionized, dual natured, man-god being and a personality of the Triune God, or is it the man and Son of the Father, called God Almighty? It cannot be both.

I will leave it as a rhetorical question for obvious reasons.

The Trinity doctrine espouses that God Almighty has only three different personalities. Not that God Almighty clearly has several major roles or other attributes, but three personas only. Why did they not make these, different personas of God too?

They say that the Father in scripture means one personality of God.

They say that the Holy Spirit means another personality of God.

They say that Jesus Christ is yet another personality of God.

And each of the three personas of God is all different. This is their belief and if they have to short-circuit scripture and force it to fit their hypothesis based on paganism, so be it.

So, when scripture mentions God, the Father as one of his major roles, the Trinitarian thinks only in terms of personality and not roles. And this role is the only personality suited for God Almighty. Do they consider the role of Creator another personality of God, the Almighty? Of course not, as that would not ‘fit’ their beautiful triad or triune God concept of three personalities.

So, when scripture mentions the Holy Spirit, as the invisible power or energy that composes God, extended into and influences mankind in this world, the Trinitarian thinks it is yet another personality of God.

So, when scripture mentions Jesus, our Lord and Savior, the created Son of God, the Trinitarian thinks it is yet another personality of God.

Now with Jesus forced to be God (YHWH), the Trinitarians were forced to invent an appealing process for this transformation, to make it appear plausible. They borrowed a pagan mythological concept of gods becoming men. They invented a new term whereby God Almighty became a human being. They say God became incarnated. As a note, some non-Trinitarian believe that Jesus transformed himself into a human (incarnated) because he preexisted as a created being of God from the beginning of time.

The Trinitarian then said, God ‘lowered’ himself, somehow. No scripture again supports such a claim. Without this added extra-scripture, it would be impossible to say God became a man.

Then because of their blatant and damming lie, another equally grotesque lie had to be introduced to stop inquiring minds thinking that God cannot be a human being if he called himself the Son of Man, many times. They invented the concept of hypostasis union, borrowed again from mythological tales. It means basically that Jesus at least on earth, had to have two natures, one human and one divine; in equal amounts. This then is the ‘thing’ called the Trinity doctrine.

A typical claim or boast of Trinitarians is that a child can see the Trinity in Jesus’ Baptismal scene as recorded in scripture. Really?!

The scene reveals the Father in heaven with his angels, pleased with his Son. After Jesus is baptized the Holy Spirit provides more power to Jesus. So, a Trinitarian says that the personality of the Father and ‘the’ Holy Spirit is present. And there is also the personality of Jesus; the incarnated, dual natured, lowering himself, God. All three personalities compose the Triune God – three personalities in one God.

If a child understood scripture and this baptismal scene of Jesus, without the programming of a Trinitarian, they would see the scriptural picture. Clearly from scripture without any added twists and turns, God Almighty, as the Father of Jesus speaks of his pleasure with his Son. And his Son receives more of his Father’s spirit or power after his baptism, as he is anointed Messiah.

This scene revealed one God Almighty in his role as Father, who is pleased to send more of his Spirit to Jesus, his created Son. That makes a total of one persona (in the role here of Father) with one divine nature, of God Almighty; one major attribute (his divine Spirit), and one personality with one nature, of the man Jesus (the Messiah), the Son of God, and also human the Son of Man.

Blessings,

APAK

If one reads books such as R B Kuiper's God Centred Evangelism, or James R. White's The Forgotten Trinity, one can see that there is quote after quote of Scripture backing - many from the writings of John - for the glorious truth of God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit, One God in Three Persons.

justbyfaith said:

"I" for the Holy Spirit (John 14:17-18).

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Hello @justbyfaith,

Here is the passage with adjacent context:

16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17 [that is] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, [but] you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you [will] see Me; because I live, you will live also.
(John 14:16-19)

JESUS: The "I" in verse 16 and twice in verse 18 and once in v19 are all referring to Jesus. The two "Me" references in v19 are Jesus.

FATHER: The "Father" and first "He" in v16 refers to the Father.

HOLY SPIRIT: The second "He" in v16 refers to the Helper that is the Spirit of truth that is the Holy Spirit. Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as "the Spirit of truth", "whom", "Him" thrice, and "He" in v17.

Now, while considering that "I will not leave you as orphans" in John 14:18, the Lord Jesus also said:

When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, [that is] the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
(John 15:26)

Now, while consider that "I will come to you" in John 14:18, the Lord Jesus also said:

30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
(Matthew 24:30-31)

The "I" is for Jesus.

May the Lord of Peace make this peaceful for you,
Kermos

Kermos said:

Hello @justbyfaith,

Here is the passage with adjacent context:

16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17 [that is] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, [but] you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you [will] see Me; because I live, you will live also.
(John 14:16-19)

JESUS: The "I" in verse 16 and twice in verse 18 and once in v19 are all referring to Jesus. The two "Me" references in v19 are Jesus.

FATHER: The "Father" and first "He" in v16 refers to the Father.

HOLY SPIRIT: The second "He" in v16 refers to the Helper that is the Spirit of truth that is the Holy Spirit. Jesus refers to the Holy Spirit as "the Spirit of truth", "whom", "Him" thrice, and "He" in v17.

Now, while considering that "I will not leave you as orphans" in John 14:18, the Lord Jesus also said:

When the Helper comes, whom I will send to you from the Father, [that is] the Spirit of truth who proceeds from the Father, He will testify about Me,
(John 15:26)

Now, while consider that "I will come to you" in John 14:18, the Lord Jesus also said:

30 "And then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the SON OF MAN COMING ON THE CLOUDS OF THE SKY with power and great glory.
31 "And He will send forth His angels with A GREAT TRUMPET and THEY WILL GATHER TOGETHER His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
(Matthew 24:30-31)

The "I" is for Jesus.

May the Lord of Peace make this peaceful for you,
Kermos

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Greeting, not meaning to get into your conversation. but what you posted is the second coming of the Lord Jesus, first in "Manifestation", Spirit, the Comforter, and his second "apperance" in flesh, yet to come.

his "Manifestation" was on Pentecost, in the Gifts. yes he is the Spirit of TRUTH, for he clearly said, "I AM the TRUTH". as Spirit he is the Spirit of Truth.

his second "Apperance" is yet to come, as you stated in Matthews 24, and in Revelation 1:7. yes the Lord Jesus second "apperance" in flesh, but glorified flesh without blood.

PICJAG.

101G said:

Greeting, not meaning to get into your conversation. but what you posted is the second coming of the Lord Jesus, first in "Manifestation", Spirit, the Comforter, and his second "apperance" in flesh, yet to come.

his "Manifestation" was on Pentecost, in the Gifts. yes he is the Spirit of TRUTH, for he clearly said, "I AM the TRUTH". as Spirit he is the Spirit of Truth.

his second "Apperance" is yet to come, as you stated in Matthews 24, and in Revelation 1:7. yes the Lord Jesus second "apperance" in flesh, but glorified flesh without blood.

...snip

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Hello 101G,

The Apostle John records that the Lord Jesus said "I will come to you" (John 14:18). There is no limitation which correlates to my perceived meaning of your post, for example, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:15) at time John the unborn baby leaped in Elizabeth's womb upon the pregnant with baby Jesus Mary's greeting (Luke 1:41). My perceived meaning of your post is that you try to make Jesus more than One God with the Holy Spirit, I persceive that you are trying to make Jesus the same person (or some such) as the Holy Spirit; moreover, such a same person concept fails in the account of the unborn babies of Lord Jesus and John the Baptist which places the Holy Spirit filled John prior to Pentecost, and there are other passages in scripture that demonstrate the failing of the same person concept.

You see, Lord Jesus said "I" for Himself, and Lord Jesus said "He" for the Holy Spirit. By God's grace, Lord Jesus distinguishes Himself and the Holy Spirit. That which is written in "One God Three Persons Post (in this thread) and "One God Three Persons - Adjunct Post (in this trhead)" remains true and valid.

In the baptism of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
Kermos

Hi @Kermos,

I consider that there is a continuation of thought going from verse 16 to verse 17, so that when Jesus says in verse 16, "He will be in you," and in verse 17, "I will come to you" He is speaking of the same event.

This is how we are to perceive these verses when we take them in their immediate context.

justbyfaith said:

Hi Kermos,

I consider that there is a continuation of thought going from verse 16 to verse 17, so that when Jesus says in verse 16, "He will be in you," and in verse 17, "I will come to you" He is speaking of the same event.

This is how we are to perceive these verses when we take them in their immediate context.

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Hello @justbyfaith,

I hope you are not arguing against cross-referencing the revealed Word of God as per John 14:16-19 and John 15:26 and Matthew 24:30-31 - each and every one of which are words spoken by Lord Jesus! While John 15:26 and Matthew 24:30-31 provide clarity, the John 14:16-19 passage sufficiently reveals Truth.

There is a certain continuation within the John 14:16-19 passage, and I outlined contextually accurate continuation of Lord Jesus' words in "The 'I' in John 14:18 Refers to Lord Jesus Post (in this thread)". Grammar matters. By God's grace, I vehemently dispute the arbitrary shifting of pronoun application used by Lord Jesus because such assertion breaks the context and language structure leading to wrong meaning and worse, deception.

In your post, quoted above, you brought up He (Holy Spirit) "will be in you" (John 14:17) to which you compared "I will come to you" (John 17:18). First, look at the verbs, in John 14:17 "will be" versus in John 14:18 "will come". Second, look at the prepositions, in John 14:17 "in" versus in John 14:18 "to". Third, look at the Subject, in John 14:17 "He" versus in John 14:18 "I". (1) The prepositions differ. (2) The verbs differ. (3) Most importantly, the Subjects differ!

Jesus, Who is God Eternal, referred to two persons. In the "Mary, Pregnant with Lord Jesus, greets Elizabeth, Pregnant with Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist who leaped, Post (in this thread)", you will find Jesus in Mary and the Holy Spirit in John the Baptist as well as Elizabeth - at the same time.

By God's grace, the three eternal persons being One God are revealed within the John 14:16-19 passage. This is clearly Lord Jesus' intention. This is clearly the Holy Spirit's revelation.

Immersed in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,
Kermos

Hi @Kermos,

The way I see it, the I in verse 17 and the he in verse 16 are speaking of the same Person.

I suggest to you reading the following thread:

Trinity vs. Tritheism: Understanding the Trinity.

Kermos said:

Hello 101G,

The Apostle John records that the Lord Jesus said "I will come to you" (John 14:18). There is no limitation which correlates to my perceived meaning of your post, for example, John the Baptist was filled with the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:15) at time John the unborn baby leaped in Elizabeth's womb upon the pregnant with baby Jesus Mary's greeting (Luke 1:41). My perceived meaning of your post is that you try to make Jesus more than One God with the Holy Spirit, I persceive that you are trying to make Jesus the same person (or some such) as the Holy Spirit; moreover, such a same person concept fails in the account of the unborn babies of Lord Jesus and John the Baptist which places the Holy Spirit filled John prior to Pentecost, and there are other passages in scripture that demonstrate the failing of the same person concept.

You see, Lord Jesus said "I" for Himself, and Lord Jesus said "He" for the Holy Spirit. By God's grace, Lord Jesus distinguishes Himself and the Holy Spirit. That which is written in "One God Three Persons Post (in this thread) and "One God Three Persons - Adjunct Post (in this trhead)" remains true and valid.

In the baptism of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit,
Kermos

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first thanks for the reply. second, the LORD Jesus who is the Holy Spirit is one God, only diversified of his ownself. and as Spirit without a body he can dwell in anyone. just as the Lord Jesus with the G2758 κενόω kenoo (ke-no-ō') as with John the baptist. or John's father who was filled with the Spirit, see Luke 1:67 . but on Pentecost, after sin was removed, he was poured out on all flesh per Joel 2:28 & 29. which was in direct respond to Judas question in John 14:21 "He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.

now, Judas question, the very next verse. John 14:22 "Judas saith unto him, not Iscariot, Lord, how is it that thou wilt manifest thyself unto us, and not unto the world?". Good question, his answer, John 14:23 "Jesus answered and said unto him, If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him".
that "MANIFESTATION" came on the day of Pentecost, in the spiritual gifts.

the we here in John 14:23 is the Father, and the Son, but who came? the comforter. one Person came and it's one [person who dwells in us]. did not the Lord Jesus say, "If a man love me, he will keep my words: and my Father will love him, and we will come unto him, and make our abode with him", so who came? who was sent then? if all three came and dwells in us. if one have the HOLY SPIRIT? is it he, are they that dwells in us??. remember the Lord Jesus said that "we will come unto him, and make our abode with him". so how many person is dwelling in you? answer, ONE PERSON. remember the Lord Jesus said the Father will send the comforter in my name. (John 14:26), but the Lord Jesus said, he will send the Comforter, (John 15:26). if the Lord Jesus sent the Comforter, and the Father sent the Comforter, how is the Father and Son are dwelling in us if they sent the comforter, the Holy Spirit.

now, is the Comforter the title holder of Son and the Father, we say yes.

the Lord Jesus plainly said, John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you". and again in Matthew 28:18 "And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
Matthew 28:19 "Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Matthew 28:20 "Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, [even] unto the end of the world. Amen". here clearly the Lord Jesus said that he is with you even unto the END of the WORLD.

well the WORLD has not yet ended. which means the Lord Jesus is here with us. how? in Spirit. but is not the Holy Spirit here now. let's check the record. Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

here you have A. the Spirit of God, B. the Spirit of Christ. both are in caps. please don't say it's two "Spirit(s)".

PICJAG

101G said:

first thanks for the reply. second, the LORD Jesus who is the Holy Spirit is one God, only diversified of his ownself. and as Spirit without a body he can dwell in anyone.
...snip...
well the WORLD has not yet ended. which means the Lord Jesus is here with us. how? in Spirit. but is not the Holy Spirit here now. let's check the record. Romans 8:9 "But ye are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if so be that the Spirit of God dwell in you. Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ, he is none of his".

here you have A. the Spirit of God, B. the Spirit of Christ. both are in caps. please don't say it's two "Spirit(s)".
...snip

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Hello 101G,

You appear to have missed my point which I may have been remiss is stating clearly, so let me state it plainly. The Holy Spirit was present in John the Baptist in Elizabeth's womb at the same time that Jesus Christ was present in Mary's womb. The Holy Spirit present in John with Elizabeth as well as Jesus present in Mary. 1 + 1 = 2 - that is 2 persons out of the three persons of God.

In John 14:23, Lord Jesus clearly states "We" and "Our" (both in the plural) in "If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him." The Holy Spirit is the He that Jesus tells us indwells us believers, and the same Holy Spirit is One God with the Father and the Son; therefore, because we have the Holy Spirit, we have the Father and we have the Son - three distinct persons in One Eternal God.

Do not be deceived, the Holy Spirit is the Spirit of God - Jesus Christ is God - The Spirit of God is the Spirit of Christ.

One God is three persons, the Father, the Son, and the Spirit.

To God be the glory,
Kermos

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:37-39).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, Mark 12:29), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6, Deuteronomy 6:4, James 2:19), the Father (Romans 15:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv)), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9), and the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4).

There are not nine members in the Trinity. These are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

Kermos said:

The Holy Spirit present in John with Elizabeth as well as Jesus present in Mary. 1 + 1 = 2 - that is 2 persons out of the three persons of God.

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first thanks for your reply. second, no we did not miss your point. the Holy Spirit is in all of us, every single believer, so your 1+1=2 person want work. the Holy Spirit is ONE PERSON who is omnipresent in the world. hence the reason why he Jesus went to the Father, because "greater" is he {omnipresent{ in Spirit than he in flesh & blood.

Kermos said:

In John 14:23, Lord Jesus clearly states "We" and "Our" (both in the plural)

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which is the same one person in Genesis 1:26 who said "us" and "our". this is the diversification of God, the Holy Spirit, in flesh.

Kermos said:

therefore, because we have the Holy Spirit, we have the Father and we have the Son - three distinct persons in One Eternal God.

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again error on your part. ONE ETERNAL "SPIRIT" not Persons. question, "how many person indwell you right now" ONE or three.

Look no need to argue. we suggest you study some more

this is my challenge if you think that it's three person of God. tell us if the person in John 1:3 is the same person in Isaiah 44:24 that "created all things", yes or no?

looking to hear your answer.

PICJAG.

justbyfaith said:

There is one Spirit (Ephesians 4:4), the Father (John 4:23-24), the Son (Ephesians 3:17, Colossians 1:27, 1 John 5:12), and the Holy Ghost (John 7:37-39).

There is one Lord (Ephesians 4:5, Mark 12:29), the Father (Matthew 11:25, Luke 10:21), the Son (1 Corinthians 8:6, 1 Corinthians 12:3), and the Holy Ghost (2 Corinthians 3:17).

There is one God (Ephesians 4:6, Deuteronomy 6:4, James 2:19), the Father (Romans 15:6, 1 Corinthians 8:6, James 3:9 (kjv)), the Son (Hebrews 1:8-9), and the Holy Ghost (Acts of the Apostles 5:3-4).

There are not nine members in the Trinity. These are the same Spirit, the same Lord, and the same God (1 Corinthians 12:4-6).

Tit 2:1, But speak thou the things which become sound doctrine:

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Hello @justbyfaith,

I read your entire post including every single one of your citations.

For the moment, I'm going to narrow focus on a single citation of yours which is 2 Corinthians 3:17 (in a couple of paragraphs, returning to include your other citations again), but I am going to expand further into this passage to obtain appropriate context:

15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart;
16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away.
17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.
(2 Corinthians 3:15-17)

The Apostle Paul wrote "whenever Moses is read" in 2 Corinthians 3:15, and that has a direct impact upon 2 Corinthians 3:17 where Paul wrote "the Lord is the Spirit" in that Lord Christ is the Spirit of the Law; in other words, Lord Jesus is the substance and the Law of Moses is the shadow. Do not be deceived, this passage is not saying that Lord Jesus is the Holy Spirit as one person.

The balance of your citations are proof texts against the Father being the Son or the Son being this Holy Spirit or the Holy Spirit being the Father; therefore, your interpretation is dangerously flawed.

Your error is that you try to squeeze the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit into one spirit (or maybe it's one person) instead of One God.

One of the egregious symptoms of your error is that you try to manipulate the plural pronoun into the singular pronoun for the very word of Lord Jesus Christ recorded by the Apostle John (John 14:16-19).

The Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father; however the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, these three, are One God. This it is proved out in this post and these three spiritually true and scripturally valid posts:

"One God Three Persons Post (in this thread)"

"The 'I' in John 14:18 Refers to Lord Jesus Post (in this thread)"

"Mary, Pregnant with Lord Jesus, greets Elizabeth, Pregnant with Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist who leaped, Post (in this thread)"

Immersed in the One True God that is three distinct personifications of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit,
Kermos

101G said:

first thanks for your reply. second, no we did not miss your point. the Holy Spirit is in all of us, every single believer, so your 1+1=2 person want work. the Holy Spirit is ONE PERSON who is omnipresent in the world. hence the reason why he Jesus went to the Father, because "greater" is he {omnipresent{ in Spirit than he in flesh & blood.

which is the same one person in Genesis 1:26 who said "us" and "our". this is the diversification of God, the Holy Spirit, in flesh.

again error on your part. ONE ETERNAL "SPIRIT" not Persons. question, "how many person indwell you right now" ONE or three.

Look no need to argue. we suggest you study some more

this is my challenge if you think that it's three person of God. tell us if the person in John 1:3 is the same person in Isaiah 44:24 that "created all things", yes or no?

looking to hear your answer.

...snip

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Hello @101G,

Your primary error is that you try to squeeze the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit into one person (or maybe one spirit) instead of One God.

One of the egregious symptoms of your error is that you try to manipulate the plural pronoun into the singular pronoun in various passages of the Bible, including the very words of Lord Jesus Christ as recorded by the Apostle John (John 14:16-19, see also "Lord Jesus Describing Three Distinct Persons That Are One True God Post (in this thread)".

A second error symptom lies in your deconstructionism applied against the scriptures resulting in your denial of the God that made you, this One True God revealed in the Word of God as three persons. Your challenge/question about the person referred to in John 1:3 and Isaiah 44:24 is an example of your deconstruction of scripture in that you seek not the Author's intent but you seek your intent; in other words, you are reading into scripture. By the way, I do not intend to answer your question according to your rules, so, with that written, here is the answer to your question: John 1:3 refers to the same God as refered to in Isaiah 44:24 with respect to "created all things".

Yet another error symptom of yours is that you come up with four persons instead of three persons according to how I've collated your posts on the matter:

- 1 for the Father
- 1 for the Son
- 1 for the Spirit
- 1 for God

That is 1 + 1 + 1 +1 = 4 which is in error because the One True God is the three persons of the Father and the Son and the Spirit. The phraseology applied with the word "God" in scripture proves your 4 person interpretation to be false.

Another error condition of yours lies in your contradiction of the following statement: the Father is not the Son, and the Son is not the Holy Spirit, and the Holy Spirit is not the Father. The Truth is that he Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit are One God, and this it is proved out by Lord Jesus Christ in the "One God Three Persons Post (in this thread)".

The illogically unscriptural fallacy of your conclusion for your denial against 1 + 1 = 2 persons explanation is clearly evident since Jesus, in pregnant Mary, was separately identified in scripture as present at the same time that the Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist, in pregnant Elizabeth, was also identified in scripture as present at the same time ("Mary, Pregnant with Lord Jesus, greets Elizabeth, Pregnant with Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist who leaped, Post (in this thread)"). That is 1 + 1 = 2 persons out of the 3 persons of 1 God expressed in scripture, so according to your denial that places you in the place that you do not believe scripture.

Since justbyfaith brought up some points worth addressing, I am including the "Refutation that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are one person (or maybe it's one spirit or maybe it's both that justbyfaith and 101G attempt to eisegete from scripture) Post (in this thread)".

Lord Jesus said "But because I speak the truth, you do not believe Me" (John 8:45), and He also spoke of three distinct persons being One God in John 14:16-19.

Immersed in the One True God that is three distinct personifications of the Father, the Son, and the Spirit,
Kermos

I have only briefly glanced through this thread, but from that brief perusal of the various posts have ascertained that the seeming majority of posters still believe that from the very brief and minimal amount of information offered in scripture, they can formularise the nature of the immeasurable Godhead and demand everyone else to acquiesce to their human devising.
The Bible does not offer an explanation of how the 3 expressions of deity relate to one another, nor of how they consist together. But that doesn't seem to stop us stupid backward species of rebellious upstarts from attempting to decipher the indecipherable.
When will we learn that what God wants us to learn through scripture is what He is like, an understanding of His character ... not what He is.

Quote "let us create". us means more than one.

God is love. A love that no man can achieve in the flesh. It is my opinion that there are 3 that love each other with a love that man can not understand. The children of God love Him more than this world.

Matt 6:24 -- You Cannot Serve God and Riches
24 "No one can serve two masters; for either he will hate the one and love the other, or else he will be loyal to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon.
NKJV

Mark 12:30
30 And you shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, with all your soul, with all your mind, and with all your strength.' This is the first commandment.
NKJV

Rom 14:14 --- The Law of Love
14 I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean.
NKJV

1 John 2:15-17 --- Do Not Love the World
15 Do not love the world or the things in the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.
16 For all that is in the world — the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life — is not of the Father but is of the world.
17 And the world is passing away, and the lust of it; but he who does the will of God abides forever.
NKJV

According to the gospel of grace given to Paul, the will of God is that a person believes in the work of His Son, Jesus the Christ on the cross where He, Jesus, paid for the sins of the whole world.

Since Almighty God provided sufficient information to ascertain some part of "the nature of the immeasurable Godhead", in particular, that the One God is three distinct persons in the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit as expressed by God in:

16 "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever;
17 [that is] the Spirit of truth, whom the world cannot receive, because it does not see Him or know Him, [but] you know Him because He abides with you and will be in you.
18 "I will not leave you as orphans; I will come to you.
19 "After a little while the world will no longer see Me, but you [will] see Me; because I live, you will live also.
(John 14:16-19)

The words of Jesus matter immeasurably, just as the King of Glory expressed:

If anyone loves Me, he will keep My word; and My Father will love him, and We will come to him and make Our abode with him. He who does not love Me does not keep My words
(John 14:23-24)

All authority has been given to Me in heaven and on earth. Go therefore and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit, teaching them to observe all that I commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, even to the end of the age.
(Matthew 28:18-20)

I am the resurrection and the life; he who believes in Me will live even if he dies, and everyone who lives and believes in Me will never die
(John 11:25-26)

According to Jesus the Lord, we believers do believe in Him, including Who He is, indluding His works. Lord Jesus did not exclude these matters. We Christians would be fruitless derelicts on the matter to avoid such an important matter, after all, Jesus the Messiah, the Son of God Who speaks that He is One God with the Father and the Holy Spirit (John 8:58), considered the matter sufficiently important to address it!

As a parting posts of relevance and citation:

"One God Three Persons Post (in this thread)"

"The 'I' in John 14:18 Refers to Lord Jesus Post (in this thread)"

"Mary, Pregnant with Lord Jesus, greets Elizabeth, Pregnant with Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist who leaped, Post (in this thread)"

"Come near to Me, listen to this: From the first I have not spoken in secret, From the time it took place, I was there. And now the Lord GOD has sent Me, and His Spirit."
(Isaiah 48:16)