Explaining the Trinity

101G said:

if he's one person, (which we agree), but please explain how he's "TRI?" if he 's already ONE Person. we read your posts in all the other topics that cover this subject, but there is no scriptural fact that God is a "TRI" UNE Spirit of persons.

please show supporting scripture of his "TRI" unity as PERSONS, and not in TITLES. let's take this one scripture at a time.

thanks in advance.

PICJAG.

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We can start with John 16:27-28 and John 15:26.

These scriptures say that Jesus came out from God and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

I believe that Jesus is the Father; but not in the sense of Him who inhabiteth eternity. Jesus is a distinct Person from that Omnipresent Spirit; while He is the same Spirit.

The NASB rendering of Isaiah 44:24 contains:

Thus says the LORD, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the LORD, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

A critical point in the NASB's "PRINCIPLES OF TRANSLATION" provided by the publisher indicates:

The Proper Name for God: To professing Christians, the name of God is most significant and understandably so, it is inconceivable to think of spiritual matters without a proper designation for the Supreme Deity. Thus the most common name for the Deity is God, a translation of the original Elohim. The normal word for Master is Lord, a rendering of Adonai. There is yet another name which is particularly assigned to God as His special or proper name, that is, the four letters YHWH. See Exodus 3 and Isaiah 42:8. This name has not been pronounced by the Jews because of reverence for the great sacredness of the divine name. Therefore, it has been consistently pronounced and translated LORD. The only exception to this translation of YHWH is when it occurs in immediate proximity to the word Lord, that is, Adonai. In that case it is regularly translated GOD in order to avoid confusion.

It is known that for many years YHWH has been transliterated as Yahweh, however no complete certainty attaches to this pronunciation.

End of quote from the NASB's "PRINCIPLES OF TRANSLATION".

When you see LORD in all capital letters, then you should know it is truly YHWH.

Adonai is the Hebrew word for the English words Lord and/or Master. Kyrio is the Greek word for the English words Lord and/or Master. Therefore, Adonai and Kyrio and Lord are equivalents.

Elohim is the Hebrew word for the English word God plurality within. El is the Hebrew word for the English word God singular within.

Taking the above into consideration, we find in the Old Testament:

YHWH Elohim = LORD God = Yahweh God

Adonai YHWH = Lord GOD = Lord Yahweh

Here is the rendering of Isaiah 44:24 with YHWH replacing LORD:

Thus says the YHWH, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the YHWH, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

Now here are some other relevant passages referencing God:

In the beginning Elohim created the heavens and the earth.
(Genesis 1:1 - the first mention of Elohim/God - the plurality form)

Then Elohim said, "Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness
(Genesis 1:26 - mention of Elohim/God - the plurality form along with "Us" and "Our" plural pronouns)

Now that the plurality within YHWH the El Elyon (the Hebrew for the Most High God in English) has been established, I will move on to consideration of the English word "Lord".

Lord YHWH is true. Lord Jesus is true. Lord YHWH refers to the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit being the plurality in One God. Lord Jesus refers the the Son of God (mentioned in the previous sentence as "the Son"). Referring to either context of reference to God does not negate the other as Lord and Master, that is Lord YHWH or Lord Jesus.

Further bringing the above together and as I conveyed previously both Isaiah 44:24 and "All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being" (John 1:3) refer to God for Jesus is God (John 1:1) and YHWH is God.

Now, I have this to write about @101G's foolish trap of a yes or no response to the challenge of "this is my challenge if you think that it's three person of God. tell us if the person in John 1:3 is the same person in Isaiah 44:24 that 'created all things', yes or no?" 101G mixes up the pronouns along with mixing up the Name of God, then 101G tries to impose a "yes or no" rule which is the source for my above assertion that 101G tried to set a foolish trap. I addressed 101G's challenge/question in post #117, yet 101G falsely claimed in post #125 that I could not answer. As I wrote previously, I do not intend to answer 101G's challenge/question according to 101G's rules. Here is some sound scripture:

Answer a fool as his folly [deserves], That he not be wise in his own eyes.
(Proverbs 26:5)

101G's CHALLENGE REFUTED: Isaiah 44:24 and John 1:3 refer to the same God.

Now, all of these posts remain true and valid scripturally:

"One God Three Persons Post (in this thread)"

"The 'I' in John 14:18 Refers to Lord Jesus Post (in this thread)"

"Mary, Pregnant with Lord Jesus, greets Elizabeth, Pregnant with Holy Spirit filled John the Baptist who leaped, Post (in this thread)"

"Refutation that the Father, the Son, and the Spirit are one person (or maybe it's one spirit or maybe it's both that justbyfaith and 101G attempt to eisegete from scripture) Post (in this thread)"

"The Immeasurable Value of Lord Jesus' Words according to the Son of God Post (in this thread)"

"Refuting License to Abuse Grace Post (in this thread)"

SovereignGrace said:

I take it the anti-Bible ppl are still denying the Trinity?

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#1, I'm not anti-Bible.

and =, #2, I'm not denying the Trinity.

While I am setting forth an understanding of it that is viewed by some to be contrary to sound doctrine.

It remains that what I am setting forth is based on a biblical understanding as the result of much thinking on the subject while reading the holy scriptures.

SovereignGrace said:

I take it the anti-Bible ppl are still denying the Trinity?

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God bless you SovereignGrace, it is a blessing to see your post, and to know there is a friend that understands who God is, Sovereign!!!

Kermos said:

God bless you SovereignGrace, it is a blessing to see your post, and to know there is a friend that understands who God is, Sovereign!!!

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Is God anything but sovereign? To say He isn’t sovereign robs Him of who He is.

justbyfaith said:

#1, I'm not anti-Bible.

and =, #2, I'm not denying the Trinity.

While I am setting forth an understanding of it that is viewed by some to be contrary to sound doctrine.

It remains that what I am setting forth is based on a biblical understanding as the result of much thinking on the subject while reading the holy scriptures.

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You keep saying the Father became the Son. That’s not Trinitarian thought at all.

justbyfaith said:

We can start with John 16:27-28 and John 15:26.

These scriptures say that Jesus came out from God and that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father.

I believe that Jesus is the Father; but not in the sense of Him who inhabiteth eternity. Jesus is a distinct Person from that Omnipresent Spirit; while He is the same Spirit.

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First thanks for the reply. second, John 16:27 & 28, "For the Father himself loveth you, because ye have loved me, and have believed that I came out from God.
John 16:28 "I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world: again, I leave the world, and go to the Father.

STOP, how can an co-equal person who is eternal come out from another person who suppose to be co-equal also, and is diffrent

where is there three persons here? only ONE. yes, Jesus is the FATHER, correct, but the question remains, what, or better yet "WHO" proceeded from the Father/Spirit. not another distinct person, here's why. the word "proceed" means to emanate. and if Jesus emanated from the Spirit/Father, meaning his ownself, and is separate and distinct from his ownself, then one have TWO Spirit. see person(s) don't eninate. listen to the definition Emanate, (of something abstract but perceptible) issue or spread out from (a source). see the Lord Jesus is the "OBJECTIVE" of the Spirit that you cannot see, or none-perceptible, or that which is the "Subjective", or source. for God is one Spirit, and if Jesus is a person of that Spirit then it's the same "PERSON" manifested. remember G243 allos states a "Numerical diffrence", or another which is the SAME "source". so by eninating from the source he is the IMAGE of the "SOURCE" that is perceptible ... meaning he is the "IMAGE" of the Source.

let us make it simple. if 101G took a picture, the image on the picture is not justbyfaith. do you see it now. the IMAGE refect, or manifest the SOURCE, in this case the Image of 101G is 101G..

so how is Jesus the Express Image of the Spirit that is the Source? answer, by "sharing" equally as Philippians 2:6 STATES, "Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God". well God has no EQUAL. Isaiah 40:25 "To whom then will ye liken me, or shall I be equal? saith the Holy One". God has no equal, notice "I" single PERSON. that also eliminated any Co-Equal error.

now, also you said, "Jesus is a distinct Person from that Omnipresent Spirit; while He is the same Spirit". you almost got it. not a distinct person, but the "SHARED" person of himself in flesh.

Now, your John 15:26 proves my point, listen, John 15:26 "But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, [even] the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me"

now we ask you, proceedeth here means to emanate, and eminate means abstract, which the Comforter is. but perceptible? NO.
you cannot see him. are you getting this? listen the Comforter proceedeth from the Father, right, but did not the Lord Jesus said that he proceedeth also from the Father. are you getting it now?. did you not hear what the Lord Jesus said?, John 14:16 "And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;(look up ANOTHER here).
John 14:17 "[Even] the Spirit of truth; whom the world cannot receive, because it seeth him not, neither knoweth him: but ye know him; for he dwelleth with you, and shall be in you.
John 14:18 "I will not leave you comfortless: I will come to you".

Jesus said "I", "I", "I", will come to you. here it's audience relevance, and he said that he was going to "Manifest" ... HIMSELF to them, so when did he "Manifested" himself.... anser on the day of Pentecost. bingo, only one person .... "Shared".

so no, there is not three persons in any of these verses, but one Spirit shared in flesh.

CoreIssue said:

Already answered.

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you answered nothing, because you don't know.

you offer no scriptural support, just saying "I'm not wrong" that don't mean a hill of beans if not backed up with scripture.

but you just want to talk, and be seen. but we'll leave you also to Revelation 22:11.

PICJAG.

SovereignGrace said:

You keep saying the Father became the Son. That’s not Trinitarian thought at all.

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It is biblical thought. I would say however, that more accurately, the Father took on an added nature of human flesh and that the Person that came into being was the Son of God.

It was not a 2nd God, and neither was it 1/3 of God, who became a Man. It was God.

101G said:

and if Jesus emanated from the Spirit/Father, meaning his ownself, and is separate and distinct from his ownself, then one have TWO Spirit.

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Still one Spirit; because the distinction (not separation) between Father and Son has to do with the fact that the Father is Omnipresent while the Son is confined to a body of human flesh (and a few other things); however these are essentially the same Spirit.

justbyfaith said:

It is biblical thought. I would say however, that more accurately, the Father took on an added nature of human flesh and that the Person that came into being was the Son of God.

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you're half correct, and here's why. the Spirit/the Father did take on another nature. but please explain how by taking on an added nature he the Father, as you say, "came into being is the Son of God". how can God come into BEING, when he is already is?
please explain.

justbyfaith said:

has to do with the fact that the Father is Omnipresent while the Son is confined to a body of human flesh (and a few other things); however these are essentially the same Spirit.

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but did you not say that it was the FATHER who took on that added NATURE, so it is the Father in that flesh yes or no?.

PICJAG.

think about whay you just said, justbyfaith. if it's the father in that flesh, then it's the same person in that fleh. is this not so?

PICJAG.

CoreIssue said:

God is three distinct spirits and personages.

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three distinct "spirits" please explain by scripture.

PICJAG.

SovereignGrace said:

You keep saying the Father became the Son. That’s not Trinitarian thought at all.

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He's another straight up heretic.

Preacher4Truth said:

He's another straight up heretic.

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Just like Paul the apostle.

Act 24:14, But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:

Also, you ain't prickly, now, are you?

Mat 7:15, Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
Mat 7:16, Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

101G said:

but did you not say that it was the FATHER who took on that added NATURE, so it is the Father in that flesh yes or no?.

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yes.

101G said:

you're half correct, and here's why. the Spirit/the Father did take on another nature. but please explain how by taking on an added nature he the Father, as you say, "came into being is the Son of God". how can God come into BEING, when he is already is?
please explain.

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There was a Person who came into being through the hypostatic union. The human aspect of Jesus didn't exist until the incarnation. The Person of the Son is both human and divine. The Son, as He exists in a human body, came into being when the Spirit of God became one with the egg in the womb of the virgin Mary. It is not that God came into being, but that His human aspect, which affects person and personality, came into being at the moment of incarnation.

101G said:

think about whay you just said, justbyfaith. if it's the father in that flesh, then it's the same person in that flesh. is this not so?

PICJAG.

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Yes, this is so.

CoreIssue said:

Elohim

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Error, God is "a", "a", "a" Spirit, and Spirit is capitalize. see John 4:24a

so no more from you. you have no clue as to who or what God is.

see ya.

PICJAG.