Does evil exist?

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Shornaal

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May 20, 2008
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(univac;59260)
Ok you don't belive in God and have no Questions ,so why are you still here?
You believe in God and have no answers, why are you here?Everytime I ask questions I either get biblical quotes having nothing to do with the question slapped in my face or you ignore me.An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays but not those who work on the sabbath, women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Also do I still have the right to claim the children of immigrants as slaves?Never got a straight answer.
 

univac

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May 29, 2008
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(Shornaal;59261)
You believe in God and have no answers, why are you here?Everytime I ask questions I either get biblical quotes having nothing to do with the question slapped in my face or you ignore me.An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays but not those who work on the sabbath, women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Also do I still have the right to claim the children of immigrants as slaves?Never got a straight answer.
Personally I don't Judge anyone, so I don't hate, for I am a sinner, I'm not a hypocrite, secondly I don't see flesh but Spirit,
 

logabe

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Aug 28, 2008
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Isa. 45:7 and Amos 3:6. Take a look @ these scriptures and let me know what you think.Logabe
 

Sasha

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Jul 27, 2008
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An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays We don't hate the person, we hate the sin, we hate the lifestyle. Don't put words in our mouths.but not those who work on the sabbath, Most people don't even realize the sabbath is Saturday, the catholics changed it so teh pagans would take part of their belief system.women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Paul said that women should not speak in church because he was in a muslin country and men ruled over women. Jesus broke the curse of the old testament "rules" as you put it. If we ignore you questions, it may simply be because we don't have the answer. You could do a study on these things and help us to understand them.
 

jeffhughes

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Jul 27, 2008
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(Alpha and Omega;59252)
Thats the point.
Oh, so you're saying that God gives us power, it's just that we can't use it? Well that's pretty useless. Then why is God a liar?Mind you, I understand that what you're trying to imply was that I was never a Christian. You're wrong, but thank you for your shallow, preconceived judgment. However, since you obviously, then, claim to be a true Christian, I would like to see some mountain-moving. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it," right? Jesus said you could move mountains, even with a tiny amount of faith. So a good way to demonstrate your belief in God would be to demonstrate your faith in his words. I'd like one of the Alps to come over to North America, please. After I'm done skiing, of course, you can put it back if you like.My question is: How do you reconcile this? If Jesus didn't actually say this, then the Bible is incorrect. If Jesus said it, but didn't mean it, then he's a liar. If Jesus said it and meant it, but it is untrue, then he is deluded and also not the Son of God. But if Jesus said it, and meant it, and it is true, then you should be able to move a mountain, just as he says. Since I'm assuming you can't, therefore, try choosing one of the other options.(Jordan;59253)
Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.Proverbs 3:6 - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.Proverbs 3:7 - Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil...........Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Yeah. Tried that. Tried to fear the Lord and all that jazz. I threw out my own understanding for a while. The only thing is that verses like these do not answer anything. I can't reconcile that God would tell us something that is untrue, and to throw my hands up and get rid of my own understanding on the matter, to believe that somehow it is true, even though it's a logical contradiction, is just silly. I would rather evaluate what I believe to see if it actually is true, rather than believing something to be true against all available evidence (and indeed, logic itself).(logabe;59267)
Isa. 45:7 and Amos 3:6. Take a look @ these scriptures and let me know what you think.Logabe
Looks like God is the author of evil. Not sure whether you're on the side of Christians or non-Christians, but either way, you've brought up a very good point. Scholars will tell you that in the Old Testament, God had more of a dualistic nature - he was responsible for both good and evil. As the concept of an afterlife came into play, however, it became necessary to separate these two concepts into two opposing beings - thus the advent of God vs. Satan. This is why in the Old Testament, God can be the author of evil, and Satan can be standing at God's side, but in the New Testament, Satan gets blamed for all the bad stuff.
 

Shornaal

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May 20, 2008
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(Sasha;59274)
An old question I asked was something like: Why do you hate and demostrate against gays We don't hate the person, we hate the sin, we hate the lifestyle. Don't put words in our mouths.but not those who work on the sabbath, Most people don't even realize the sabbath is Saturday, the catholics changed it so teh pagans would take part of their belief system.women who speak in church and all other rules in the old testament? Paul said that women should not speak in church because he was in a muslin country and men ruled over women. Jesus broke the curse of the old testament rules. If we ignore you questions, it may simply be because we don't have the answer. You could do a study on these things and help us to understand them.
Sorry, didn't mean to put words in your mouth by 'you' I meant christians a whole, a lot of homosexuals have been assaulted by christians, espewcially fathers who finds out their son/daughter is gay.As for Jesus abolishing old testament's rules then wouldn't homosexuality be ok now?
 

Sasha

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Jul 27, 2008
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(jeffhughes;59251)
I dare say that there are enough Christians all over this planet that, collectively, they should be able to end all suffering. Either Christians are incompetent, or else they do not have the power you say they do. Or they don't know they have the power and therefore don't use it.Have you ever done such a thing as to rebuke a storm and have it stop? Yes, several! Not that you would believe that unless you saw it with your own eyes. God has given me authority and I believe it. Therefore, God honors His word by responding to my faith in action.Have you gone up to someone with cancer or AIDS and said, "I rebuke you, disease", and have them healed? I highly doubt it.Your faith has to grow for cancer healing faith, start off with a spirit of asthma. Then take dominion over the body and command it to be healed, in the name of Jesus. Then Praise God for your healing, even if it has not manifested in the natural yet. It's on it's way, be patient. God responds to faith. Hold fast to your confession, of healing, and you will receive what was promised, your healing. It's one thing to say you have power. It's another thing to demonstrate it.Thank you for confirming my point. It's one thing to have it, which all christians that are baptized with the Holy Spirit do have the power of the Holy Spirit in them. And you're right, it's another thing to demonstrate it!! We must believe it in our hearts, and confess it with our mouths. And it will come to pass.Then DO IT. I have been.Why don't you start travelling the world and ending disease right now? Hmm? Come on, if you truly believe you have this power, and if you are trying to model Christ, then you should do the loving thing and start travelling the world, ridding it of suffering and disease. Book a plane ticket. Travel to Africa. Start rebuking the AIDS demons.God hasn't told me too. He's preparing me for when I come across people like, I'll know what to say. And Like I said our faith has to grow, my faith is still growing." . Or are you too afraid to find out that you might not have this alleged power?Fear is a demonic spirit. God did not give me a spirit of fear, but, of power, love, and a sound mind. This verse does not say anything about demons. It just talks about a storm, and then Jesus stops it. You keep agreeing with me, Jesus stopped the storm, Jesus said these things I do, you will do also.There is nothing in the Bible about demons causing earthquakes, storms, hurricanes, etc.Who is the prince of the air? Satan comes to kill, steal, and destroy, isn't that what earthquakes, storms, and hurricanes do? They do nothing but kill, steal and destroy. So, it's doesn't take to much time to see who creates natural disasters. Satan takes everything that God created and tries to twist it and pervert it. Well, you obviously do, so put your money where your mouth is. When I see the news reports, I'll take you more seriously.Well, maybe someday I will have a healing ministry, and God will send me to africa, and you can read about it in the paper.I have never witnessed a mountain being moved, other than through the very slow shifting of the tectonic plates. Do you not move mountains because you don't truly believe this verse is true, or because you do not have this power? I would like a mountain to be placed by my house, if you are able. I've always wanted to say I had a mountain view. Unfortunately, when I was a Christian, I was never able to tap into this supposed power. Perhaps you can help me out?
Jesus was giving that example to show you that NOTHING shall be impossible for you. However, you use faith where it is NEEDED, not to show signs and wonders. Tempt not the Lord your God. If a mountain were to be cast into the sea, it would cause the sea level to rise and more people would die. So, we follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is no reason to tell a mountain to be cast into the sea. But, if God wants to use that to rid the world of evil men, then I guess he can. OH, wait God said He would never flood the world again. And He gave us the rainbow as a reminder of that promise. And look what the devil has tried to make to rainbow represent today? I told you the devil tries to take what beauty God has created and pervert it.
 

Sasha

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Jul 27, 2008
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(Shornaal;59276)
Sorry, didn't mean to put words in your mouth by 'you' I meant christians a whole, a lot of homosexuals have been assaulted by christians, espewcially fathers who finds out their son/daughter is gay.As for Jesus abolishing old testament's rules then wouldn't homosexuality be ok now?
I've got to go for now, I'll talk more later.God Bless.
 

jeffhughes

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Jul 27, 2008
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[quote name='Sasha;59277]Or they don't know they have the power and therefore don't use it.[/QUOTE]Convenient.[QUOTE=Sasha;59277]Yes' date=' several! Not that you would believe that unless you saw it with your own eyes. God has given me authority and I believe it. Therefore, God honors His word by responding to my faith in action.[/QUOTE']Could you give me some examples, so I know how much of a grain of salt I should take your words with? I am not opposed to believing what people say without seeing it myself, but I have difficulties believing someone who is convinced that everything bad is the result of invisible demons...just sounds too much like gremlins to me.[quote name='Sasha;59277]Your faith has to grow for cancer healing faith' date=' start off with a spirit of asthma. Then take dominion over the body and command it to be healed, in the name of Jesus. Then Praise God for your healing, even if it has not manifested in the natural yet. It's on it's way, be patient. God responds to faith. Hold fast to your confession, of healing, and you will receive what was promised, your healing.[/QUOTE']A few things to say to this:1. Asthma often gets better with age. I chose diseases like AIDS for a reason - there is no known cure for it. It's diseases like this that remove ambiguity - if you can heal a person with AIDS, then I will have little recourse than to rethink what I believe about this world.2. The bit about "your faith has to grow for cancer healing faith" is a cop-out. Jesus said that with faith the size of a mustard seed (in other words, very small), you could move mountains. It's difficult to see how moving six thousand tons of rock (or however heavy said mountain is, I don't really know) would be easier than removing a one-pound tumor. 3. Saying "it's on its way" is also a cop-out, and it completely shrouds the entire thing in ambiguity. Consider the following: I have a cold. I pray to God to heal me of my cold. Nothing happens, and I still have a cold. But a week or two later, it magically gets better. Do I praise God that he has healed me, or do I chalk it up to the fact that, well, that's what happens when you get colds? By saying, "If God doesn't do it right away, he'll do it soon," you make it impossible to tell whether this is the result of God, natural remission, or whatever drugs/medication you may be taking at the time. Or, of course, placebo effect, since often expectations can have provably profound effects on our bodies. "Praising God" for your upcoming healing may very be the actual process that heals you. Then again, praising Zeus would do the same thing in that case.[quote name='Sasha;59277]Thank you for confirming my point. It's one thing to have it' date=' which all christians that are baptized with the Holy Spirit do have the power of the Holy Spirit in them. And you're right, it's another thing to demonstrate it!! We must believe it in our hearts, and confess it with our mouths. And it will come to pass.[/QUOTE']Then how do you explain the fact that there are Christians who whole-heartedly believe the same thing that you do, and yet they don't have these powers? For a time, I believed as you do. I believed that Jesus meant it when he said I could move mountains (metaphorically speaking, of course, in order to rationalize it to myself). There are many pastors as well as lay-Christians who believe exactly as you do, and attempt to demonstrate it. And yet, their power is negligible, at best.[quote name='Sasha;59277]I have been.[/QUOTE]Please provide some examples.[QUOTE=Sasha;59277]God hasn't told me too. He's preparing me for when I come across people like' date=' I'll know what to say. And Like I said our faith has to grow, my faith is still growing."[/QUOTE']Convenient. I hope that God gives you the words to say to me, so that you may be able to refute my obviously-false arguments. I'm still waiting on that, though...[quote name='Sasha;59277]Fear is a demonic spirit. God did not give me a spirit of fear' date=' but, of power, love, and a sound mind.[/QUOTE']I'm afraid of demons. That alone was almost enough to keep me in Christianity. So if fear is from demonic powers, then why would they be working to keep me in Christianity?[quote name='Sasha;59277]You keep agreeing with me' date=' Jesus stopped the storm, Jesus said these things I do, you will do also.[/QUOTE']I get that part. But it doesn't say that the storm was caused by a demon, which is what I was trying to get at.[quote name='Sasha;59277]Who is the princess of the air? Satan comes to kill' date=' steal, and destroy, isn't that what earthquakes, storms, and hurricanes do? They do nothing but kill, steal and destroy. So, it's doesn't take to much time to see who creates natural disasters. Satan takes everything that God created and tries to twist it and pervert it.[/QUOTE']So wait. Don't floods, and fire and brimstone kill, steal, and destroy as well? So does that mean that God is one and the same as Satan? God has admittedly caused plagues, natural disasters, and genocide in the Bible. Whether it was justified or not, these things killed, stole, and destroyed. And since you're saying that these things are the result of Satan, then therefore you are saying that God is Satan. And that, if I remember correctly, is the unforgiveable sin (roughly speaking...attributing the works of God to Satan). Hmm. Or else it's just a contradiction.[quote name='Sasha;59277]Well' date=' maybe someday I will have a healing ministry, and God will send me to africa, and you can read about it in the paper.[/QUOTE']I look forward to the day. Really, not being sarcastic here. I don't care where you get your power - if you can heal people and help their lives, then I commend you. [quote name='Sasha;59277]Jesus was giving that example to show you that NOTHING shall be impossible for you. However' date=' you use faith where it is NEEDED, not to show signs and wonders. Tempt not the Lord your God.[/QUOTE']I anticipated that sort of response, which is why I moved the discussion to diseases and natural disasters as well. These are two places where faith and power like this are certainly needed. The mountain thing is mostly just to show that it's a ridiculous concept in general.[quote name='Sasha;59277]If a mountain were to be cast into the sea' date=' it would cause the sea level to rise and more people would die.[/QUOTE']Not likely. I guess if you mean "sea" as in like a lake or something, then yes, but even the largest mountain is chump change compared to the oceans. If an entire mountain was thrown in there, then I doubt the sea levels would rise more than an inch, if that. But that's beside the point.[quote name='Sasha;59277]So' date=' we follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit. There is no reason to tell a mountain to be cast into the sea. But, if God wants to use that to rid the world of evil men, then I guess he can. OH, wait God said He would never flood the world again. And He gave us the rainbow as a reminder of that promise. And look what the devil has tried to make to rainbow represent today? I told you the devil tries to take what beauty God has created and pervert it.[/QUOTE']Nobody's talking about a global flood. One mountain would certainly not submerge the entire world. I mean, there have been plenty of local floods since Noah's day, so God clearly only meant a global flood with his promise. But at any rate, the question here is why God - or other Christians - do not stop these local floods, if they truly have the power to do so. This is the original question that I asked, and it still hasn't been answered...
 

Jordan

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Apr 6, 2007
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(Shornaal;59259)
(Jordan;59244)
I am a guy... And your belief is wrong. It contradicts God's Words. Along with your statement in below quote.
Your belief is wrong, it contradicts reason and my words.If God has a problem with it he can come see me himself.Also since you guys don't believe in hell I have nothing to fear from not following him, I'd rather die the second death than live forever.My words and your words vanish every single second, but God's Words lives every single second and can't die. (Isaiah 40:8, Matthew 24:35, Mark 13:31, Luke 21:33)And by the way, the second death is that Hell. So you would wish that you don't want to be remembered by anybody?(jeffhughes;59275)
(Jordan;59253)
Proverbs 3:5 - Trust in the LORD with all thine heart; and lean not unto thine own understanding.Proverbs 3:6 - In all thy ways acknowledge him, and he shall direct thy paths.Proverbs 3:7 - Be not wise in thine own eyes: fear the LORD, and depart from evil...........Proverbs 1:7 - The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise wisdom and instruction.
Yeah. Tried that. Tried to fear the Lord and all that jazz. I threw out my own understanding for a while. The only thing is that verses like these do not answer anything. I can't reconcile that God would tell us something that is untrue, and to throw my hands up and get rid of my own understanding on the matter, to believe that somehow it is true, even though it's a logical contradiction, is just silly. I would rather evaluate what I believe to see if it actually is true, rather than believing something to be true against all available evidence (and indeed, logic itself).Human reasoning is pointless and unhealthy...having a godly reasoning is so healthy and right. However because you tried that, apparently you don't understand God's Words at all, most like a wordly version of God's Words (ie men lies and tradition)
 

Sasha

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Jul 27, 2008
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1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."God Bless you.
 

jeffhughes

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Jul 27, 2008
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(Sasha;59307)
1 Corinthians 2:14 "But the natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God; for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised."God Bless you.
Of course. You resort to this. I simply asked for examples of you showing this power you say you have. You know, since I used to believe exactly what you do - I believed I had this same power. But then I realized that beliefs should be based on evidence, not wishful thinking.If you do decide to tell me about examples of you rebuking demons or what have you, I'm still all ears. I am not one to turn away from good, solid proof.
 

univac

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May 29, 2008
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Jeff I will give you all proof you need, Christ died for you and came back to life and ascended to heaven, thats all the proof you will get and need.God bless
 

Alpha and Omega

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May 11, 2008
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(jeffhughes;59275)
Oh, so you're saying that God gives us power, it's just that we can't use it? Well that's pretty useless. Then why is God a liar?Mind you, I understand that what you're trying to imply was that I was never a Christian. You're wrong, but thank you for your shallow, preconceived judgment. However, since you obviously, then, claim to be a true Christian, I would like to see some mountain-moving. "God said it, I believe it, that settles it," right? Jesus said you could move mountains, even with a tiny amount of faith. So a good way to demonstrate your belief in God would be to demonstrate your faith in his words. I'd like one of the Alps to come over to North America, please. After I'm done skiing, of course, you can put it back if you like.
Why so much hate in your post? No, I was not implying that at all. You never had that power, neither do I. I believe but its still not good enough to move mountains. In that passage Jesus was talking to his disciples. Not even they had that much faith. (jeffhughes;59275)
My question is: How do you reconcile this? If Jesus didn't actually say this, then the Bible is incorrect. If Jesus said it, but didn't mean it, then he's a liar. If Jesus said it and meant it, but it is untrue, then he is deluded and also not the Son of God. But if Jesus said it, and meant it, and it is true, then you should be able to move a mountain, just as he says. Since I'm assuming you can't, therefore, try choosing one of the other options.
Take into consideration of how small a mustard seed is and you will see how little faith one needs. Obviously my faith or anyone else's is inadequate to move mountains. What I do not understand is how ME moving mountains or not makes Jesus a liar, not the son of God, or deluded? My faith just like the men who followed him is inadequate to do such things. This does not make Jesus a liar because of someones lack of faith.
 

Alpha and Omega

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May 11, 2008
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(logabe;59267)
Isa. 45:7 and Amos 3:6. Take a look @ these scriptures and let me know what you think.Logabe
What are you trying to say logabe?
 

Lookin4wardtoHeaven

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Jul 17, 2007
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Univac, Nice story...makes you think . Here are some scriptures I thought I would share that I found.~~~~~James 1:12-18 (King James Version) 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creaturesGod :blessyou:
 

univac

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(Lookin'4wardtoHeaven;59327)
Univac, Nice story...makes you think . Here are some scriptures I thought I would share that I found.~~~~~James 1:12-18 (King James Version) 12 Blessed is the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. 13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: 14 But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed. 15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death. 16 Do not err, my beloved brethren. 17 Every good gift and every perfect gift is from above, and cometh down from the Father of lights, with whom is no variableness, neither shadow of turning. 18 Of his own will begat he us with the word of truth, that we should be a kind of firstfruits of his creaturesGod :blessyou:
Thankyou for the Daily breadGod bless you
 

logabe

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Aug 28, 2008
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EVIL-anything that is bad or adverse that happens in MY earthly point of veiw. It includes all calamities that may occur, such as earthquakes, whirlwinds, famines, and pestilence. It also includes all judgment for moral sins. We are told in the Bible that God brings evils upon an individual, a city, a nation, or even the whole world in accordance with the Divine Law. God is the only one capable of turning evil into good. Man has tried for thousands of years and have failed. God uses evil to cause a person to repent and if he doesn't he will become bitter and blame God in his own ignorants. Joseph and Job were a good example of how God uses evil to mature a person in the Kingdom. Logabe
 

Sasha

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Jul 27, 2008
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(jeffhughes;59309)
Of course. You resort to this. I simply asked for examples of you showing this power you say you have. You know, since I used to believe exactly what you do - I believed I had this same power. But then I realized that beliefs should be based on evidence, not wishful thinking.If you do decide to tell me about examples of you rebuking demons or what have you, I'm still all ears. I am not one to turn away from good, solid proof.
I will when I have a moment to do so, I've got more in my life then just CB. I will also give you scripture to confirm what I'm telling you about.Just for the record, it is not MY power, it is the same power Jesus had. Jesus himself said you will be endowed with power.