Is Hell worse for Some?

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illini1959

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I am not ashamed to share my faith, I am ashamed of my fellow Christians. The bible says several times we should love one another but most people who claim to be Christians are doctrine cops who have not learned correct doctrines. The rest think that commandment means I have a responsibility to act loved.

We are to love, and I don't mean any of my posts to come across in an ugly way. But we have to remember the 'whole council of God' - there's more to being a Christian than love.

We're not to condone works of darkness or different doctrine.

"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them." Eph 5:11

"As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine" 1 Timothy 1:3

You made several declarative statements to me earlier - which is fine - your opinion, but if you think I'm (or anyone else) wrong or "have not learned correct doctrine" why do you object to sharing what you believe?
 

Wafer

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The fire spoken of is everlasting fire; and it is spoken of it that it shall never be quenched.

The bible mentions several fires. Which one are you talking about? I guess Mark 9:

Mark 9:43 - And G2532 if G1437 thy G4675 hand G5495 offend G4624thee, G4571 cut G609 G846 off: G609 it is G2076 better G2570 for thee G4671 to enter G1525 into G1519 life G2222 maimed, G2948 than G2228having G2192 two G1417 hands G5495 to go G565 into G1519 hell, G1067into G1519 the fire G4442 that never shall be quenched: G762

Word #G1067 is gehenna, which is not hell. It is the Valley of Hinnom, the Jerusalem city dump.
 

Wafer

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We are to love, and I don't mean any of my posts to come across in an ugly way. But we have to remember the 'whole council of God' - there's more to being a Christian than love.

We're not to condone works of darkness or different doctrine.

"Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them." Eph 5:11

"As I urged you when I was going to Macedonia, remain at Ephesus so that you may charge certain persons not to teach any different doctrine" 1 Timothy 1:3

You made several declarative statements to me earlier - which is fine - your opinion, but if you think I'm (or anyone else) wrong or "have not learned correct doctrine" why do you object to sharing what you believe?

I believe the bible is the word of God. A great many people who claim to be Christians do not know anything of what the bible says and/or don't believe what they are shown if it contradicts what they already believe. They want to kill people who preach the rightly divided word of God. Yes, the man who taught me the bible was a target of murderers, and his followers were sometimes targeted by "deprogrammers" hired by other denominations.

If you want to work the word together, that's nice. But asking me about "my faith" is a non-starter.
 

justbyfaith

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The bible mentions several fires. Which one are you talking about? I guess Mark 9:

Mark 9:43 - And G2532 if G1437 thy G4675 hand G5495 offend G4624thee, G4571 cut G609 G846 off: G609 it is G2076 better G2570 for thee G4671 to enter G1525 into G1519 life G2222 maimed, G2948 than G2228having G2192 two G1417 hands G5495 to go G565 into G1519 hell, G1067into G1519 the fire G4442 that never shall be quenched: G762

Word #G1067 is gehenna, which is not hell. It is the Valley of Hinnom, the Jerusalem city dump.
Gehenna, hell, and whatever else you want to call it is representative of the fate of the wicked in eternal punishment.

The whole concept of gehenna makes my point quite nicely in fact. It was a heap of trash that was always burning; the fire never went out.

This was an illustration that Jesus gave to show what eternity without Him would be like.

That it is the eternal destination of some is clear from the scripture that you quoted, above.
 

Wafer

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Gehenna, hell, and whatever else you want to call it is representative of the fate of the wicked in eternal punishment.

The whole concept of gehenna makes my point quite nicely in fact. It was a heap of trash that was always burning; the fire never went out.

This was an illustration that Jesus gave to show what eternity without Him would be like.

That it is the eternal destination of some is clear from the scripture that you quoted, above.

So are you saying that some people go to the Jerusalem city dump? Is that what you are saying? That is hard to accept. After all, the bible speaks of reality so all interpretations must agree with reality. In reality, people do not go to the Jerusalem city dump. They go to hell, a hole, a grave. The soul dies, the body rots, and the spirit returns to God who gave it.

Everything you think you know about hell came from one book by an Italian guy named Dante Allighieri, based on Roman Catholic traditions. No resemblance to biblical truth.
 
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justbyfaith

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Everything you think you know about hell came from one book by an Italian guy named Dante
I never read the man's book.

Everything I know about hell came from the Bible: and it is clear to me from reading that, that hell is a place of eternal torment.
 

Wafer

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I never read the man's book.

Everything I know about hell came from the Bible: and it is clear to me from reading that, that hell is a place of eternal torment.

You're such a sweetheart!
 

illini1959

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I believe the bible is the word of God. A great many people who claim to be Christians do not know anything of what the bible says and/or don't believe what they are shown if it contradicts what they already believe. They want to kill people who preach the rightly divided word of God. Yes, the man who taught me the bible was a target of murderers, and his followers were sometimes targeted by "deprogrammers" hired by other denominations.

If you want to work the word together, that's nice. But asking me about "my faith" is a non-starter.

That's the very reason it's good to know with whom one is debating. How do I know you're not one of those who 'claim to be Christian"? Me, I accepted Christ as my Savior almost 50 years ago, age 10. I, too, believe the bible is the word of God and that's the only thing I follow - no denominations. I attend a baptist church, but have also attended presbyterian and disciples of Christ. As long as they preach the word rightly divided we're good.

It's ok if you don't want to share, but at least you have a better idea of where I'm coming from.

Thanks ~
 

David kilmer

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Is hell worse for some?
If so, is it based upon the number of sins committed or the type of sin committed?
For example, if someone committed adultery all their lives vs someone who committed adultery once. Would one's punishment be worse then?
No because that person could have been too tempted to do so or directed to commit adultery. Some people misconceive adultery if they take it to mean sex or private practices but being clean in this area is good too. Others don't care. But it may matter if you actually reach hell or not as others have sins as well. Misconceptions can be pretty hit or miss. Or flexible...
 
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David kilmer

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It's good to be clean enough in the area of sex but it's normal to be tempted.
 

David kilmer

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Hell worse?
Perhaps in the sense, some souls are in Hell LONGER than others.

However the Torments Suffered in Hell is Separation from God and AND His Pleasant creations which Applies the SAME to All souls in Hell.

Glory to God,
Taken
What's separation from God? God is the Father God. HE created LIFE. He's GOD. HE created the starting point of creation, heaven. He literally created all or some of the universe or much. why should people go to hell for worshipping their creator? They don't if they want to. I'm not going to hell. Sometimes you have to fight and trolls..
 
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David kilmer

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I would say to you that the story of the rich man and Lazarus in the gospel of Luke is no parable.
Well when Satan comes along after professing Adventist beliefs and belief in God. That's time and the Earth has plenty of that. It's a good creation and smoking is bad. So is too much killing and sending people to hell... I had to go to Satan. I got scared. But my old self got opened up and changed. Things changed but can ANYONE say this is security? Isn't there security in God?
 
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David kilmer

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You should often times read the message as the other person and not as you. It helps with the mind.
 

David kilmer

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No matter how severe the punishment in degrees for those who end up in hell, I think that the worst thing about it is that those who go there will first be judged by our Lord Jesus Christ; and thus they will stand before Him and feel His wonderful presence.

Being cast away from the Lord's presence will be the worst thing about hell for some people: the contrast will be equivalent to very great pain.
Why do people go to hell? I thought you shouldn't cast stones!
 

David kilmer

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Well when Satan comes along after professing Adventist beliefs and belief in God. That's time and the Earth has plenty of that. It's a good creation and smoking is bad. So is too much killing and sending people to hell... I had to go to Satan. I got scared. But my old self got opened up and changed. Things changed but can ANYONE say this is security? Isn't there security in God?
Let me clarify! When I said that's time I meant professing belief in God but the Earth isn't only about God. They're about themselves too.
 

Harvest 1874

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I am the one saying the Lord Jesus is the Truth and only speaks the truth;
And you are the one saying what the Lord Jesus said is NOT TRUE....

No, I did not say the Lord was not true, I said YOU were not true, that YOU were the one who was in error. By your saying that the Lord Jesus is the Truth and only speaks the truth and then turning around and ascribing to our Lord Satan’s lie (viz. “Thou shall surely not die”, Gen 3:4) YOU are in essence accusing him of teaching the same thing, and in so doing YOU dishonor him.

And you are the one saying "I fell for deception"?
I doubt I am alone in noticing, you are the one in danger of being the recipient of a strong delusion.
It's pretty lame for you to accuse me of WHAT you do.

As I stated before it is most apparent that YOU have ALREADY fallen for this particular delusion as you have conceded to Satan’s lie. Those who are deceived generally have little idea that they have been deceived, and honestly believe what they hold is true despite all the evidences to the contrary. How soon they have forgotten who exactly it is they are dealing with, our Adversary is not referred to as the Master Deceiver for nothing he is very proficient in making error to appear as truth and at the same time causing the truth to appear as error.

Don't be afraid to stand for what you believe and share with the Forum; Highlight the parts of Jesus' teaching OF HIS DOCTRINE, "YOU" claim are NOT Factual Truths.

I have no fear in stating my beliefs. You do understand there are blog posts on this site, right? I do most of my posting there as I believe this particular format allows for a more comprehensive and in-depth explanation of the subject. I do this for two reasons, one because I have been accused of being to verbose in my comments and two for the sake of those who are truly hungering and thirsting for understanding, for whom a quick short off the cuff comment or answer is not sufficient. With allowances being made for those who have trouble with their eyes and can’t read long post I tend to restrict my comments on the discussion forum and stick mostly to posting on the blog.

If you had taken the time to check out my blog posts, specifically the index you would have noted that I have pretty much covered most of my beliefs on several key doctrines, I have nothing to hide.

I will address your last statement in my next post.
 

Harvest 1874

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Highlight the parts of Jesus' teaching OF HIS DOCTRINE, "YOU" claim are NOT Factual Truths.

Now here you make the assertion that we don’t believe this parable to be a doctrine (teaching) of Christ. No one’s claiming that this parable is not a doctrine of Christ. He’s the one presenting the parable so obviously it’s his doctrine. However your insistence that it is to be taken as a “factual” or literal statement of events is what’s in dispute here.

If it is literal at all, the whole thing is literal, and if it is symbolic at all, the whole thing is symbolic. Therefore we say without any question, this is a parable, because to take it literally would be to involve ourselves in statements of absurdity.

“The Scriptures were written and arranged in such a way by the Lord, through the inspired writers that they could not be understood excepting by those who would come into harmony with Him by faith and obedience. The Lord is pleased to enlighten His children by the operation of the holy spirit through His Divine purposes. It is related of our Lord Jesus that in all of His teachings He addressed the multitudes in parables and dark sayings that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, saying:

I will open my mouth in parables; I will utter things kept secret from the foundation of the world.” (Matt 13:34, 35) Only afterwards did he explain them to His disciples.

The parable of "The Rich man and Lazarus" is a remarkable prophecy of conditions relating to the Jews and the Gentiles and, we believe, could not have been stated in any other way without disclosing the realities which evidently the Lord intended were to remain disguised or concealed from the world and the worldly church (the professing church, orthodoxy), and whose real significance would be made known only to His devoted followers (those who have been enlightened by his spirit).”

To you (the spirit begotten) it has been given to know the mystery of the kingdom of God; but to those who are outside (as typified both by those outside the courtyard condition, those without faith, the worldly as well as those outside the holy condition, those believers not fully consecrated, not in covenant relationship with the Lord, and thus not begotten of his spirit, to these), all things come in parables (mysteries, dark sayings i.e. confusing statements), so that ‘seeing they may see and not perceive, and hearing they may hear and not understand…” (Mark 4:11, 12)

This is precisely why you have felled to properly understand this parable, “eyes they have, but they see not; ears but hear not” (Psa 115:5, 6) Nevertheless, should you yet in humility lay aside your pride in your own understandings and that of other men and come to the Lord in meekness and humility perhaps he may yet enlighten you.

As stated we have already fully presented our view on this parable in our blog post entitled “The Rich man and Lazarus”, but for now it is apparent that having already given yourself over to the false idea that this is a literal presentation rather than a metaphoric presentation (a parable) you show no interest in viewing the material. But then it is even as our Lord said it would be, for the time shall come (has come) when they will not stand for sound doctrine but having itching ears will be turned away from the truth to fables (lies, deceptions, errors). And it is for this cause (i.e. “because they did not receive the love of the truth”, when it was made known to them) that God allows them to be given over to the delusion of their own choosing, that they may be condemned (denounced) for not believing the truth, but having preference for error for falsehoods.

Nevertheless for the sake of those who are still yet unsure as to whether or not this is a parable we will examine the texts to determine for ourselves if what is stated should be taken factually, i.e. literally as you suggest or metaphorically (symbolic or figuratively) as we suggest.

Since this will require some time for a proper explanation and due to its length we will be posting it on our blog and will entitled it “The Rich man and the Beggar”, so as not to get it confused with our other post on the subject.
 
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