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Pearl

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I believe that there is and has only ever been one true Church, which is made up only of those who are Born Again believers from whatever church background, or none, worldwide, past present and future. Those who through the revelation of the Holy Spirit have seen Jesus for who he is, recognised what he did, turned from their sin and accepted him into their lives as Lord and Saviour. Anybody who hasn’t taken these steps towards him and made that commitment is not, in my view, part of the Church. And in my experience many church-goers and even clergy fall outside this criterion.

And already in God’s eyes we are spotless; having had our sin washed away in the blood of the sacrificial Lamb we are free from it. We are not though, yet perfect – far from it some might say – and won’t be while we are in our mortal bodies, but we are without sin in God’s eyes. If we were not we wouldn’t be called a Holy Priesthood; those who have been made holy as he is holy and can come into His holy presence and stand before him face to face.

It is this Church which will be presented to the Father as the Bride.

Within the denominations there are many tares among the wheat and goats among the sheep, and where they are in the majority, I believe God’s word tells us not to be yoked with unbelievers. I know there is an argument which says stay and lead by example, but I have found that such died-in-the-wool ‘tares’ have absolutely no desire to change and most will be quite derogatory about those in their midst who confess to be Born Again and Spirit filled.

Many clergy are afraid to preach the truth in case they offend life-long church members who then may leave, causing dwindling membership to drop even further – I’ve seen it happen. These stiff-necked people are often the driving force of the church (small c) as they refuse to step down from positions of authority on PCC committees and the like, which can result in the stultifying of the church.

Those of us who do belong to the One True Church should be showing love and a lack of prejudice towards one another. We who carry the divine DNA and are brothers and sisters in Christ, children of the Living God need to be seen to be kind and loving to each other as “By their love will you know them”. We have so much in common, and our Father tells us to encourage one another, so let us do just that.
 

Wafer

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Why do we keep getting this "true" stuff? "True" church, "true" Christians, "true" believers, ... How exactly does the "true" church, Christian or believer differ from the just plain church, Christian or believer?

Look up "no true Scotsman fallacy" and consider not using this expression any more. No true Scotsman - Wikipedia
 

Wafer

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Simply because there is a lot of false stuff floating around. So learn to separate the wheat from the chaff.

I am not aware of "false" Christians. A person either is or is not. A church is a group of people called out for a specific purpose. There is a story in Acts where a mob is called a church because they were called out to beat the apostles. So there is no "true" church or "false" church, only one or another church. Likewise for believers. A person either believes or does not believe. No "true", no "false".
 

Enoch111

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I am not aware of "false" Christians. A person either is or is not.
Not according to Scripture and not within Christendom. There are many who believe they are Christians but are not.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Mt 7:21-23)
 
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MetalMike

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I am not aware of "false" Christians. A person either is or is not. A church is a group of people called out for a specific purpose. There is a story in Acts where a mob is called a church because they were called out to beat the apostles. So there is no "true" church or "false" church, only one or another church. Likewise for believers. A person either believes or does not believe. No "true", no "false".

Jesus is aware of the existence of "false" Christians. For example,

Matthew 7:21-23 (ESV) - “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’"

 

MetalMike

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Not according to Scripture and not within Christendom. There are many who believe they are Christians but are not.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven. Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. (Mt 7:21-23)

Holy moly, we were on the same scriptural wavelength!
 
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Wafer

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Matthew 7:21-23 does not apply to Christians. It was spoken by Jesus, a Jew, and he was addressing other Jews about Jewish concerns.
 
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MetalMike

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Matthew 7:21-23 does not apply to Christians. It was spoken by Jesus, a Jew, and he was addressing other Jews about Jewish concerns.

Everything Jesus talks about in the Gospels are directed towards the Jewish people. Christians weren't called Christians until after the crucifixion.

Acts 11:25-26 (ESV) - "So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians."

Since there were no "Christians" during Jesus' Earthly ministry, and Jesus, a Jew, was talking to the Jewish people (including his disciples) that would mean everything Jesus talked about would not apply to Christians, based upon what you wrote in your post.

Everything Jesus says in the Gospels absolutely 100% applies to Christians.
 
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farouk

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Everything Jesus talks about in the Gospels are directed towards the Jewish people. Christians weren't called Christians until after the crucifixion.

Acts 11:25-26 (ESV) - "So Barnabas went to Tarsus to look for Saul, and when he had found him, he brought him to Antioch. For a whole year they met with the church and taught a great many people. And in Antioch the disciples were first called Christians."

Since there were no "Christians" during Jesus' Earthly ministry, and Jesus, a Jew, was talking to the Jewish people (including his disciples) that would mean everything Jesus talked about would not apply to Christians, based upon what you wrote in your post.

Everything Jesus says in the Gospels absolutely 100% applies to Christians.
Matthew 24 for example also seems to speak of tribulation saints after the church has been raptured.
 

Wafer

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Everything Jesus says in the Gospels absolutely 100% applies to Christians.

You're such a sweetheart!

I'm going to charm school. So far they have taught me to say "You're such a sweetheart" instead of what I used to say when somebody spouted nonsense like that.
 

MetalMike

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You're such a sweetheart!

I'm going to charm school. So far they have taught me to say "You're such a sweetheart" instead of what I used to say when somebody spouted nonsense like that.

Well, since I, in your words "spouted nonsense like that", which of Jesus' words should apply to Christians and which words do not? Please enlighten us on this. I didn't think as Christians that we would pick and choose which of Jesus' words apply to us.
 
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farouk

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Well, since I, in your words "spouted nonsense like that", which of Jesus' words should apply to Christians and which words do not? Please enlighten us on this. I didn't think as Christians that we would pick and choose which of Jesus' words apply to us.
Maybe he was referring to your supposed nonsense, IDK...o_O
 

Pearl

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Why do we keep getting this "true" stuff? "True" church, "true" Christians, "true" believers, ... How exactly does the "true" church, Christian or believer differ from the just plain church, Christian or believer?
It's to differentiate between people who might call themselves Christians and think they are but aren't. It's to differentiate between those who simply go to church and those who are actually part of The Church. And it's to differentiate between those who believe the true and full gospel and those who preach, teach and believe a different gospel.
 

Pearl

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I am not aware of "false" Christians. A person either is or is not. A church is a group of people called out for a specific purpose. There is a story in Acts where a mob is called a church because they were called out to beat the apostles. So there is no "true" church or "false" church, only one or another church. Likewise for believers. A person either believes or does not believe. No "true", no "false".
Wafer, for the first 35 years of my life I thought I was a Christian because I had been Christened, went to Sunday school and church and was confirmed and later married in church. But when I was 35 I discovered that all that time I had not been a 'true' Christian or belonged to the 'true' Church because I hadn't known Jesus as my Saviour. I then repented of my sin, renounced evil and turned to Christ and became born again and a 'true' Christian and a member of the 'true' Church. Believing in God is not enough for even the devil believes in God. Just going to church is not enough. Religion is not enough. There has to be that personal relationship with Jesus so that we can be forgiven and reconciled to God. Without that we are not Christians, i.e. followers of or disciples of Jesus. Without that relationship we are just talking the talk without walking the walk. And if we are sincerely trying to walk the walk without that relationship with Jesus we are going to find it very difficult as we will not have the help and guidance of the Holy Spirit.
 

Wafer

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Well, since I, in your words "spouted nonsense like that", which of Jesus' words should apply to Christians and which words do not? Please enlighten us on this. I didn't think as Christians that we would pick and choose which of Jesus' words apply to us.

For starters, Matthew 7:21-23 does not apply to Christians.

Romans 10:9-10 King James Version (KJV)
9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.
10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.

That's pretty plain. Then we have that famous "Lord's Prayer".

Luke 11:1-4 King James Version (KJV)
11 And it came to pass, that, as he was praying in a certain place, when he ceased, one of his disciples said unto him, Lord, teach us to pray, as John also taught his disciples.
2 And he said unto them, When ye pray, say, Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name. Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done, as in heaven, so in earth.
3 Give us day by day our daily bread.
4 And forgive us our sins; for we also forgive every one that is indebted to us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil.

Verse 4 does not apply to Christians because a Christian's forgiveness is not conditional upon forgiving anybody else.

John 4:22 King James Version (KJV)
22 Ye worship ye know not what: we know what we worship: for salvation is of the Jews.

Well, that obviously does not relate to Christians.

Ephesians 3:4-6 King James Version (KJV)
4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
5 Which in other ages was not made known unto the sons of men, as it is now revealed unto his holy apostles and prophets by the Spirit;
6 That the Gentiles should be fellowheirs, and of the same body, and partakers of his promise in Christ by the gospel:

Jesus did not know the mystery. BTW if Jesus had been God, John 4:22 would have been a lie. God can not lie.