Discernment vs. condemnation judgments

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Hope in God

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Was it an error on Paul's part when he wrote in 1 Cor. 2:15, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things," or, as it states in the KJV, "a spiritual man judges all things"? Does this give consent to Christians to make judgments regarding the practices, personalities, and beliefs of others?

I believe it is permissable in God's timing to make discerning judgments. Remember
Proverbs 29:11
A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

Regarding the making of judgments, let's examine the Scriptures. Were there judgments made by the NT writers concerning others who dwelt among them? Of course there were! Consider Paul's writing to Timothy regarding two men of his time.

2 Timothy 2:16-18
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

And Peter's writing:
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Remember Paul's emphatic insistence to the Corinthians that they get that man out of their midst who was sleeping with his step mother? "Do you want me to come there in love or with a rod? I'm coming with a rod!" he announced. "Get that man out of your fellowship!" (1 Cor. 4)

So often, we hear, mostly due to a lack of balanced teaching, the following statement, "Judge not that ye be not judged." (Matt. 7:1) Unbelievers like to use this verse without realizing its meaning.

To straighten these potential misconceptions, one must realize Scripture contains two types of judgment. One is a discerning judgment (seen in the first examples), where doctrinal error is pointed out, or it could be an observation regarding a man who is badly treating his wife and/or children, or a person's refusal to put a watch on his/her words.

When we see such a person, it may be the right time to attempt to restore that man/woman in the spirit of meekness. When we see in others that which is not healthy for them, we who are spiritual should attempt to show to them the way of God more perfectly. (Act. 18:26)

The other judgment is a condemning one. This is when a believer tells himself/herself and/or others that they are unworthy of love, that they don't measure up well enough for God to be their friend and Savior. What is said, essentially, is, "There's really no hope for you." This type of judgment is defined by Jesus when he said, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned."

It is not God's will for Christians to condemn. At the same time, nowhere are Christians told to forsake making discerning judgments.
 
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Episkopos

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Was it an error on Paul's part when he wrote in 1 Cor. 2:15, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things," or, as it states in the KJV, "a spiritual man judges all things"? Does this give consent to Christians to make judgments regarding the practices, personalities, and beliefs of others?

A spiritual person makes spiritual judgments. He/she can judge all things from that perspective....from that place.

Of course that seems arbitrary to people who have not entered into the spiritual life. Since everybody seems to be judging from themselves. But this very trait or antic of men is what stops the prophetic voice of the Spirit from speaking to them. So they neither hear the Spirit within themselves or they who do.

It is like a closed circle. Those who can discern spiritually can tell who is spiritual. But to most people it just seems like one more vicious circle. The wisdom of God hides in plain sight in this way. The un-spiritual think nothing of it that others may have an insight that they lack.
 
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amadeus

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"To every thing there is a season, and a time to every purpose under the heaven:" Ecc 3:1
"...a time to keep silence, and a time to speak;" Ecc 3:7


Who but God knows when it is time?
 

Helen

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Was it an error on Paul's part when he wrote in 1 Cor. 2:15, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things," or, as it states in the KJV, "a spiritual man judges all things"? Does this give consent to Christians to make judgments regarding the practices, personalities, and beliefs of others?

I believe it is permissable in God's timing to make discerning judgments. Remember
Proverbs 29:11
A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

Regarding the making of judgments, let's examine the Scriptures. Were there judgments made by the NT writers concerning others who dwelt among them? Of course there were! Consider Paul's writing to Timothy regarding two men of his time.

2 Timothy 2:16-18
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

And Peter's writing:
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.

Remember Paul's emphatic insistence to the Corinthians that they get that man out of their midst who was sleeping with his step mother? "Do you want me to come there in love or with a rod? I'm coming with a rod!" he announced. "Get that man out of your fellowship!" (1 Cor. 4)

So often, we hear, mostly due to a lack of balanced teaching, the following statement, "Judge not that ye be not judged." (Matt. 7:1) Unbelievers like to use this verse without realizing its meaning.

To straighten these potential misconceptions, one must realize Scripture contains two types of judgment. One is a discerning judgment (seen in the first examples), where doctrinal error is pointed out, or it could be an observation regarding a man who is badly treating his wife and/or children, or a person's refusal to put a watch on his/her words.

When we see such a person, it may be the right time to attempt to restore that man/woman in the spirit of meekness. When we see in others that which is not healthy for them, we who are spiritual should attempt to show to them the way of God more perfectly. (Act. 18:26)

The other judgment is a condemning one. This is when a believer tells himself/herself and/or others that they are unworthy of love, that they don't measure up well enough for God to be their friend and Savior. What is said, essentially, is, "There's really no hope for you." This type of judgment is defined by Jesus when he said, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned."

It is not God's will for Christians to condemn. At the same time, nowhere are Christians told to forsake making discerning judgments.


I have often wondered about the man cut off from the church in 1 Cor 4 ... If it is the very same 'him' mentioned in 2 Cor 2 .

My leaning is that it most probably IS.

:-
4 "For out of much affliction and anguish of heart I wrote unto you with many tears; not that ye should be grieved, but that ye might know the love which I have more abundantly unto you.
5 But if any have caused grief, he hath not grieved me, but in part: that I may not overcharge you all.
6 Sufficient to such a man is this punishment, which was inflicted of many.
7 So that contrariwise ye ought rather to forgive him, and comfort him, lest perhaps such a one should be swallowed up with overmuch sorrow.
8 Wherefore I beseech you that ye would confirm your love toward him.
9 For to this end also did I write, that I might know the proof of you, whether ye be obedient in all things.
10 To whom ye forgive any thing, I forgive also: for if I forgave any thing, to whom I forgave it, for your sakes forgave I it in the person of Christ;
11 Lest Satan should get an advantage of us: for we are not ignorant of his devices."


Mercy triumphs over judgement.
James 2:13
"For judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment. "
 

101G

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1 Corinthians 2:15 "But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

Romans 14:12 "So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
Romans 14:13 "Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in [his] brother's way".

PICJAG.
 

Hope in God

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Absolutely, Grace, they are the same man. In the first letter, Paul wrote to tell them to get that man out of their fellowship due to his sin. In his second letter to the Corinthians, he had to straighten out the church for being overly judgmental and refusing to believe that man had actually repented. So he wrote to them to explain what it is they should look for in a person who has truly asked for forgiveness, and to explain the difference between godly and worldly sorrow.

2 Cor. 7:8-11
For though I made you sorry with a letter, I do not repent, though I did repent: for I perceive that the same epistle hath made you sorry, though it were but for a season.

Now I rejoice, not that ye were made sorry, but that ye sorrowed to repentance: for ye were made sorry after a godly manner, that ye might receive damage by us in nothing.

For godly sorrow worketh repentance to salvation not to be repented of: but the sorrow of the world worketh death.

For behold this selfsame thing, that ye sorrowed after a godly sort, what carefulness it wrought in you, yea, what clearing of yourselves, yea, what indignation, yea, what fear, yea, what vehement desire, yea, what zeal, yea, what revenge! In all things ye have approved yourselves to be clear in this matter.

Those traits that prove repentance, known as inworkings, make a wonderful Bible study. Maybe I'll share on this in the future.
 

illini1959

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Was it an error on Paul's part when he wrote in 1 Cor. 2:15, "The spiritual man makes judgments about all things," or, as it states in the KJV, "a spiritual man judges all things"? Does this give consent to Christians to make judgments regarding the practices, personalities, and beliefs of others?

I believe it is permissable in God's timing to make discerning judgments. Remember
Proverbs 29:11
A fool uttereth all his mind: but a wise man keepeth it in till afterwards.

Regarding the making of judgments, let's examine the Scriptures. Were there judgments made by the NT writers concerning others who dwelt among them? Of course there were! Consider Paul's writing to Timothy regarding two men of his time.

2 Timothy 2:16-18
But shun profane and vain babblings: for they will increase unto more ungodliness. And their word will eat as doth a canker: of whom is Hymenaeus and Philetus; Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some.

And Peter's writing:
2 Peter 2:1
But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.[/QUOTE'

Remember Paul's emphatic insistence to the Corinthians that they get that man out of their midst who was sleeping with his step mother? "Do you want me to come there in love or with a rod? I'm coming with a rod!" he announced. "Get that man out of your fellowship!" (1 Cor. 4)

So often, we hear, mostly due to a lack of balanced teaching, the following statement, "Judge not that ye be not judged." (Matt. 7:1) Unbelievers like to use this verse without realizing its meaning.

To straighten these potential misconceptions, one must realize Scripture contains two types of judgment. One is a discerning judgment (seen in the first examples), where doctrinal error is pointed out, or it could be an observation regarding a man who is badly treating his wife and/or children, or a person's refusal to put a watch on his/her words.

When we see such a person, it may be the right time to attempt to restore that man/woman in the spirit of meekness. When we see in others that which is not healthy for them, we who are spiritual should attempt to show to them the way of God more perfectly. (Act. 18:26)

The other judgment is a condemning one. This is when a believer tells himself/herself and/or others that they are unworthy of love, that they don't measure up well enough for God to be their friend and Savior. What is said, essentially, is, "There's really no hope for you." This type of judgment is defined by Jesus when he said, "Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned."

It is not God's will for Christians to condemn. At the same time, nowhere are Christians told to forsake making discerning judgments.

Agreed. Further down in 1 Cor 5 vs 12-13 say: "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

It's not definitive whether or not the man in 1 Cor is the same as in 2 Cor, but either way the lesson is that the church in Corinth went from zero discipline - even being prideful - to overkill (if you will) in 2 Cor 2:6-7

"For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, 7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow."

and we are to forgive/restore those who are truly repentant.

Also agree that so many, even believers, take Matthew 7 out of context.

7:1 says, as you posted - "“Judge not, that you be not judged." But, taken in context, just a few verses down vs 5 says "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

I agree on the different types of judgement, too. We're called to point out works of darkness, false doctrine/teachers and not condone sin. Judging people's hearts is God's business.
 

Hope in God

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Agreed. Further down in 1 Cor 5 vs 12-13 say: "For what have I to do with judging outsiders? Is it not those inside the church whom you are to judge? 13 God judges those outside. “Purge the evil person from among you.”

It's not definitive whether or not the man in 1 Cor is the same as in 2 Cor, but either way the lesson is that the church in Corinth went from zero discipline - even being prideful - to overkill (if you will) in 2 Cor 2:6-7

"For such a one, this punishment by the majority is enough, 7 so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow."

and we are to forgive/restore those who are truly repentant.

Also agree that so many, even believers, take Matthew 7 out of context.

7:1 says, as you posted - "“Judge not, that you be not judged." But, taken in context, just a few verses down vs 5 says "You hypocrite, first take the log out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to take the speck out of your brother's eye."

I agree on the different types of judgement, too. We're called to point out works of darkness, false doctrine/teachers and not condone sin. Judging people's hearts is God's business.
______________________________
Very good reply, Illini1959. I enjoyed reading your remarks and will be mindful of them. After Jesus spoke those words to not judge, he went on to say
John 8:26
"I have many things to say and to judge of you:..." so He wasn't saying, in any way, that judgments are not to be made.

I believe the second letter to the Corinthians is very plain regarding who Paul was addressing concerning repentance -- both the church members and that man who he was pointing to in his first letter. He states "for I made you sorry in a letter," speaking of their reaction to the first correspondence, the one that blasted the members for not responding as they should have to the man's sin of adultery with his step mother. (1 Cor. 5:1) How amazing that the only ones in Corinth who were not shocked by this sin were the Christians in the church, and this is what bothered Paul the most. The Corinthian church was taking it lightly; they were even proud, boasting in their attitude toward this and how they were handling this problem.

I recall Paul writing, "What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?" (1 Cor. 4:21) He was coming with a rod!

They were initially condoning the sin, but later repented for their lack of judgment. Then, as so many believers do, they went overboard with their discipline against him, refusing to accept that the male adulterer had actually repented. "For such a one this punishment by the majority is enough; so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. (2 Corinthians 2:5-8

This situation makes an excellent starting point for a teaching on love, for we do not necessarily know how, what or whom to love, and must be taught.
 
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illini1959

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Very good reply, Illini1959. I enjoyed reading your remarks and will be mindful of them. After Jesus spoke those words to not judge, he went on to say
John 8:26
"I have many things to say and to judge of you:..." so He wasn't saying, in any way, that judgments are not to be made.

I believe the second letter to the Corinthians is very plain regarding who Paul was addressing concerning repentance -- both the church members and that man who he was pointing to in his first letter. He states "for I made you sorry in a letter," speaking of their reaction to the first correspondence, the one that blasted the members for not responding as they should have to the man's sin of adultery with his step mother. (1 Cor. 5:1) How amazing that the only ones in Corinth who were not shocked by this sin were the Christians in the church, and this is what bothered Paul the most. The Corinthian church was taking it lightly; they were even proud, boasting in their attitude toward this and how they were handling this problem.

I recall Paul writing, "What will ye? shall I come unto you with a rod, or in love, and in the spirit of meekness?" (1 Cor. 4:21) He was coming with a rod!

They were initially condoning the sin, but later repented for their lack of judgment. Then, as so many believers do, they went overboard with their discipline against him, refusing to accept that the male adulterer had actually repented. "For such a one this punishment by the majority is enough; so you should rather turn to forgive and comfort him, or he may be overwhelmed by excessive sorrow. So I beg you to reaffirm your love for him. (2 Corinthians 2:5-8

This situation makes an excellent starting point for a teaching on love, for we do not necessarily know how, what or whom to love, and must be taught.

Thank you! And the same to you :) I do need to read up on that, I appreciate your post!
 
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