A Good Conversation
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John 3:16 The Passion Translation (TPT)
For this is how much God loved the world—he gave his one and only, unique Son as a gift. So now everyone who believes in him will never perish but experience everlasting life.
Courtesy of Bible Gateway.
The pastor of a church I attended for some time told the story of a day he spent digging into a verse in Ephesians, reading commentaries, translations, studying the Greek, and after a great many hours, came away with a wonderful gem of knowlege. He related how pleased he was to be able to dig this deep, and discover such wonder! And he related how the next Sunday after service, one of the 'little old ladies' in the congregation came to him, "Oh, Chuck! I have to show you what the Spirit showed me when I was reading a couple of days ago.
Wouldn't you know it but she went straight to that passage, and shared with him the very thing he had found.
Not only . . . did she gain from the Spirit, directly to her heart, what he spent his hours searching for, but even if he hadn't, she was still going to come to him on Sunday and share it with him. She, whom had not been esteemed to know such things!
Much love!
Reading the 23rd Psalm in TPT will blow you away!
It is especially important to read the NOTES along with the verses.
The Passion Translation – The Bible For A New Generation
The Passion Translation (TPT) - Version Information - BibleGateway.com
Psalm 23 The Passion Translation (TPT)
The Good Shepherd
23 David’s poetic praise to God [1]
1 The Lord is my best friend and my shepherd. [2]
I always have more than enough.
2 He offers a resting place for me in his luxurious love. [3]
His tracks take me to an oasis of peace, the quiet brook of bliss. [4]
3 That’s where he restores and revives my life. [5]
He opens before me pathways to God’s pleasure
and leads me along in his footsteps of righteousness [6]
so that I can bring honor to his name.
4 Lord, even when your path takes me through
the valley of deepest darkness,
fear will never conquer me, for you already have!
You remain close to me and lead me through it all the way.
Your authority is my strength and my peace. [7]
The comfort of your love takes away my fear.
I’ll never be lonely, for you are near.
5 You become my delicious feast
even when my enemies dare to fight.
You anoint me with the fragrance of your Holy Spirit; [8]
you give me all I can drink of you until my heart overflows.
6 So why would I fear the future?
For your goodness and love pursue me all the days of my life.
Then afterward, when my life is through,
I’ll return to your glorious presence to be forever with you!
Footnotes:
- Psalm 23:1 Most scholars conclude that Ps. 23 was written by David when he was a young shepherd serving his father, Jesse, while he was keeping watch over sheep near Bethlehem. He was most likely sixteen or seventeen years old. The other psalm that he wrote when but a young lad was Ps. 19. Those are two good psalms to memorize and meditate upon if you want to have the heart of the giant killer.
- Psalm 23:1 The word most commonly used for “shepherd” is taken from the root word ra‘ah, which is also the Hebrew word for “best friend.” This translation includes both meanings.
- Psalm 23:2 The Greek word for “love” is agape, which is a merging of two words and two concepts. Ago means “to lead like a shepherd,” and pao is a verb that means “to rest.” Love is our Shepherd leading us to the place of true rest in his heart.
- Psalm 23:2 The Hebrew word menuhâ means “the waters of a resting place.” See Isa. 11:10.
- Psalm 23:3 Or “He causes my life [or soul, Heb. nephesh] to return.” So often life drains out of us through our many activities, but David found that God restores our well-being by pursuing what pleases God and resting in him.
- Psalm 23:3 Or “circular paths of righteousness.” It is a common trait for sheep on the hillsides of Israel to circle their way up higher. They eventually form a path that keeps leading them higher. This is what David is referring to here. Each step we take following our Shepherd will lead us higher, even though it may seem we are going in circles.
- Psalm 23:4 Or “Your rod and your staff, they comfort me.”
- Psalm 23:5 The word oil becomes a symbol of the Holy Spirit
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I like that. I think it's good to read and compare different translations. The two I use most frequently are the NIV or NLT and like to swap occasionally so it becomes fresher. I'm not keen on the Message but I do like how it translates this passage:
Matthew 11:28-30 The Message (MSG)
“Are you tired? Worn out? Burned out on religion? Come to me. Get away with me and you’ll recover your life. I’ll show you how to take a real rest. Walk with me and work with me—watch how I do it. Learn the unforced rhythms of grace. I won’t lay anything heavy or ill-fitting on you. Keep company with me and you’ll learn to live freely and lightly.”
That's an interesting translation!
Return to His presence, do the translators mean to refer to pre-existance, do you think?
Much love!
Well, what do WE mean when we say someone has "gone home" to be with Jesus? He DID know us before we were in our mothers' wombs.
I don't think we existed before conception, myself. God had advance knowledge of us, but I don't see that the same as having been with Him so that we would return to Him.
I was more curious is that was their point of view in this translation, or if they saw that in the original language. I can't think of anyone translating that way. Just caught my eye, that's all.
Much love!
ScottA
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That makes logical sense to me too...but I am more and more convinced that God's own method is even contrary to that. That He has it working in His favor for good, not only relying on our weakness, but planning on it. Sort of like:
"What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin that grace may abound? Certainly not!" Romans 6:1-2
Unfortunately for the OP's premise, the verb "anastrophe" does not mean "conversation." The newer translations rightly correct the KJV's mistranslation. In fact, "anastrophe" means "way of life, behavior, conduct." This error is just one of countless errors made by th3e KJV. But the worst aspect of the KJV is neither its mistranslations nor its archaic Engish, but rather its use of late corrupt biblical manuscripts. That is not the fault of the original translators; they simply lacked access to the best Hebrew and Greek biblical manuscripts which later became available.
btw, At age 16 I preached my first ever sermon at a smelly rescue mission on 1 Peter 1:15 (KJV): "Be holy in all matter of conversation." I remember being upset when I later learned in seminary that that KJV mistranslated that verse!
btw, At age 16 I preached my first ever sermon at a smelly rescue mission on 1 Peter 1:15 (KJV): "Be holy in all matter of conversation." I remember being upset when I later learned in seminary that that KJV mistranslated that verse!
Hi Berserk,
That's the good ol' Kings English.
Conversation is the obsolete word for conduct or behavior. Good translation at the time, as you've learned, me too, we have to know what we're working with.I remember well my first sermon, was at a support group ministry. Afterword my mentor had overly much good to say, but what he didn't know what that I kept losing my place, and all the "carefully placed pauses" were me desparately trying to figure out what I was supposed to say next. How I "moved into the next point . . ." was me trying to figure out if I said this, didn't say it, what am I supposed to say? Say something!
And I learned good and well on that day, its not about what's in me. Thankfully, God can even use disasters!
Much love!
Speaking of preaching disasters, the guy who invited me to preach that day didn't tell me that my audience was largely composed of homeless men and alcoholics who were required to sit through the service right up to the sermon, when they could leave and get their free meal across the street. So this enthusiastic 16-year-old was crushed when the packed out house of over 200 suddenly dwindled down to about 10, the moment I got up to speak!
Ar that service I also embarrassed myself as a young novice preacher. When I gave an altar call, a drunk came forward, knelt at the rail, crying, "Pray for my mother!" But when I knelt down beside him to pray for him, too, he was too drunk to be responsive. My next comment proved that in my youthful innocence, I had a poor grasp of political correctness and tact. I compassionately assured him, "Sir, just because you're a bum doesn't mean God doesn't love you!" That suddenly got his attention and he replied, "Who are you calling a bum!" Ironically, my faux-pas actually allowed me to have a conversation with the man and pray for him. But I now cringe at my youthful insensitivity to language!
Ar that service I also embarrassed myself as a young novice preacher. When I gave an altar call, a drunk came forward, knelt at the rail, crying, "Pray for my mother!" But when I knelt down beside him to pray for him, too, he was too drunk to be responsive. My next comment proved that in my youthful innocence, I had a poor grasp of political correctness and tact. I compassionately assured him, "Sir, just because you're a bum doesn't mean God doesn't love you!" That suddenly got his attention and he replied, "Who are you calling a bum!" Ironically, my faux-pas actually allowed me to have a conversation with the man and pray for him. But I now cringe at my youthful insensitivity to language!
"He DID know us before we were in our mothers' wombs" has no relevance to a saint going home to be with Jesus. Since the New Jerusalem is the eternal home of the children of God, that's exactly where departed saints (souls and spirits) go when they die.
You do realize that this is a paraphrase of the Bible text. The title should really say 'The Passion Paraphrased Translation". Not that it is (in this case) misrepresenting the text, but it is giving an exposition of that verse.
Now here is the actual translation:
RECEIVED TEXT
Οὕτως γὰρ ἠγάπησεν ὁ θεὸς τὸν κόσμον ὥστε τὸν υἱὸν αὐτοῦ τὸν μονογενῆ ἔδωκεν ἵνα πᾶς ὁ πιστεύων εἰς αὐτὸν μὴ ἀπόληται ἀλλ' ἔχῃ ζωὴν αἰώνιον
LITERAL INTERLINEAR TRANSLATION
Thus for loved God the world that the Son the only begotten He gave, so that everyone believing in Him not should perish, but should have life eternal.
IDIOMATIC TRANSLATION (KJV)
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Also, the King James Bible is in the public domain and may be freely copies in part or in whole. Not so modern translations.
IMO I think it does misrepresent the text. 'Begotten' means more than just unique...in all cases I am aware of where μονογενής monogenes is used in relation to people, it is used in context of begetting children. To leave out that nuance (primary nuance IMO) in John 3:16 of all texts, I think is deplorable.
Way too serious mate. I quoted that verse as a response to somebody who mentioned that particular translation. I had not hear of it before so wanted to take a look. That's all, so like I said your reply was a little too serious for the gist of the conversation. I know you're clever so you don't have to prove it
What they "said" in Hebrew, seldom literally translates to English (or probably many other languages) the "meaning" of the depth of the intent of their speaking. Give me something like TPT everytime. It more closely matches what a Hebrew person would tell you the original words conveyed.
Imagine someone trying to translate one of us saying, "It is raining cats and dogs!"
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