TWO GOSPELS PREACHED

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Enoch111

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In your opinion, just what is the gospel? Define it as you see and understand it.
The Gospel in a nutshell is this:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:16,17)
 

Doug

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The Gospel in a nutshell is this:
For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. (John 3:16,17)
Hello
This is a great verse.
We are to believe on the Lord Jesus.
However, there is nothing in this verse of the death,burial, and resurrection of Christ as full payment for sin and our justification unto eternal life.
Our gospel is found in Pau's epistles:

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Romans 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



 

H. Richard

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Hello
This is a great verse.
We are to believe on the Lord Jesus.
However, there is nothing in this verse of the death,burial, and resurrection of Christ as full payment for sin and our justification unto eternal life.
Our gospel is found in Pau's epistles:

1 Corinthians 15:3 For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures;

15:4 And that he was buried, and that he rose again the third day according to the scriptures:

Romans 3:23 For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God;

3:24 Being justified freely by his grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus:

3:25 Whom God hath set forth to be a propitiation through faith in his blood, to declare his righteousness for the remission of sins that are past, through the forbearance of God;

3:26 To declare, I say, at this time his righteousness: that he might be just, and the justifier of him which believeth in Jesus.


Romans 4:21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.

4:22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.

4:23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;

4:24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;

4:25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.



Enoch has said that the hidden gospel was not hidden and the the gospel that Paul taught was the same that Jesus taught.

Enoch says that what was hidden is that God would save the Gentiles. But that was not hidden. It was prophesied in Isaiah 49 and in many other OT writings. What was hidden was that Jesus' death on a cross would pay for all the sins of mankind. That is why it is written that "if those of Satan had known it they would never have let Jesus shed His blood on a cross. But Enoch will not see this.
 
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Doug

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Enoch has said that the hidden gospel was not hidden and the the gospel that Paul taught was the same that Jesus taught.

Enoch says that what was hidden is that God would save the Gentiles. But that was not hidden. It was prophesied in Isaiah 49 and in many other OT writings. What was hidden was that Jesus' death on a cross would pay for all the sins of mankind. That is why it is written that "if those of Satan had known it they would never have let Jesus shed His blood on a cross. But Enoch will not see this.
Hello
You are entirely right.
 

Enoch111

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However, there is nothing in this verse of the death,burial, and resurrection of Christ as full payment for sin and our justification unto eternal life.
I said that it was the Gospel in a nutshell. There is a lot more to the Gospel as we see throughout the NT.
 

H. Richard

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I said that it was the Gospel in a nutshell. There is a lot more to the Gospel as we see throughout the NT.

Why do you want to make it complicated? You had your chance to say what the gospel is but you couldn't do it.

The fact is that it is not hard and complicated at all. Jesus died on the cross where He paid for all the sins of the flesh for the whole world. If this fact was known then Satan would never have let Jesus die on the cross and shed His blood to pay for all the sins of the world

When Jesus paid for the sins of all mankind He defeated Satan by doing it.
 

Enoch111

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The fact is that it is not hard and complicated at all.
I did not say that the Gospel is hard or complicated. I did say there is a lot more to the Gospel than what is in a nutshell. The real issue is that there is only one Gospel. But you are claiming that there are two Gospels (as per the title of this thread).
 

H. Richard

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I did not say that the Gospel is hard or complicated. I did say there is a lot more to the Gospel than what is in a nutshell. The real issue is that there is only one Gospel. But you are claiming that there are two Gospels (as per the title of this thread).

I did not start this thread. Doug started this thread.

Wrong. Neither I, nor Doug, are saying there are two gospels in effect at the same time. One has been set aside when The nation of Israel refused to believe Jesus was their Messiah and King. It will return when Jesus sets up His Kingdom in Israel.

2 Cor 3:7-11
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.
11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
NKJV

Verse 7 = the law of Moses was passing away
verse 9 = the law was a ministry of condemnation
verse 11 = God's grace supersedes The law of Moses

But you will continue to say, without qualification, that I am saying there are two gospels running together. But God knows I am not. A person, today, can not be saved under the gospel of the kingdom because it was only promised to the Jews and the promised kingdom has been set aside.
 
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Doug

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I did not start this thread. Doug started this thread.

Wrong. Neither I, nor Doug, are saying there are two gospels in effect at the same time. One has been set aside when The nation of Israel refused to believe Jesus was their Messiah and King. It will return when Jesus sets up His Kingdom in Israel.

2 Cor 3:7-11
7 But if the ministry of death, written and engraved on stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not look steadily at the face of Moses because of the glory of his countenance, which glory was passing away,
8 how will the ministry of the Spirit not be more glorious?
9 For if the ministry of condemnation had glory, the ministry of righteousness exceeds much more in glory.
10 For even what was made glorious had no glory in this respect, because of the glory that excels.
11 For if what is passing away was glorious, what remains is much more glorious.
NKJV

Verse 7 = the law of Moses was passing away
verse 9 = the law was a ministry of condemnation
verse 11 = God's grace supersedes The law of Moses

But you will continue to say, without qualification, that I am saying there are two gospels running together. But God knows I am not. A person, today, can not be saved under the gospel of the kingdom because it was only promised to the Jews and the promised kingdom has been set aside.

Hello H Richard
I agree with all said except there were two gospels at the same time although the gospel of the circumcision was diminishing.
Look at Galatians 2:9 where Peter and the disciples were to go unto the Jews with the gospel of the circumcision (the gospel of the kingdom plus the resurrection and the Spirit) and Paul with the gospel of Christ. There are two gospel at the same time here, at that time only.
 

Enoch111

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Enoch has said that the hidden gospel was not hidden and the the gospel that Paul taught was the same that Jesus taught.
Yes. The Gospel was the same from Jesus to Paul. Please take careful note of Scripture (not your own imagination).

THE WORDS OF JESUS

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26)

THE WORDS OF PAUL
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)
And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification. (Rom 4:22-25)
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.(Rom 10:9-11)
What was hidden was that Jesus' death on a cross would pay for all the sins of mankind.
Totally false. See Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.

And you still don't get it although Paul (not Enoch) said that what was hidden was the Mystery of the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body). Not that Gentiles could not (or would not) be saved, but they all would be in ONE BODY OF CHRIST without distinction.
 

Doug

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Yes. The Gospel was the same from Jesus to Paul. Please take careful note of Scripture (not your own imagination).

THE WORDS OF JESUS

For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (John 3:16)
Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live: And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die. Believest thou this? (John 11:25,26)

THE WORDS OF PAUL
And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. (Acts 16:30,31)
And therefore it was imputed to him [Abraham] for righteousness. Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him; But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead; Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
(Rom 4:22-25)
That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.(Rom 10:9-11)

Totally false. See Isaiah 53 and Psalm 22.

And you still don't get it although Paul (not Enoch) said that what was hidden was the Mystery of the Church (redeemed Jews and Gentiles in one Body). Not that Gentiles could not (or would not) be saved, but they all would be in ONE BODY OF CHRIST without distinction.

Hello
John 3:16 is not the same as Romans 3 or 4 because there is nothing of the death of Christ for payment and propitiation of sin in John. John speaks of believing only on the name of Jesus for salvation.

Revealed by Paul's epistles is that Jesus's sacrifice was for all not just for the redemption of transgressions committed by Israel under the first covenant (Hebrews 9:15).
 

H. Richard

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Hello H Richard
I agree with all said except there were two gospels at the same time although the gospel of the circumcision was diminishing.
Look at Galatians 2:9 where Peter and the disciples were to go unto the Jews with the gospel of the circumcision (the gospel of the kingdom plus the resurrection and the Spirit) and Paul with the gospel of Christ. There are two gospel at the same time here, at that time only.

Your operative word is """were""

According to the what Jesus said there were about 40 years given to the 12 to get Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King. After that time the Temple was destroyed and the gospel of grace became the only gospel that saves mankind. Under grace all men, both Jew and gentile must come to God through the work of Jesus on the cross.

The Barren Fig Tree:

Luke 13:6-9
6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?'
8 But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.
9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'" NKJV

Jesus spent 3 years in His ministry to the nation of Israel (the fig tree) and they did not accept Him as their king. After His crucifixion His apostles had about 40 years (to dig around it). But it never happened so God destroyed the Jewish Temple, and has now offered salvation by grace to all. Up until this time the only way a Gentile could be saved was through a saved Jew. Now everyone, Jew and Gentile, is on a level playing field.
 
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H. Richard

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Yes. The Gospel was the same from Jesus to Paul. Please take careful note of Scripture (not your own imagination).

I hope your put downs give you pleasure because you use them to anyone that has a different opinion. It is not showing any fruits of the Spirit.

I could make these same digs at you but I am above it. bye
 

Doug

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Your operative word is """were""

According to the what Jesus said there were about 40 years given to the 12 to get Israel to accept Jesus as their Messiah and King. After that time the Temple was destroyed and the gospel of grace became the only gospel that saves mankind. Under grace all men, both Jew and gentile must come to God through the work of Jesus on the cross.

The Barren Fig Tree:

Luke 13:6-9
6 He also spoke this parable: "A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard, and he came seeking fruit on it and found none.
7 Then he said to the keeper of his vineyard, 'Look, for three years I have come seeking fruit on this fig tree and find none. Cut it down; why does it use up the ground?'
8 But he answered and said to him, 'Sir, let it alone this year also, until I dig around it and fertilize it.
9 And if it bears fruit, well. But if not, after that you can cut it down.'" NKJV

Jesus spent 3 years in His ministry to the nation of Israel (the fig tree) and they did not accept Him as their king. After His crucifixion His apostles had about 40 years (to dig around it). But it never happened so God destroyed the Jewish Temple, and has now offered salvation by grace to all. Up until this time the only way a Gentile could be saved was through a saved Jew. Now everyone, Jew and Gentile, is on a level playing field.

Hello
I agree with everything you stated.
The gospel today is only found in Paul's epistles.
The gospel of the kingdom will be preached again after this dispensation of grace (Matthew 24:14).
 
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H. Richard

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Up until the temple was destroyed in 70 AD any Jew who accepted Jesus as their Messiah and King would be saved through their belief (faith) that Jesus was their Messiah and King (John 3:16).

But that way was closed when time ran out for the nation of Israel and they still refused to put their faith in Jesus. Today the only way to be saved is to put belief (faith) in the work of Jesus on the cross.
 

Enoch111

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Up until the temple was destroyed in 70 AD any Jew who accepted Jesus as their Messiah and King would be saved through their belief (faith) that Jesus was their Messiah and King (John 3:16).
You are deliberately changing the meaning of John 3:16. Indeed you are promoting some seriously flawed doctrines.
 

Doug

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You are deliberately changing the meaning of John 3:16. Indeed you are promoting some seriously flawed doctrines.
Hello
H Richard is right John 3:16 says that whosoever believes in his name, believes on Jesus as Messiah and Son of God has everlasting life.

John 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.

Jesus was not preaching his death and resurrection yet. Faith in Jesus dying for our sins and his resurrection for our justification would not come until Paul. Israel was to believe only on his name at this time

John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.
 
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H. Richard

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You are deliberately changing the meaning of John 3:16. Indeed you are promoting some seriously flawed doctrines.

Your opinion is not shared by me or many others. You are not God and if your faith is not in the gospel that Paul taught then you are on your way to a very hot place. The gospel is not the many works of religion that men teach. It is faith in what God has already done. But you say I am preaching a false gospel because I do not believe as you do. I don't really care about your false accusations about what I believe. I have as much right to say what I believe as you do without the continuous accusations of teaching a false gospel. God will be the judge between us. Not you.

You have an attitude that if I, and others, don't teach and preach what you believe then we must all be wrong. It really doesn't bother me as you seem to think because you do it to everyone that does not believe as you do.

I am hear to teach what I see in the scriptures. I am not hear to elevate myself by writing all those derogatory remarks about what others believe. But it seems you are here to do that to anyone who has the audacity to say what they believe.

Just keep it up because it shows that you are not a child of God because you have none of the fruits of the Spirit.
Gal 5:22-25
22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness,
23 gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
24 And those who are Christ's have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires.
25 If we live in the Spirit, let us also walk in the Spirit.
NKJV

As for you, in the future I will not reply to you directly as I have here because it is a waste of my time. You are set in your way that you are the greatest and have the idea that you are above everyone else on this forum.
 
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Hello
There is more than one gospel and the only one that saves today is Paul's.

And what if you (and most of Christianity) are wrong? What if it's Paul that is wrong?
Jesus/Yahshua hand-picked twelve men to declare the true gospel.

Paul was a Pharisee studying nearby at the feet of Gamaliel.
Why didn't Jesus immediately contact this prolific writing talent right from the beginning?
Why is Paul's gospel so different than Peter, James and John's?
Why doesn't any of the "New Testament" writers begin any of their writings with "Thus saith the LORD?"

In warfare, one of the greatest mistakes one can ever make is to underestimate the enemy's tactics.
What if Paul was subtly used by Satan to dismiss and demean the Holy Spirit inspired words contained in the "Old" Testament about observing God's commandments? (Ecc 12:13)

Why would our Savior sternly warn us:

Mat 7:21 Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
Mat 7:22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
Mat 7:23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity (lawlessness).

if all we have to do is: "say the magic words, JESUS IS LORD & believe" in order to acquire salvation?