Isaac
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Im not sure about what you mean born by flesh or spirit, But yes Israel is the true church the True children of God but who are the 12 tribes is the question. They are not all in Jerusalem nor do they all call themselves Jews.They are in fact divided into two sticks. (Eze.37)If you want to better understand these two sticks theres a great little book on ithttp://reluctant-messenger.com/judahs_sceptre_101.htm
(univac;59317)
Isaac born by flesh or Holy Spirit? Which makes IsraeI truly the Children of God.
How about I give it a shot at your question?How about both? Isaac was born by flesh because he is human, born in sin nature. Isaac was born of the Holy Spirit, because Isaac is one of the person for Christ (God) to come through being human. (Son of God) As Christ is the descendant of Issac.
Isaac born by flesh or Holy Spirit? Which makes IsraeI truly the Children of God.
How about I give it a shot at your question?How about both? Isaac was born by flesh because he is human, born in sin nature. Isaac was born of the Holy Spirit, because Isaac is one of the person for Christ (God) to come through being human. (Son of God) As Christ is the descendant of Issac.
My reasoning is that Isaac is begotten by Gods Holy Spirit through Sarah, and not flesh/soul through slave girl Hagar like Ishmael.Even though he was born flesh, as was John and our lord. Which makes Israel the offspring of God and us the adopted children. As one is of Holy Spirit and the other of Soul (Adam). But thanks to God that we gentiles have received his Holy Spirit through our Lord Jesus Christ and have permission to be children of God Amen.Thats why it is said first the jews then the Gentiles.Only my reasoningGod bless
Issac may have been one of the Elect (that is foreknown by God but he was just born of flesh like everyone else. He had a flesh mother and flesh father. 2For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. 3And Abraham called the name of his son that was born unto him, whom Sarah bare to him, Isaac. 4And Abraham circumcised his son Isaac being eight days old, as God had commanded him. Ishmael became the father of the Arab nations Abraham, Issac, and Jacob were called the fathers of the Israelites but they were fleshthere is only one son of God Jesus Christ
Galatians 4:22-31 (King James Version) 22For it is written, that Abraham had two sons, the one by a bondmaid, the other by a freewoman. 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh; but he of the freewoman was by promise. 24Which things are an allegory: for these are the two covenants; the one from the mount Sinai, which gendereth to bondage, which is Agar. 25For this Agar is mount Sinai in Arabia, and answereth to Jerusalem which now is, and is in bondage with her children. 26But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all. 27For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband. 28Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise. 29But as then he that was born after the flesh persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, even so it is now. 30Nevertheless what saith the scripture? Cast out the bondwoman and her son: for the son of the bondwoman shall not be heir with the son of the freewoman. 31So then, brethren, we are not children of the bondwoman, but of the free.
You need to be very careful here with this line of thought tread lightly here you are bordering on blasphemy none of these verse's say, nor even hint at the fact Issac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah There is one son of God that is Christ. Being filled with Gods holy spirit from the time you were born is not the same as being a the son of GodThe promise here was to Abraham and the inheritance went to Issac not Ishmael.
tim_from_pa
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(univac;59324)
My reasoning is that Isaac is begotten by Gods Holy Spirit through Sarah, and not flesh/soul through slave girl Hagar like Ishmael.Even though he was born flesh, as was John and our lord. Which makes Israel the offspring of God and us the adopted children. As one is of Holy Spirit and the other of Soul (Adam). But thanks to God that we gentiles have received his Holy Spirit through our Lord Jesus Christ and have permission to be children of God Amen.Thats why it is said first the jews then the Gentiles.Only my reasoningGod bless
Isaac was a child of promise, but still flesh. He was not conceived by the Holy Spirit otherwise he'd been the same as Christ.Paul was comparing allegory.And one other thing that you seem to confuse which is why there is an Israel/church debate all the time.There is elect of race and there is elect of grace.All the promises to Israel are racial, but within those parameters are promises of grace in which they would bring to the world eventually thru Christ.One can be elect of race, inherit the promises and be God's chosen and ordained person and still go to hell. Then again, one can be totally gentile, no promises and excluded (in and of himself) from the commonwealth of Israel and yet find grace.In fact, it's not that cut and dry. They overlap somewhat, but I find people confusing the promises to Israel and the patriarchs with spiritual salvation.Israel is God's physical earthly kingdom to show the world the way of God and to prepare for His Coming Kingdom.The church on the other hand are people that God solely chose by grace in this time that will rule and reign with him in the Millennium. It's not about "dying and going to heaven". That in and of itself is a self-centered and hedonistic faith. The important thing is what God plans to do with various people, and He will call them to salvation when He decides to call them no matter how many evangelistic get-saved meetings one may hold.
My reasoning is that Isaac is begotten by Gods Holy Spirit through Sarah, and not flesh/soul through slave girl Hagar like Ishmael.Even though he was born flesh, as was John and our lord. Which makes Israel the offspring of God and us the adopted children. As one is of Holy Spirit and the other of Soul (Adam). But thanks to God that we gentiles have received his Holy Spirit through our Lord Jesus Christ and have permission to be children of God Amen.Thats why it is said first the jews then the Gentiles.Only my reasoningGod bless
Isaac was a child of promise, but still flesh. He was not conceived by the Holy Spirit otherwise he'd been the same as Christ.Paul was comparing allegory.And one other thing that you seem to confuse which is why there is an Israel/church debate all the time.There is elect of race and there is elect of grace.All the promises to Israel are racial, but within those parameters are promises of grace in which they would bring to the world eventually thru Christ.One can be elect of race, inherit the promises and be God's chosen and ordained person and still go to hell. Then again, one can be totally gentile, no promises and excluded (in and of himself) from the commonwealth of Israel and yet find grace.In fact, it's not that cut and dry. They overlap somewhat, but I find people confusing the promises to Israel and the patriarchs with spiritual salvation.Israel is God's physical earthly kingdom to show the world the way of God and to prepare for His Coming Kingdom.The church on the other hand are people that God solely chose by grace in this time that will rule and reign with him in the Millennium. It's not about "dying and going to heaven". That in and of itself is a self-centered and hedonistic faith. The important thing is what God plans to do with various people, and He will call them to salvation when He decides to call them no matter how many evangelistic get-saved meetings one may hold.
(Christina;59351)
You need to be very careful here with this line of thought tread lightly here you are bordering on blasphemy None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Issac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah There is one Son of God that is Christ.Being filled with Gods Holy Spirit from the time you were born is not the same as being a the Son of GodThe promise here was to Abraham and the inheritance went to Issac not Ishmael. You wrote:None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Isaac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah The promise here was to Abraham and the inheritance went to Isaac not Ishmael.
Hi ChristinaFirst of all I would be careful of being self righteous in the word and taggingThe Holy Spirit that dwells in me of boarding on BlasphemyYou believe that Abraham seed entered Sarah Womb as I respect your opinion, where I believe God planted a seed in Sarah womb as his convenant with Abraham, or do you think God can't do this? Genesis 17; 16I will bless her yes, and Give you a son by her I will bless her so that she shall become a mother of nations and from her kings of people shall spring.You wrote:2For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. My reply:Yes Sarah did conceive by God's blessing and God gave Abraham a son by her.You wrote:None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Isaac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh ; but he of the freewoman was by promise . What was the promise?That God will give you Abraham a son by her and I will establish My covenant as an everlasting covenant for his children after him, Not Abraham you will but I will bless her yes and give you a son by her .You wrote:None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Isaac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah 29But as then he that was born after the flesh (Ishmael) persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, (Isaac, Israel) even so it is now. You wroteThere is one Son of God that is Christ.1 Agreed there is only one Christ Jesus who is the Reconciliation of Gods Meaning that all creation came through and is reconcile for him by him and is lord God Amen.You wroteBeing filled with Gods Holy Spirit from the time you were born is not the same as being the Son of God.What is a Son of God but Gods?Was Mother Mary filled with the Holy Spirit? Isn’t Christ the anointed son of the Father God almighty, was Elizabeth filled with Holy Spirit and is Elijah a Son of God? Isn't Isaac a Son of God? Wasn’t Jacob God's First Born? Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22. What did Jesus say? John 10; 34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in the Law I"said you are GodsJesus taught the Jews that God is there Father. And gave us permission to be Gods children. Common people like (you and me) are the sons of God: "Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12. "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15. "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: ... now are we the sons of God" 1 John 3:1-2. "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7. "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 2:1. "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 1:6. "When the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men," Genesis 6:4. "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair" Genesis 6:2 Adam is the Son of God "Adam, which was the Son of God." Luke 3:38. You wroteThe promise here was to Abraham and the inheritance went to Isaac not Ishmael. Did I say that the inheritance went to Ishmael? Refresh me please, or are you Just Quoting?God said "I have also heard you (Abram) regarding Ishmael and will indeed bless him, and render him fruitful. I will multiply him immensely; he willBe ancestor to 12 princes and I will set him up for a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac. Isaac was born of spirit and Ishmael of soul. What is the difference?One is of Adam and one of God. What is sin but the absence of the Spirit of God? Adam lost the Holy Spirit, which made him a soul/ Flesh (sin) only due the absence of God. Ishmael was born in absence of God and Isaac was born in the presence of God. As salvation is from the Jews.As the first Adam lost the Holy Spirit. By the Grace of God The second Adam Christ Jesus we have recieved the holy Spirit through by faith in him and been given permission to be the Children of God first the Jew the gentiles.God bless
You need to be very careful here with this line of thought tread lightly here you are bordering on blasphemy None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Issac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah There is one Son of God that is Christ.Being filled with Gods Holy Spirit from the time you were born is not the same as being a the Son of GodThe promise here was to Abraham and the inheritance went to Issac not Ishmael. You wrote:None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Isaac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah The promise here was to Abraham and the inheritance went to Isaac not Ishmael.
Hi ChristinaFirst of all I would be careful of being self righteous in the word and taggingThe Holy Spirit that dwells in me of boarding on BlasphemyYou believe that Abraham seed entered Sarah Womb as I respect your opinion, where I believe God planted a seed in Sarah womb as his convenant with Abraham, or do you think God can't do this? Genesis 17; 16I will bless her yes, and Give you a son by her I will bless her so that she shall become a mother of nations and from her kings of people shall spring.You wrote:2For Sarah conceived, and bare Abraham a son in his old age, at the set time of which God had spoken to him. My reply:Yes Sarah did conceive by God's blessing and God gave Abraham a son by her.You wrote:None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Isaac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah 23But he who was of the bondwoman was born after the flesh ; but he of the freewoman was by promise . What was the promise?That God will give you Abraham a son by her and I will establish My covenant as an everlasting covenant for his children after him, Not Abraham you will but I will bless her yes and give you a son by her .You wrote:None of these verses say, nor even hint at the fact Isaac was born of anything but a flesh union between Abraham and Sarah 29But as then he that was born after the flesh (Ishmael) persecuted him that was born after the Spirit, (Isaac, Israel) even so it is now. You wroteThere is one Son of God that is Christ.1 Agreed there is only one Christ Jesus who is the Reconciliation of Gods Meaning that all creation came through and is reconcile for him by him and is lord God Amen.You wroteBeing filled with Gods Holy Spirit from the time you were born is not the same as being the Son of God.What is a Son of God but Gods?Was Mother Mary filled with the Holy Spirit? Isn’t Christ the anointed son of the Father God almighty, was Elizabeth filled with Holy Spirit and is Elijah a Son of God? Isn't Isaac a Son of God? Wasn’t Jacob God's First Born? Jacob is God's son and firstborn: "Israel is my son, even my firstborn" Exodus 4:22. What did Jesus say? John 10; 34 Jesus answered them: Is it not written in the Law I"said you are GodsJesus taught the Jews that God is there Father. And gave us permission to be Gods children. Common people like (you and me) are the sons of God: "Ye are the children of the LORD your God" Deuteronomy 14:1. "For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God" Romans 8:14. "But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, [even] to them that believe on his name:" John 1:12. "That ye may be blameless and harmless, the sons of God, without rebuke, in the midst of a crooked and perverse nation, among whom ye shine as lights in the world;" Philippians 2:15. "Behold, what manner of love the Father hath bestowed upon us, that we should be called the sons of God: ... now are we the sons of God" 1 John 3:1-2. "When the morning stars sang together, and all the sons of God shouted for joy?" Job 38:7. "Again there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 2:1. "Now there was a day when the sons of God came to present themselves before the LORD," Job 1:6. "When the sons of God came in unto the daughters of men," Genesis 6:4. "That the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they [were] fair" Genesis 6:2 Adam is the Son of God "Adam, which was the Son of God." Luke 3:38. You wroteThe promise here was to Abraham and the inheritance went to Isaac not Ishmael. Did I say that the inheritance went to Ishmael? Refresh me please, or are you Just Quoting?God said "I have also heard you (Abram) regarding Ishmael and will indeed bless him, and render him fruitful. I will multiply him immensely; he willBe ancestor to 12 princes and I will set him up for a great nation. But my covenant I will establish with Isaac. Isaac was born of spirit and Ishmael of soul. What is the difference?One is of Adam and one of God. What is sin but the absence of the Spirit of God? Adam lost the Holy Spirit, which made him a soul/ Flesh (sin) only due the absence of God. Ishmael was born in absence of God and Isaac was born in the presence of God. As salvation is from the Jews.As the first Adam lost the Holy Spirit. By the Grace of God The second Adam Christ Jesus we have recieved the holy Spirit through by faith in him and been given permission to be the Children of God first the Jew the gentiles.God bless
first of all I was not being self rightgious I was warning you out of deep concern that to say there is another Son of God is a dangerous doctrine for anyone to follow your very soul could be a stake If my concern was taken as self rightousness the misconception is yours.
While I do appreciate your concern,Thanks, but I believe Isaac was born of Spirit even if you don't agree. God bless
First of all I would be careful of being self righteous in the word and taggingThe Holy Spirit that dwells in me of boarding on Blasphemy
To be quite honest, I'm vary weary of this myself. You're in effect saying that there is another Christ, conceived of the Holy Spirit and born to Sarah and Abraham. That's quite a claim, and so now you're claiming a second Christ, in essence. That is very dangerous ground.
You believe that Abraham seed entered Sarah Womb as I respect your opinion, where I believe God planted a seed in Sarah womb as his convenant with Abraham, or do you think God can't do this?
I think I can explicitly state this for Christina and myself here. God did plant the seed with Yeshua the Christ, as clearly prophesied and stated numerous times. However, this was very clearly not the case with Isaac.Genesis 17:16
I will bless her yes, and Give you a son by her I will bless her so that she shall become a mother of nations and from her kings of people shall spring.
And what did Abraham's name mean? Father of the multitudes (or many as some translate it.) Key word there being father.Galatians 4:3 says nothing about the child being conceived of the Holy Spirit. Of course God promised him, but that doesn't mean God conceived him via the Holy Spirit. That sort of logic quickly breaks down because you have Jacob and Esau, whom God named in the womb. Not to mention the other numerous births of which God foretold. Jesus begins to look pretty typical if you liberally translate all of these.Sorry, but this blasphemy.Short answer:Joseph was not the Father of Jesus. Abraham, was the Father of Isaac. To say that Isaac was immaculately conceived is to say that he was another Christ, which he was not.
To be quite honest, I'm vary weary of this myself. You're in effect saying that there is another Christ, conceived of the Holy Spirit and born to Sarah and Abraham. That's quite a claim, and so now you're claiming a second Christ, in essence. That is very dangerous ground.
You believe that Abraham seed entered Sarah Womb as I respect your opinion, where I believe God planted a seed in Sarah womb as his convenant with Abraham, or do you think God can't do this?
I think I can explicitly state this for Christina and myself here. God did plant the seed with Yeshua the Christ, as clearly prophesied and stated numerous times. However, this was very clearly not the case with Isaac.Genesis 17:16
I will bless her yes, and Give you a son by her I will bless her so that she shall become a mother of nations and from her kings of people shall spring.
And what did Abraham's name mean? Father of the multitudes (or many as some translate it.) Key word there being father.Galatians 4:3 says nothing about the child being conceived of the Holy Spirit. Of course God promised him, but that doesn't mean God conceived him via the Holy Spirit. That sort of logic quickly breaks down because you have Jacob and Esau, whom God named in the womb. Not to mention the other numerous births of which God foretold. Jesus begins to look pretty typical if you liberally translate all of these.Sorry, but this blasphemy.Short answer:Joseph was not the Father of Jesus. Abraham, was the Father of Isaac. To say that Isaac was immaculately conceived is to say that he was another Christ, which he was not.
Furthermore, how would you interpret the following?John 3:5
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
I wasn't immaculately conceived, does that deny me entry to heaven?
Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.
I wasn't immaculately conceived, does that deny me entry to heaven?
You seem to be confused in this matter. Isaac was born in spirit and Ishmael in the Flesh,I think you don't understand the difference of being born in spirit of flesh.If you don't understand what this mean's I will say no More. But the Jews first then the gentiles. And as for being born of water is Repentance that leads to salvation receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Yes born of Holy Spirit, does it make me Christ, no It makes me one with Christ my savior.This is the purpose why our Lord came incarnated. Redemption first the Jews then the Gentiles. And I'm getting accused of blasphemy by saying that I said that a second Christ was born, that is just your slandering. Being born of Gods Spirit is being with God. Not being Christ so wake up.God bless
(univac;59390)
You seem to be confused in this matter. Isaac was born in spirit and Ishmael in the Flesh,I think you don't understand the difference of being born in spirit of flesh.If you don't understand what this mean's I will say no More. But the Jews first then the gentiles. And as for being born of water is Repentance that leads to salvation receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Yes born of Holy Spirit, does it make me Christ, no It makes me one with Christ my savior.This is the purpose why our Lord came incarnated. Redemption first the Jews then the Gentiles. And I'm getting accused of blasphemy by saying that I said that a second Christ was born, that is just your slandering. Being born of Gods Spirit is being with God. Not being Christ so wake up.God bless
Actually, Swamp Fox is not confused. He's right, and so does Christina. Isaac is human, born in sin nature. Same goes to Ishmael. I can safely assure you that neither of them especially me is not blind to this matter.
You seem to be confused in this matter. Isaac was born in spirit and Ishmael in the Flesh,I think you don't understand the difference of being born in spirit of flesh.If you don't understand what this mean's I will say no More. But the Jews first then the gentiles. And as for being born of water is Repentance that leads to salvation receiving the gift of the Holy Spirit. Yes born of Holy Spirit, does it make me Christ, no It makes me one with Christ my savior.This is the purpose why our Lord came incarnated. Redemption first the Jews then the Gentiles. And I'm getting accused of blasphemy by saying that I said that a second Christ was born, that is just your slandering. Being born of Gods Spirit is being with God. Not being Christ so wake up.God bless
Actually, Swamp Fox is not confused. He's right, and so does Christina. Isaac is human, born in sin nature. Same goes to Ishmael. I can safely assure you that neither of them especially me is not blind to this matter.
(Jordan;59405)
Because of the disobedience of Adam.
So sin is the absence of God's Holy Spirit, So Adam becames just a living soul So are we born in the absence of God inreturn born in sin?
Because of the disobedience of Adam.
So sin is the absence of God's Holy Spirit, So Adam becames just a living soul So are we born in the absence of God inreturn born in sin?
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