Total adherence to Calvinism makes God the author of evil

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GodsGrace

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@friend of here’s the Merriam-Webster dictionary definition of free will...


—voluntary choice or decision
—freedom of humans to make choices that are not determined by prior causes or by divine intervention

The will is never free, but is driven by something. You would never choose to eat something rotten because it would make you queasy just by smelling it. If you put a bale of hay and a piece of meat before a lion, he would never choose the hay, because he’s a carnivore and eating hay would go against his nature. A cow would never eat meat because that’s not it’s nature to do so. A bird will never swim, a fish will never fly, we will never take flight by flapping our arms really, really, hard, because all of these things are not natural for them.

It goes against the will of fallen man to seek God, because he hates Him. That is why Paul wrote there are none who understands, there are none who seek God.[Romans 3:11] They consider the preaching of the cross as foolishness.[1 Corinthians 1:18]

So, man’s will is never free. As Paul so poignantly wrote Do you not know that when you present yourselves to someone as slaves for obedience, you are slaves of the one whom you obey, either of sin resulting in death, or of obedience resulting in righteousness?[Romans 6:16] Ppl are either slaves to sin or slaves to righteousness.
Indeed.
Romans 6:16 states clearly that we PRESENT OURSELVES to the one whom we will serve.

Of our own free libertarian will.
 

GodsGrace

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The entirety of your premise is in the erroneous and unbiblical assumption men and women can choose themselves into eternal life via free will. This is unbiblical my friend.

I pray God shows this to you and opens your understanding. No need to comment here, there is plenty in my last post.
How do you explain

Acts 16:30-31
30Then he brought them out and asked, “Sirs, what must I do to be saved?”
31They replied, “Believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved, along with everyone in your household.”

Or did Paul tell the jailer there was nothing he could do because it was up to God to save whom He will??
 
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GodsGrace

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Correct, because none are free in their will or otherwise, nor are they able to come to Christ.

People aren't saved via their will, John 1:13, nor are any free in their will; John 8:36.



God is God, and as one has rightly stated, there is not one rogue molecule in the universe. If God did not "exercise" his power, will, what have you, the entirety of the universe would be in jeopardy. Everything holds together due to Christ; Colossians 1:17; all things were created for him and by him; so he is in complete control of them; Colossians 1:16. The Universe is heading right for what God ordained since he is God. He directs men to accomplish his purpose, for he is actually God.



God doesn't make persons murder others, it's the result of the fall, but he may direct things to his desired end as Scriptures will show below and allow it to take place. He has full right to do so as the whole world is condemned, under wrath, and for him to execute justice is his right.

Most of what you say shows nescience of what we truly understand from Scripture. You've heard a little here and there, yet haven't studied it to get to the facts which are apparent due to you misrepresenting things. If you had read up, you'd not have posted misinformation.

Now, when Christ was crucified, God ordained it t happen that way; note Acts 2:23 and Isaiah 53:10. God also moved the Assyrians on his people, then punished them for what they did later on; Isaiah 10:1-26. God used other nations to do the same to Israel, knowing the great atrocities they'd inflict.

God moved those around Absalom so that he would be killed; 2 Samuel 17:14. God allowed Satan to take the things belonging to Job, including family, possessions, health. Job did not sin with his lips when he said God did it; Job 1:22; Job 2:10.



Perhaps this is the reason you designed this thread? For derision, or for correction? That's up to you.

Are you ready to actually listen, accept your erroneous conclusions, and do some serious reading and learning? If of the latter, you'll get your mind changed, if of the former you'll continue to not learn and misrepresent.
Oh. You're here to change person's mind?
I'd say that those who disagree with you are correct in their theology and perhaps YOU should study some more so that you could come to know and love the one true God.

John 12:32 JESUS said...because He wants ALL to be saved:
. 32And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

And please don't tell me I'm a universalist.
God has conditions....when we adhere to HIS conditions, we can know we are saved because it's our conscious decision to be saved.

You, otoh, cannot be sure you're saved until you persevere till the end.

Romans 10:9-13 This is the HOW we are saved:
9If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved.
11As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”
12Jew and Gentilef are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him.
13For “Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.”


Please notice the progression for salvation.
EVERYTHING in the above verses speaks to what WE ARE TO DO
to be saved.

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.
FOR THERE IS NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD.
Romans 2:11
 
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Preacher4Truth

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Oh. You're here to change person's mind?
I'd say that those who disagree with you are correct in their theology and perhaps YOU should study some more so that you could come to know and love the one true God.

John 12:32 JESUS said...because He wants ALL to be saved:
. 32And when I am lifted up from the earth, I will draw everyone to myself.”

Try context here. The Greeks were seeking him. There's a hint for you as to the reason he said what he did.

And please don't tell me I'm a universalist.
God has conditions....when we adhere to HIS conditions, we can know we are saved because it's our conscious decision to be saved.

You, otoh, cannot be sure you're saved until you persevere till the end.

Romans 10:9-13 This is the HOW we are saved:
9If you openly declare that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.
10For it is by believing in your heart that you are made right with God, and it is by openly declaring your faith that you are saved.
11As the Scriptures tell us, “Anyone who trusts in him will never be disgraced.”
12Jew and Gentilef are the same in this respect. They have the same Lord, who gives generously to all who call on him.
13For “Everyone who calls on the name of the LORD will be saved.”


Please notice the progression for salvation.
EVERYTHING in the above verses speaks to what WE ARE TO DO
to be saved.

EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED.
FOR THERE IS NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD.
Romans 2:11

Hmm. I cannot know I'm saved for sure unless I persevere. Sort of true. Funny that you're ridiculing that since you believe the same thing yourself. If you don't keep things up, you lose your salvation. But you also gained it yourself, so it follows, that's the real "otoh" here on two accounts.

Nope, not here to change your mind, just here to discuss Scripture. In context. *Have to edit this here after further thought. Yes, I am in fact ministering the word in order to see, by God's grace, minds changed, which is literally repentance. This is why we preach, teach, so the attempt to ridicule such an effort is rather shallow, nor well thought out to be honest. That said I'll leave my initial comment.

This, using context is something you absolutely refuse to do yourself. Why? Because doing so refutes your belief system, so, you avoid it.

I'm also here to stand against and refute errors such as yours and many others.

"Calling on the name of the LORD" is not a formula for salvation.

Sorry, you're wrong yet again. You're misusing the text.

No one does anything for salvation, but you think you've done it yourself, but, in fact, you cannot and therefore have not. You simply read things into texts with your presuppositions.

"Calling on the name of the LORD" is not speaking of an act for salvation, nor an incantation or formula that if done results in salvation.

Study out its meaning in Scripture instead of the kneejerk reacting and reading into it what's not there, which, by the way, goes against the balance of Scripture and Gospel truth. I know what it entails, and it's not a sinners prayer. No need to reduce and mitigate its truth in that manner.

The fact God shows no partiality has zero to do with the fact he elects to salvation. Wonder what it really means?

Here's a hint: Context.

I also have to address this, you said: "EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED. FOR THERE IS NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. Romans 2:11"

The above is NOT what Romans 2:11 says, and I just noticed how you made it appear that's what it says. You added to the verse to make it appear it says that by adding the first 12 words. Not sure why you went and did that, but, you did, and frankly that's not cool at all. You've totally misrepresented the truth with that one. It's really shameful, please stop mishandling the word in that way. Read 2 Corinthians 2:17 and 2 Corinthians 4:1-5.

It's like using "God is no respecter of persons" to dismiss election. It's rather foolish, and many do it. The issue? It's ripped out of context.

Find out what it really means (that he shows no partiality.) It's not a text to pit against other texts that prove God elects to salvation as if it neutralizes this fact. 2 Timothy 2:15 is in order and you're failing to implement that because you refuse to use context.
 
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Helen

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@Preacher4Truth @Anthony D'Arienzo @Mjh29 @farouk @Laish @Kermos

We know that for prophecy to truly be prophetic, it must come to pass. That was the litmus test of being a prophet of God found in Deuteronomy 18. Can you imagine all the free will decisions that had to happen just for the Christ to be born in the flesh? etc etc


That is funny. So you can't just post to "Friend of " by yourself...you need back up to help you. Priceless , love it!! :D

It made my day. Thank you. Your safe now you have "the big boys" at your side.

One day all will be revealed...as to with whom the truth lays. :)
 
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Phoneman777

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Overall, Calvinism is incompatible with free will.

God's Sovereign Will is everpresent and always ready to be enacted at His good pleasure...

...but He does not exercise it for absolutely every minute decision that is made by mortal man, as Calvinism purports.

If a man were to kill another man in cold blood and then refuse to come to Jesus to recieve remission of sins, this would be no contradiction to God's commandment not to murder, according to Calvinism, because God would be responsible for making that man commit murder and then blocking the notion of recieving Christ for forgiveness from his heart.

I don't see how anyone could come to the conclusion that this is how God interacts with His creation.

I expect derision; que sera sera.

Change my mind.
I agree 100%. How many times have we been engaged in the indulgence of a temptation - and suddenly are keenly aware that what we're doing separates us from the protection, provision, grace of Him Who alone is our help and salvation, and from Whom we cannot afford to be separated for a moment...and cried out for mercy to turn from temptation and to cease, desist, and obtain overcoming power to resist the next occasion of the same? That's ain't predestination...that's a good Christian common sense choice.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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Also, calvinist theology removes from man the responsibility of sin.
Why do you post these types of things? This is patently false. You expect to be taken seriously when you post falsity? You either do this knowing it's untrue or you simply are ignorant of our beliefs. It's sad you do this and also take scripture out of context to establish your errors.
Since God predestinates everything....
God is responsible for sin. Then how can a JUST GOD make US responsible for something HE predestined?

More of your misunderstandings on display.


Yes. Calvinism makes no sense at all.
John must not have known what he was saying when he said:
1 John 1:9

What a strange thing to say regarding a God that causes us to sin.

How convenient, right? Just make up what others believe then make false conclusions off of those false statements.
 

Mjh29

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Why do you post these types of things? This is patently false. You expect to be taken seriously when you post falsity? You either do this knowing it's untrue or you simply are ignorant of our beliefs. It's sad you do this and also take scripture out of context to establish your errors.


More of your misunderstandings on display.




How convenient, right? Just make up what others believe then make false conclusions off of those false statements.

But.... if they asked us what we believed, they wouldn't be able to condemn their strawman! Come on, @Preacher4Truth, where's the fun in that?
 

Preacher4Truth

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But.... if they asked us what we believed, they wouldn't be able to condemn their strawman! Come on, @Preacher4Truth, where's the fun in that?
Exactly, and how deceitful and disingenuous of them. They have to base their responses on false accusations, if not they'd have to face the truth and contextual Scripture.
 

Mjh29

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Exactly, and how deceitful and disingenuous of them. They have to base their responses on false accusations, if not they'd have to face the truth and contextual Scripture.

It is very sad indeed. Even more so when you consider that we and our other Reformed brethren are more than willing to aid others in proper exegesis.
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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When discussing biblical free will, what we're discussing is NOT philosophical freee will but libertarian free will.

Man does have libertarian free will.
Which is the ability to make a moral choice based on the fact that he could have made a different choice from the one made.
Sorry but that is also a false philosophical term.
Men make choices according to their nature.
That does not suggest the will is not bound.
 

Laish

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That is funny. So you can't just post to "Friend of " by yourself...you need back up to help you. Priceless , love it!! :D

It made my day. Thank you. Your safe now you have "the big boys" at your side.

One day all will be revealed...as to with whom the truth lays. :)
What’s wrong with friends? Or ones need for friends . Actually he is more than a friend. He is a brother as well as others here .
I love the guy he knows me and I him . It’s sad your day is made at what you perceive as a fault or a weakness . His reliance on God and his friendship to me and others is a strength. It’s not a weakness.
Blessings
Bill
 

Anthony D'Arienzo

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Also, calvinist theology removes from man the responsibility of sin.

Since God predestinates everything....
God is responsible for sin.

Then how can a JUST GOD make US responsible for something HE predestined?

Yes. Calvinism makes no sense at all.
John must not have known what he was saying when he said:
1 John 1:9

What a strange thing to say regarding a God that causes us to sin.
It looks like you are confusing what the bible describes as ordained by God, and people who are predestined to be conformed to the image of the Son.
God does not make man sin.
 

SovereignGrace

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That is funny. So you can't just post to "Friend of " by yourself...you need back up to help you. Priceless , love it!! :D

It made my day. Thank you. Your safe now you have "the big boys" at your side.

One day all will be revealed...as to with whom the truth lays. :)

And we're the hateful ones. :rolleyes:

Passive-aggressive much?
 
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SovereignGrace

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That is funny. So you can't just post to "Friend of " by yourself...you need back up to help you. Priceless , love it!! :D

It made my day. Thank you. Your safe now you have "the big boys" at your side.

One day all will be revealed...as to with whom the truth lays. :)

Are you EVER going to offer anything of substance on here, or are you going to keep flying around on your broom giving pop shot posts that offer NOTHING to the discussion?
 

SovereignGrace

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What’s wrong with friends? Or ones need for friends . Actually he is more than a friend. He is a brother as well as others here .
I love the guy he knows me and I him . It’s sad your day is made at what you perceive as a fault or a weakness . His reliance on God and his friendship to me and others is a strength. It’s not a weakness.
Blessings
Bill

Ah, pay her no mind. She loves flying around here on her broom and looking down on us mean ole Calvinists through her nose. Then when she's finished for the day, she flies to her ivory tower to sleep good at night after telling us mean ole Calvinists off. It makes her sleep better at night, youse nose?
 
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SovereignGrace

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Try context here. The Greeks were seeking him. There's a hint for you as to the reason he said what he did.



Hmm. I cannot know I'm saved for sure unless I persevere. Sort of true. Funny that you're ridiculing that since you believe the same thing yourself. If you don't keep things up, you lose your salvation. But you also gained it yourself, so it follows, that's the real "otoh" here on two accounts.

Nope, not here to change your mind, just here to discuss Scripture. In context. *Have to edit this here after further thought. Yes, I am in fact ministering the word in order to see, by God's grace, minds changed, which is literally repentance. This is why we preach, teach, so the attempt to ridicule such an effort is rather shallow, nor well thought out to be honest. That said I'll leave my initial comment.

This, using context is something you absolutely refuse to do yourself. Why? Because doing so refutes your belief system, so, you avoid it.

I'm also here to stand against and refute errors such as yours and many others.

"Calling on the name of the LORD" is not a formula for salvation.

Sorry, you're wrong yet again. You're misusing the text.

No one does anything for salvation, but you think you've done it yourself, but, in fact, you cannot and therefore have not. You simply read things into texts with your presuppositions.

"Calling on the name of the LORD" is not speaking of an act for salvation, nor an incantation or formula that if done results in salvation.

Study out its meaning in Scripture instead of the kneejerk reacting and reading into it what's not there, which, by the way, goes against the balance of Scripture and Gospel truth. I know what it entails, and it's not a sinners prayer. No need to reduce and mitigate its truth in that manner.

The fact God shows no partiality has zero to do with the fact he elects to salvation. Wonder what it really means?

Here's a hint: Context.

I also have to address this, you said: "EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED. FOR THERE IS NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. Romans 2:11"

The above is NOT what Romans 2:11 says, and I just noticed how you made it appear that's what it says. You added to the verse to make it appear it says that by adding the first 12 words. Not sure why you went and did that, but, you did, and frankly that's not cool at all. You've totally misrepresented the truth with that one. It's really shameful, please stop mishandling the word in that way. Read 2 Corinthians 2:17 and 2 Corinthians 4:1-5.

It's like using "God is no respecter of persons" to dismiss election. It's rather foolish, and many do it. The issue? It's ripped out of context.

Find out what it really means (that he shows no partiality.) It's not a text to pit against other texts that prove God elects to salvation as if it neutralizes this fact. 2 Timothy 2:15 is in order and you're failing to implement that because you refuse to use context.

She said God has conditions. Correct, and the Christ met every one of them for His sheep when He lived a sinless life, hung, bled, and died and resurrected from the grave three days later. Nothing needs to be added or subtracted from this biblical truth. :)
 

SovereignGrace

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What’s wrong with friends? Or ones need for friends . Actually he is more than a friend. He is a brother as well as others here .
I love the guy he knows me and I him . It’s sad your day is made at what you perceive as a fault or a weakness . His reliance on God and his friendship to me and others is a strength. It’s not a weakness.
Blessings
Bill

Notice this...

We have a couple Modalists on here who deny the Trinity. The non-Calvinists 'like' post after post from them. Why? They believe in free will. Forget that these two Modalists are denying TWO Persons in the Godhead. There's room at the foot of the cross for these differences of opinion, right?

Let an Arianist come on here and say that the Christ is not God. If they believed in free will, the same non-Calvinists would 'like' post after post. Why? Because they believed in free will and there's room at the foot of the cross for these disagreements, right?

Then we have a Church of Cult on here who believes if your church doesn't have "Church of Cult meets here", and have been waterboarded...err..baptized, they're going to hell. They 'like' post after post from him, too. Why? He holds to free will and there is room at the foot of the cross for disagreements, right?

Then let a Calvinist come on here and say man's will is not free but bound to his nature, and they dump on him/her, call them lost, reprobate, all sorts of nasty things. There's plenty room at the foot of the cross for everyone but Calvinists.
 
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brakelite

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There's plenty room at the foot of the cross for everyone but Calvinists.
But contrarywise, according to Calvinists there is only room at the foot of the cross for Calvinists because everyone else is following a false gospel.
 
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