Total adherence to Calvinism makes God the author of evil

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SovereignGrace

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The "we" being Calvinists, to the exclusion of others here?

No, we being all true believers. One rides on an airplane but doesn't know all the details in how to operate it. Listen, none of us has perfect knowledge of salvation. We all have come to our beliefs via studying the scriptures. I know MANY non-Calvinists who lived way godlier than I do.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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Notice this...

We have a couple Modalists on here who deny the Trinity. The non-Calvinists 'like' post after post from them. Why? They believe in free will. Forget that these two Modalists are denying TWO Persons in the Godhead. There's room at the foot of the cross for these differences of opinion, right?

Let an Arianist come on here and say that the Christ is not God. If they believed in free will, the same non-Calvinists would 'like' post after post. Why? Because they believed in free will and there's room at the foot of the cross for these disagreements, right?

Then we have a Church of Cult on here who believes if your church doesn't have "Church of Cult meets here", and have been waterboarded...err..baptized, they're going to hell. They 'like' post after post from him, too. Why? He holds to free will and there is room at the foot of the cross for disagreements, right?

Then let a Calvinist come on here and say man's will is not free but bound to his nature, and they dump on him/her, call them lost, reprobate, all sorts of nasty things. There's plenty room at the foot of the cross for everyone but Calvinists.
I wouldn't worry about it at all. They're only proving the fact men are not free in their will until in Christ and act out according to their fleshly nature. Thus all their insults, bearing false witness and mishandling the word of truth.
 

Mjh29

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Notice this...

We have a couple Modalists on here who deny the Trinity. The non-Calvinists 'like' post after post from them. Why? They believe in free will. Forget that these two Modalists are denying TWO Persons in the Godhead. There's room at the foot of the cross for these differences of opinion, right?

Let an Arianist come on here and say that the Christ is not God. If they believed in free will, the same non-Calvinists would 'like' post after post. Why? Because they believed in free will and there's room at the foot of the cross for these disagreements, right?

Then we have a Church of Cult on here who believes if your church doesn't have "Church of Cult meets here", and have been waterboarded...err..baptized, they're going to hell. They 'like' post after post from him, too. Why? He holds to free will and there is room at the foot of the cross for disagreements, right?

Then let a Calvinist come on here and say man's will is not free but bound to his nature, and they dump on him/her, call them lost, reprobate, all sorts of nasty things. There's plenty room at the foot of the cross for everyone but Calvinists.
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Laish

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But contrarywise, according to Calvinists there is only room at the foot of the cross for Calvinists because everyone else is following a false gospel.
That is completely false . The Reformed view is not that at all . Calvin himself said he knew of Catholics that were saved . Others through history have held to the view it was a work of God that one is saved and not through congregational membership or their soteriology . Note how one comes to their conclusions is the sticking point not if one is Reformed or not .
If it were so it becomes a works salvation.
Blessings
Bill
 
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Laish

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The "we" being Calvinists, to the exclusion of others here?
No . Not at all . Try reading what Calvinist teach , you will see what you have said here is wrong .
Try to get a truthful understanding of what you are refuting before you say you disagree with something that dose not exist. Honestly if you knew anything about the Reformed view of soteriology you would be embarrassed by such a off base statement.
Blessings
Bill
 
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Enoch111

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Try reading what Calvinist teach , you will see what you have said here is wrong .
Well there is no doubt that (1) Calvinists believe that they are of the company of "the elect", and chosen for salvation, (2) Christ's atoning work is limited to the salvation of "the elect", and (3) any exposure of Calvinism as a false gospel must mean that those opposed to it are evil and teach heresy.

And as we can see in these various threads, the biblical objections are not being directly addressed, but ad hominem statements are being made over and over again.

What you should be concerning yourself with is the heresy that Christ died ONLY FOR the elect. That seriously contradicts the words of Christ Himself.

JOHN 3

14 And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up: [which also corresponds to John 12:32 which says "And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.]
15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.


This one passage -- which is the recorded words of Christ -- thoroughly refutes Calvinism, so why don't you believe it and reject that FALSE GOSPEL?
 

Jane_Doe22

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No, we being all true believers. One rides on an airplane but doesn't know all the details in how to operate it. Listen, none of us has perfect knowledge of salvation. We all have come to our beliefs via studying the scriptures. I know MANY non-Calvinists who lived way godlier than I do.
In other for the bolded to be true, you must have free will.
 
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Preacher4Truth

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In other for the bolded to be true, you must have free will.
Nope. This is post conversion not pre. He's speaking 1 Corinthians 2:14 concerning those who are the antithesis to the text.

None are free in any sense until in Christ; John 8:36.

None are saved by their will, and Scripture is clear on this. All are saved by grace, not merit via choosing. Those who do not believe in the true Christ, that He is "I am He..." will die in their sins, John 8:24, even if they believe they're saved or God's people. You do not believe who Christ claimed to be.

The pressing issue in your case: a false created Mormon Christ is not the true Messiah and such cannot save.
 

GodsGrace

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Try context here. The Greeks were seeking him. There's a hint for you as to the reason he said what he did.



Hmm. I cannot know I'm saved for sure unless I persevere. Sort of true. Funny that you're ridiculing that since you believe the same thing yourself. If you don't keep things up, you lose your salvation. But you also gained it yourself, so it follows, that's the real "otoh" here on two accounts.

Nope, not here to change your mind, just here to discuss Scripture. In context. *Have to edit this here after further thought. Yes, I am in fact ministering the word in order to see, by God's grace, minds changed, which is literally repentance. This is why we preach, teach, so the attempt to ridicule such an effort is rather shallow, nor well thought out to be honest. That said I'll leave my initial comment.

This, using context is something you absolutely refuse to do yourself. Why? Because doing so refutes your belief system, so, you avoid it.

I'm also here to stand against and refute errors such as yours and many others.

"Calling on the name of the LORD" is not a formula for salvation.

Sorry, you're wrong yet again. You're misusing the text.

No one does anything for salvation, but you think you've done it yourself, but, in fact, you cannot and therefore have not. You simply read things into texts with your presuppositions.

"Calling on the name of the LORD" is not speaking of an act for salvation, nor an incantation or formula that if done results in salvation.

Study out its meaning in Scripture instead of the kneejerk reacting and reading into it what's not there, which, by the way, goes against the balance of Scripture and Gospel truth. I know what it entails, and it's not a sinners prayer. No need to reduce and mitigate its truth in that manner.

The fact God shows no partiality has zero to do with the fact he elects to salvation. Wonder what it really means?

Here's a hint: Context.

I also have to address this, you said: "EVERYONE WHO CALLS ON THE NAME OF THE LORD WILL BE SAVED. FOR THERE IS NO PARTIALITY WITH GOD. Romans 2:11"

The above is NOT what Romans 2:11 says, and I just noticed how you made it appear that's what it says. You added to the verse to make it appear it says that by adding the first 12 words. Not sure why you went and did that, but, you did, and frankly that's not cool at all. You've totally misrepresented the truth with that one. It's really shameful, please stop mishandling the word in that way. Read 2 Corinthians 2:17 and 2 Corinthians 4:1-5.

It's like using "God is no respecter of persons" to dismiss election. It's rather foolish, and many do it. The issue? It's ripped out of context.

Find out what it really means (that he shows no partiality.) It's not a text to pit against other texts that prove God elects to salvation as if it neutralizes this fact. 2 Timothy 2:15 is in order and you're failing to implement that because you refuse to use context.
Why do you constantly address me as if you know me spiritually-wise?
Could you just address the verses I post?
you've used enough verbs up above to last the rest of my stay here.
On some other forums you'd be gone by now...

1. YOU don't know if you'll persevere because God has to MAKE YOU persevere.
I, OTOH, can know that I do NOT want to abandon God,,,ever. So it would seem I do have an advantage over your theology.

2. If you feel I don't use context,,,please show how or why. I've asked you this once before. There is no use in offending me...just show me, please.

3. You said calling on the name of the Lord is not a formula for salvation. Since the bible states that it is and I gave you the verses....could you kindly explain why it is NOT and provide verses.

4. My dear sir,,,,I am not the one with presuppositions. The idea that God chooses persons for heaven and hell was NEVER EVEN THOUGH OF in the church UNTIL the year 1,500 AD.

It would seem thusly, that YOU are the one coming to the bible with a presupposition. No one reading the bible on their own could possibly come up with your theology.

5. Regarding Romans 2:11 which states that there is no partiality with God, you've replied:

"The above is NOT what Romans 2:11 says, and I just noticed how you made it appear that's what it says. You added to the verse to make it appear it says that by adding the first 12 words. Not sure why you went and did that, but, you did, and frankly that's not cool at all. You've totally misrepresented the truth with that one. It's really shameful, please stop mishandling the word in that way. Read 2 Corinthians 2:17 and 2 Corinthians 4:1-5."

Could you please explain what YOU think the above means?
There is no partiality with God means God will TREAT ALL THE SAME.
NOT send some to heaven and some to hell for no reason at all except His pleasure to torture some.

And YOU tell me what 2 Corinthians 2:17 and 2 Corinthians 4:1-5 means.
Do I tell YOU to run to read verses or do I post them and explain my understanding of them?

Then you mention 2 Timothy 2:15 and again tell me I don't use context.
Is this what you do?
Just repeat that people don't use context so you don't have to engage in exegeting verses???

PICK A VERSE
2 Timothy 2:15
Romans 2:11

Tell us how YOU exegete it please.

Thanks.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Nope. This is post conversion not pre. He's speaking 1 Corinthians 2:14 concerning those who are the antithesis to the text.

None are free in any sense until in Christ; John 8:36.

None are saved by their will, and Scripture is clear on this. All are saved by grace, not merit via choosing. Those who do not believe in the true Christ, that He is "I am He..." will die in their sins, John 8:24, even if they believe they're saved or God's people. You do not believe who Christ claimed to be.

The pressing issue in your case: a false created Mormon Christ is not the true Messiah and such cannot save.
Dude: if you, a Calvinist, have issue with the fact that I'm not a Calvinist, then you can blame the only being that has any culpability in Calvinist beliefs: God.
 

GodsGrace

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Nope. This is post conversion not pre. He's speaking 1 Corinthians 2:14 concerning those who are the antithesis to the text.

None are free in any sense until in Christ; John 8:36.

None are saved by their will, and Scripture is clear on this. All are saved by grace, not merit via choosing. Those who do not believe in the true Christ, that He is "I am He..." will die in their sins, John 8:24, even if they believe they're saved or God's people. You do not believe who Christ claimed to be.

The pressing issue in your case: a false created Mormon Christ is not the true Messiah and such cannot save.
Please explain what John 8:36 means instead of just posting it and making some light comment which means nonthing?

What does Jesus free us to or from?
 

GodsGrace

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Nope. This is post conversion not pre. He's speaking 1 Corinthians 2:14 concerning those who are the antithesis to the text.

None are free in any sense until in Christ; John 8:36.

None are saved by their will, and Scripture is clear on this. All are saved by grace, not merit via choosing. Those who do not believe in the true Christ, that He is "I am He..." will die in their sins, John 8:24, even if they believe they're saved or God's people. You do not believe who Christ claimed to be.

The pressing issue in your case: a false created Mormon Christ is not the true Messiah and such cannot save.
Scripture is clear that we are not saved by our will?
Again, no scripture.

Is that YOUR opinion, or did you read that in the bible or did you read that in the institutes or did you learn it in your church?

We here like to use the bible for proof texts.
 

Laish

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What you should be concerning yourself with is the heresy that Christ died ONLY FOR the elect. That seriously contradicts the words of Christ Himself.
Wow who teaches that? If you think Calvinist your wrong and are showing ignorance or your just setting up straw men to promote your understanding.
I think it’s out of ignorance try reading what Reformed theology teaches before you embarrass your self more .
Blessings
Bill
 

Preacher4Truth

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Scripture is clear that we are not saved by our will?
Again, no scripture.

Is that YOUR opinion, or did you read that in the bible or did you read that in the institutes or did you learn it in your church?

We here like to use the bible for proof texts.

Believers are saved by grace, Ephesians 2:8-10. You on the other hand think you merited salvation by choosing. You should congratulate yourself.

I've provided scripture denying this in the past, but you reject contextual scripture. John 1:13 is just one example, but you'll find a way around it, and pit a verse or several, out of context of course, against said truth. You believe you saved yourself by choosing, which is merit, and can never be grace, which is unmerited. But you don't believe nor do you understand the Gospel, you think it's about what you did to get into heaven.
 
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GodsGrace

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Wow who teaches that? If you think Calvinist your wrong and are showing ignorance or your just setting up straw men to promote your understanding.
I think it’s out of ignorance try reading what Reformed theology teaches before you embarrass your self more .
Blessings
Bill
@Enoch111 is 100% correct.

Do you know about Limited Atonement?

The atonement, according to calvinism, is LIMITED to only THE ELECT.

Of course, we must understand who the elect are.

According to calvinism...it's those special persons that God chose among all of humanity to be saved from hell.

The rest of humanity is going straight to hell through no fault of their own.
However, calvinists DO believe that God is loving and just.

Maybe you'd like to tell us YOUR version and WHY you think @Enoch111 is wrong, instead of just saying so. It seems like some like doing this: saying someone is wrong but not saying WHY.
 

Jane_Doe22

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Oh that was a good one!
LOL
My comment wasn't really meant as a joke.
In Calvinism, God is the only being with free will, and hence any culpability. When "born a slave to sin" is interpreted to mean that a person literally lacks free will to accept God's gift of salvation, then God is the only person that has any culpability. He is designer of a system where many many people are created just to be tortured for eternity. Even those that are sent to heaven are also slaves in a fancier prison, as they still lack free will to say "no thank you". Everyone's fate is forced.

As a person who have been forced by another (#MeToo), the Calvinist notion of deity is... downright repulsive. There is no love in force. No 'marriage' where one partner forced themselves on another is ever true love-- no matter how fancy of a house they live in or how fancy stuff they fill that house with.
 
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Enoch111

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I think it’s out of ignorance try reading what Reformed theology teaches before you embarrass your self more.
Bill, it looks like you are the one who is ignorant of Reformed Theology. So here are the exact quotes from the Westminster Confession which say that Christ died only for those whom God had given Him (the so-called "elect"), and only those are the ones who are "effectually called":

Westminster Confession of Faith
Chapter VIII Of Christ the Mediator
V. The Lord Jesus, by His perfect obedience, and sacrifice of Himself, which He through the eternal Spirit, once offered up unto God, has fully satisfied the justice of His Father; and purchased, not only reconciliation, but an everlasting inheritance in the kingdom of heaven, for those whom the Father has given unto Him.
Chapter X Of Effectual Calling
I. All those whom God hath predestinated unto life, and those only, He is pleased, in His appointed time, effectually to call, by His Word and Spirit, out of that state of sin and death, in which they are by nature to grace and salvation, by Jesus Christ; enlightening their minds spiritually and savingly to understand the things of God, taking away their heart of stone, and giving unto them an heart of flesh; renewing their wills, and, by His almighty power, determining them to that which is good, and effectually drawing them to Jesus Christ:yet so, as they come most freely, being made willing by His grace.

This makes a mockery of the Gospel, where God commands ALL MEN EVERYWHERE TO REPENT (Acts 17:30). Which means that if all would repent, all would be saved.
 
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Laish

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Yes I get that let me back up and say my post was clumsy I should have addressed it from Calvin’s treatment my apologies. I tend to approach it from its affect yes your correct. When Calvinist called it limited . If not then are not all saved , even those that never heard
I will leave the post there and not delete it apologies again
Blessings
Bill