2 Timothy 3

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stunnedbygrace

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I see these behaviors in this forum. I don't want to pick out the topics/threads that I see these behaviors in - that's not my goal. But I do see them in very particular threads.

A lack of love and hearts not tender to anyone. And a form of godliness but a viciousness and lack of love. The passage doesn't say viciousness, it says fierceness.

It's that last verse in the passage that gets me. They appear to have a form of godliness.

When I run across them, I have great confusion. They want to be heard over and over again on one or two particular topics and they don't seem to display any love or warmth whatsoever. And yet they are here, day after day, and I have great confusion over WHY they are here.

And then there's always the thought: well..,maybe they are just young and God has not yet worked any virtue into them yet. Maybe they have not had a bad fall yet and so they can't see their behavior as being prideful and insolent and mocking and unlovely.

But when I see them daily over the course of some amount of time and I see the things growing in them that should be decreasing in them, and see their defenses of their behaviors (like calling a complete lack of love to be "tough love"), I come to the conclusion that they only have a form of godliness and cannot possibly have received the Holy Spirit because He softens hearts. He doesn't further harden them.

But I'm still confused as to what draws them here every day. I know everyone is not going to be exactly like me, but before I met God and received the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't have caught me anywhere NEAR a place like this forum. There would have been zero desire to be here...
 

Episkopos

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Denying the power. How does one deny the power? By denying God's power or provision towards us. By making this about us and what we can do rather than that we can do ALL things through Christ who strengthens us by grace. Any mention of His supernatural grace in us and many will take offense...thinking that it is anything but what God is doing. So they testify of a lack of power in their own lives.

Where is the focus? Are we in wonder at the power of God in us and in others? Or are we diminishing the value of the testimony in the bible and in the lives of others to mean something that we are already doing...and failing to do in our own power?

i see it as pride on the part of the incredulous who think that they who testify to His great power in a walk that is not of us...are just making things up.

I think the people spoken of in the bible get idolized to the point where they are not seeing that these are just ordinary people but walking with an extra-ordinary God.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Well, I was there, what you just described epi. And this was AFTER I had met God and received the Holy Spirit. I was there, but it's hard to explain WHY I was there. It seems it wasn't one thing but a combination of things.

For one, I had a pride issue, unbeknownst to me, where I just kept thinking (whenever I would snap off on someone in resentment, etc.) I need to try harder to be good, that's all. But it was also not just a pride problem but also...a lack of understanding and a lack of trust, thinking God would not, or could not, do this for me (make me better, kinder, more loving and forgiving.) There was also a sense of wanting to save my life by proving I could make it better instead of giving up my life.

It was just...a mishmash of problems
 
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Nancy

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I see these behaviors in this forum. I don't want to pick out the topics/threads that I see these behaviors in - that's not my goal. But I do see them in very particular threads.

A lack of love and hearts not tender to anyone. And a form of godliness but a viciousness and lack of love. The passage doesn't say viciousness, it says fierceness.

It's that last verse in the passage that gets me. They appear to have a form of godliness.

When I run across them, I have great confusion. They want to be heard over and over again on one or two particular topics and they don't seem to display any love or warmth whatsoever. And yet they are here, day after day, and I have great confusion over WHY they are here.

And then there's always the thought: well..,maybe they are just young and God has not yet worked any virtue into them yet. Maybe they have not had a bad fall yet and so they can't see their behavior as being prideful and insolent and mocking and unlovely.

But when I see them daily over the course of some amount of time and I see the things growing in them that should be decreasing in them, and see their defenses of their behaviors (like calling a complete lack of love to be "tough love"), I come to the conclusion that they only have a form of godliness and cannot possibly have received the Holy Spirit because He softens hearts. He doesn't further harden them.

But I'm still confused as to what draws them here every day. I know everyone is not going to be exactly like me, but before I met God and received the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't have caught me anywhere NEAR a place like this forum. There would have been zero desire to be here...

Verse 7 speaks volumes about the sort who think they are oh, so smart. They might be highly intelligent but, it is still only man's intelligence: 7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
And the "form of Godliness" Pfft! They can "seem" as pious as they want as they deny the Power of God through us. In their minds, if it does not happen to them, then everyone else is full of horse puckey!
As to why they come here everyday, I think it is because Satan sends them to us in every-way possible, and what better than an online Christian community or a Church? And, his fiery darts are never ending! Hmm...should we hire an exorcist?? Ahahaha! j/k. ♥
 

stunnedbygrace

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Further thought -
I at first, couldn't see what was in me. Couldn't see just how bad it was.

Then, I began to see how bad it was, but the problem was I could see how bad it was in OTHERS, but not so much myself. So the result was that I railed at their faults and thought of myself as much better.

Then, I began to see that I was just like all those I railed against in my mind...
 

Nancy

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Further thought -
I at first, couldn't see what was in me. Couldn't see just how bad it was.

Then, I began to see how bad it was, but the problem was I could see how bad it was in OTHERS, but not so much myself. So the result was that I railed at their faults and thought of myself as much better.

Then, I began to see that I was just like all those I railed against in my mind...
Sister, our stories here could be interchangeable, For sure!
 

stunnedbygrace

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Further thought -
I at first, couldn't see what was in me. Couldn't see just how bad it was.

Then, I began to see how bad it was, but the problem was I could see how bad it was in OTHERS, but not so much myself. So the result was that I railed at their faults and thought of myself as much better.

Then, I began to see that I was just like all those I railed against in my mind...

BUT, even though I could then see I was just like others, I still was caught in a vicious cycle of trying to fix myself by hard effort and trying to make my behavior better, then cycling into depression over my failure, then dragging myself out of the depression and resolving to try again, etc. Same vicious pattern.

I did have one "success." I managed to get better at keeping it inside. But at some point, I realized that was just a load of bull, because my inside was still muttering and murdering, so my "success" was not a success. Who cares if I manage to hide my murders from others When God sees them? Am I looking for the approval of men or of God?

And the "success" was not ever very longlived. Because if you keep stuffing poison down your throat little bit by little bit, it might take some time, but eventually, you're going to have an episode of projectile vomiting so severe that it will splatter everyone in range of you.

And that's kind of a good way to spot a person who is stuck in trying to perfect themselves rather than depending on God in utter poverty - there will be an explosion that leaves everyone scratching their heads and asking why such a small thing caused such an explosion.
 

Episkopos

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BUT, even though I could then see I was just like others, I still was caught in a vicious cycle of trying to fix myself by hard effort and trying to make my behavior better, then cycling into depression over my failure, then dragging myself out of the depression and resolving to try again, etc. Same vicious pattern.

I did have one "success." I managed to get better at keeping it inside. But at some point, I realized that was just a load of bull, because my inside was still muttering and murdering, so my "success" was not a success. Who cares if I manage to hide my murders from others When God sees them? Am I looking for the approval of men or of God?

And the "success" was not ever very longlived. Because if you keep stuffing poison down your throat little bit by little bit, it might take some time, but eventually, you're going to have an episode of projectile vomiting so severe that it will splatter everyone in range of you.

And that's kind of a good way to spot a person who is stuck in trying to perfect themselves rather than depending on God in utter poverty - there will be an explosion that leaves everyone scratching their heads and asking why such a small thing caused such an explosion.
Trying to tame the flesh is like compressing a big spring. When you run out of strength...and at the most inopportune time...that spring is going to release all it's tension in an instant. Better to get out of the way when that happens.

Who can tame their own flesh?

The cross of Christ does it better and completely. And there is a new kind of life waiting to replace that old pesky flesh life...the grace to walk in the Spirit. :)
 

Nancy

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BUT, even though I could then see I was just like others, I still was caught in a vicious cycle of trying to fix myself by hard effort and trying to make my behavior better, then cycling into depression over my failure, then dragging myself out of the depression and resolving to try again, etc. Same vicious pattern.

I did have one "success." I managed to get better at keeping it inside. But at some point, I realized that was just a load of bull, because my inside was still muttering and murdering, so my "success" was not a success. Who cares if I manage to hide my murders from others When God sees them? Am I looking for the approval of men or of God?

And the "success" was not ever very longlived. Because if you keep stuffing poison down your throat little bit by little bit, it might take some time, but eventually, you're going to have an episode of projectile vomiting so severe that it will splatter everyone in range of you.

And that's kind of a good way to spot a person who is stuck in trying to perfect themselves rather than depending on God in utter poverty - there will be an explosion that leaves everyone scratching their heads and asking why such a small thing caused such an explosion.

Very well put.
It was the very same vicious cycle with me too Stunned. I did that for 4 years and was the most miserable and depressed person I knew, not to mention very draining. For me, it was total surrender with tears of despair and anguish a little over 4 yrs now that opened my eyes WIDE. Literally on my face on the rug in my bedroom did I reach out to Him and opened my hands wide for Him to take away the hopelessness I had. Never been the same since that day a bit over 4 years ago. In the 90's - I faked it to make it as, I had no understanding and also still clung to my sin. In my mind back then, I just could not understand WHY He was not changing me!! So, I walked away for years...never comfortable in doing that but, I thought I was def a hopeless case.
It was not until I got so low and got on my face that I heard loud and clear (in my spirit) "MY GRACE IS SUFFICIENT FOR YOU" ...and, it is more than sufficient. I would love to give my whole testimony on here but, I will only do that with those I trust and believe will, at least a little, understand.
Sometimes He brings us to our end so that the only place to reach is up because you can get no lower. ♥
 

Nancy

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Trying to tame the flesh is like compressing a big spring. When you run out of strength...and at the most inopportune time...that spring is going to release all it's tension in an instant. Better to get out of the way when that happens.

Who can tame their own flesh?

The cross of Christ does it better and completely. And there is a new kind of life waiting to replace that old pesky flesh life...the grace to walk in the Spirit. :)

Great analogy that. Ha, a big spring...perfect. Or, a pressure cooker unattended, lol.
 

stunnedbygrace

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Yes, Nancy, same here, mostly. I just gave up trying to be good and said, if its to be done, You will have to do it, I'm done trying. I can't do it.

I did have a time I walked away for a few months, prior to that. He showed me something of His glory and His immensity. I couldn't stand and I don't know how long it lasted, but I begged Him at some point to stop or I would die. It made me afraid of Him and uncomfortable and I just...tried to go back to the world for about two months, but it didn't work. I couldn't run away from Him. I wanted Him even if it killed me.
 

faithfulness

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Yes, Nancy, same here, mostly. I just gave up trying to be good and said, if its to be done, You will have to do it, I'm done trying. I can't do it.

I did have a time I walked away for a few months, prior to that. He showed me something of His glory and His immensity. I couldn't stand and I don't know how long it lasted, but I begged Him at some point to stop or I would die. It made me afraid of Him and uncomfortable and I just...tried to go back to the world for about two months, but it didn't work. I couldn't run away from Him. I wanted Him even if it killed me.
Wow. Awesome sbg! A woman after God's own heart!
 

Heart2Soul

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I see these behaviors in this forum. I don't want to pick out the topics/threads that I see these behaviors in - that's not my goal. But I do see them in very particular threads.

A lack of love and hearts not tender to anyone. And a form of godliness but a viciousness and lack of love. The passage doesn't say viciousness, it says fierceness.

It's that last verse in the passage that gets me. They appear to have a form of godliness.

When I run across them, I have great confusion. They want to be heard over and over again on one or two particular topics and they don't seem to display any love or warmth whatsoever. And yet they are here, day after day, and I have great confusion over WHY they are here.

And then there's always the thought: well..,maybe they are just young and God has not yet worked any virtue into them yet. Maybe they have not had a bad fall yet and so they can't see their behavior as being prideful and insolent and mocking and unlovely.

But when I see them daily over the course of some amount of time and I see the things growing in them that should be decreasing in them, and see their defenses of their behaviors (like calling a complete lack of love to be "tough love"), I come to the conclusion that they only have a form of godliness and cannot possibly have received the Holy Spirit because He softens hearts. He doesn't further harden them.

But I'm still confused as to what draws them here every day. I know everyone is not going to be exactly like me, but before I met God and received the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't have caught me anywhere NEAR a place like this forum. There would have been zero desire to be here...
For years I have prayed Psalm 51:10 over my life as well as asking God to reveal any hidden fault dwelling in my heart. Last year is when He began to deal with "spiritual" pride. He showed me how I did well to minister to those asking for prayer but it was how I perceived their walk with Him less than mine because they lacked understanding in scripture.
When I first joined the Christian Forum I was continually arguing with others whose beliefs were different than mine and would get so angry with their defiance to even consider my beliefs.
As the Holy Spirit began dealing with me about my attitude towards others of different beliefs I began to realize there is only ONE who can open the eyes and understanding of those still growing.....the Holy Spirit....the Spirit of Truth.
So I have come to accept we are all still growing and learning from Him. And God knows when we are ready to move deeper in the knowledge of Him.
As His Word says.....some plant, some water, but it is God who gives the increase.
 
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amadeus

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Verse 7 speaks volumes about the sort who think they are oh, so smart. They might be highly intelligent but, it is still only man's intelligence: 7 "Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth."
And the "form of Godliness" Pfft! They can "seem" as pious as they want as they deny the Power of God through us. In their minds, if it does not happen to them, then everyone else is full of horse puckey!
As to why they come here everyday, I think it is because Satan sends them to us in every-way possible, and what better than an online Christian community or a Church? And, his fiery darts are never ending! Hmm...should we hire an exorcist?? Ahahaha! j/k. ♥
Perhaps Saul become Paul is one of the best example in scripture. He was a well educated man, educated in the scriptures themselves and with all of that knowledge he was nothing in the sight of God. Until he met Jesus on the road to Damascus how well did all of his knowledge help anyone much less please God. But then all of that dead flesh of Jesus he had consumed was brought to Life and he was enabled through the Holy Spirit to write epistles which today are in all of our Bibles.

How many of our well educated fellows in the Bible even on this forum need also a "road to Damascus" experience. Is that not how Jesus words here will be fulfilled?

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father." John 14:12
 
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brakelite

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KJV Jeremiah 17
9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

That heart... The mind... Is the source and spring from which all evil comes. I have heard over the years many scoffers that decry Christians as having to lean on crutches in order to cope with life. Those crutches presumably being faith and religion. But crutches are utterly useless to bring any assistance whatsoever to the human condition. Only a total heart transplant will accomplish what is needed for man to live. A complete renewing of the mind. Day by Day dying to self, submitting ourselves to the spirit of God... One day at a time growing in grace and partaking of the divine nature.
It is by beholding we become changed. If our idols are clothed in human attributes and given human passions... Then we shall never rise above that which we have created as our hope and standard... But if we continuously behold Christ...
KJV Hebrews 3
Christ Is Superior to Moses
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;
2 Who was faithful to him that appointed him, as also Moses was faithful in all his house.
3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house...
...
6 But Christ as a son over his own house; whose house are we, if we hold fast the confidence and the rejoicing of the hope firm unto the end.

KJV Hebrews 12
Look to Christ and Persevere in Faith
1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
2 Looking unto Jesus the author and finisher of our faith; who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is set down at the right hand of the throne of God.
3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.
 
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ScottA

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I see these behaviors in this forum. I don't want to pick out the topics/threads that I see these behaviors in - that's not my goal. But I do see them in very particular threads.

A lack of love and hearts not tender to anyone. And a form of godliness but a viciousness and lack of love. The passage doesn't say viciousness, it says fierceness.

It's that last verse in the passage that gets me. They appear to have a form of godliness.

When I run across them, I have great confusion. They want to be heard over and over again on one or two particular topics and they don't seem to display any love or warmth whatsoever. And yet they are here, day after day, and I have great confusion over WHY they are here.

And then there's always the thought: well..,maybe they are just young and God has not yet worked any virtue into them yet. Maybe they have not had a bad fall yet and so they can't see their behavior as being prideful and insolent and mocking and unlovely.

But when I see them daily over the course of some amount of time and I see the things growing in them that should be decreasing in them, and see their defenses of their behaviors (like calling a complete lack of love to be "tough love"), I come to the conclusion that they only have a form of godliness and cannot possibly have received the Holy Spirit because He softens hearts. He doesn't further harden them.

But I'm still confused as to what draws them here every day. I know everyone is not going to be exactly like me, but before I met God and received the Holy Spirit, you wouldn't have caught me anywhere NEAR a place like this forum. There would have been zero desire to be here...
This is the fulfillment of God pouring His spirit out, not on some, but on "all flesh", spoken by Joel the prophet, promised by Jesus, and confirmed by Peter. By the mouth of two or three. By which all things good and evil are made manifest until the end.

They are here..."For wherever the carcass is, there the eagles will be gathered together."

Nonetheless, God works all things together for good for those who love Him.
 
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ScottA

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I didn't quite follow you there Scott.
God pouring out his spirit upon all flesh (on the evil as well as the good) has manifest "a form of godliness" in some during these times, that is anything but His will.

Was there something specific that you are not following?
 

stunnedbygrace

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Oh...I'm trying to grasp your thought there and I'm sort of understanding you now but at the same time my mind is shrieking, no way! God pouring out His Spirit on a man does not have the effect that a man just pretends to be good!