Anthony D'Arienzo
Well-Known Member
So..all the puritans,reformers, Spurgeon and others
Have missed it? They should have read your posts rather than the greek texts...I see
All the ELECT please stand up
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Have missed it? They should have read your posts rather than the greek texts...I see
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
And yet you've attained a status that even Apostle Paul never attained.
For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man, but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death? Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.[Romans 7:14-25]
Paul is talking about living in his flesh. In the flesh, it caused him, and us to this day, fits. We have a warfare going in where the flesh and spirit are at war with each other. This battle will wage on until the day we die. Notice how Paul said "Wretched man that I am! He saw the sinfulness in his life. And this coming from a man who saw the Christ, spoke to Him, and even penned 13 of the NT books we love and cherish.
It is a trustworthy statement, deserving full acceptance, that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners, among whom I am foremost of all.[1 Timothy 1:15]
He even addressed this is Galatians 5. He didn't consider himself any more than a sinner saved by grace.
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SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
I'm still trying to find Jacob's ladder on here. Apparently there are some who are climbing up and coming back down it, and some even attained a perfect righteousness.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
"Evil Paul"? So Paul was not born again of the Spirit? He is just telling others they are dead to sin, but he isn't?
Romans 7 is NOT the life of a Christian, as verse 13 says he still has sin. Romans 8 shows us what Jesus came to do - condemn sin in the flesh. IOW to take it away, and the Spirit causes us to not be in the flesh but in the Spirit. Romans 8:9
What would happen if you read scripture in the context it was meant to be understood? Would the Reformed church kick you out?
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Lord Jesus described a part of His Essence which is the Sovereignty of God in salvation when He proclaimed "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
Example Statement 1: "I chose to believe in Jesus"
Example Statement 2: "I willpowered to follow Jesus"
Example Statement 3: "I accepted Jesus"
The three example statements above are false according to Lord Jesus (John 15:16), and each of the stetements deny the essence of Who Jesus is. The statements represent the free will doctrine.
Apart from an act of God no person can become a partaker of the kingdom of God, so says the Lord Jesus Christ in "apart from me you can do nothing" (John 15:5) and "Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God" (John 3:5).
Apart from an act of God no person can believe on the Lord Jesus Christ Whom the Father has sent (John 6:29) - this is according to Lord Jesus Christ!
LET IT BE PROCLAIMED IN NO UNCERTAIN TERMS, A PERSON ADHERING TO ANY SHAPE OF THE 3 EXAMPLE STATEMENTS ABOVE CAN NOT BE SAVED THE WORD OF GOD SAYS.
Therefore, since Christ contradictors* do not believe the words of Jesus regarding "choice" then their appeals to New Testament books to support freewill are void, for example @CharismaticLady's void appeal to 1 John 3:18-23. The Holy Spirit is required to understand the New Testament books.
*Christ contradictors include @CharismaticLady @CNKW3 @marks @GodsGrace @Enoch111 @Nancy
In your current state (because of your adherence to some form of the three example statements above), you not only deny Lord Jesus Christ which results in a penalty for which Jesus denies a person in front of the Father (Matthew 10:33), but you also attempt to steal the glory for salvation from God (Exodus 20:15 "Thou shalt not steal", Jonah 2:9, Isaiah 12:2 "God is my salvation").
God opens the eyes of the blind. God opens the ears of the deaf. God raises the dead. If you hear the Good Shepherd's voice this day, then cry out to Him for Jesus, Lord and God, saves!
The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.
These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:
- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)
- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)
- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)
The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
Correct ‘evil’ by putting ‘even’ in that post. Thanks. I didn’t catch that.
That is a Christian. Paul was showing himself a sinner saved by grace. He said the same in 1 Timothy 1:15. We all, even you, have sin. It’s in the flesh until it’s made new in the likeness of the Christ.
Oh Helen,Well @Kermos It seems that you have got it all sewn up for the rest of us.
Looks like heaven will be pretty empty eh.
Just you, ... and who else ?
Be nice.
ONLY God can know who are the chosen ones.
We po' folk just have to get ready for the hot place.
P.S. I noticed 3 or 4 threads on calvinism.
I leave for some time and the whole place falls apart!!
LOL
ByGrace, you flippantly mock the Word of God, for these words of Lord Jesus Christ are a part of the post and links to which you replied:Well @Kermos It seems that you have got it all sewn up for the rest of us.
Looks like heaven will be pretty empty eh.
Just you, ... and who else ?
"you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16)
"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven" (Matthew 10:33)
"I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me" (John 14:6)
"I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16)
"apart from Me you can do nothing" (John 15:5)
"unless you believe that I am, you will die in your sins" (John 8:24)
"Truly, truly, I say to you, unless one is born of water and the Spirit he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh, and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit" (John 3:5-6)
"But he who practices the truth comes to the Light, so that his deeds may be manifested as having been wrought in God." (John 3:21)
"This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent." (John 6:29)
"With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible." (Matthew 19:26 - in answer to the question "Then who can be saved?")
It sounds to me like you do not believe the above words of Jesus, Lord and God (John 20:28).
Again, the Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.
These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:
- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)
- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)
- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)
The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
Wrong again, GodsGrace, for Christian Truth comes from the Word of God, Who states:
15 "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
16 "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn [bushes] nor figs from thistles, are they?
17 "So every good tree bears good fruit, but the bad tree bears bad fruit.
18 "A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor can a bad tree produce good fruit.
(Matthew 7:15-18)
This puts you in the category of a wolf in sheep's clothing becuase you deny the words of Lord Jesus Christ when He said "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16).
The Word of God, quoted in the following links, reveals that freewill is a treacherously rebellious and damnable lie.
These posts of this thread remain true, accurate, legitimate, legal, and Godly:
- "The Righteous Sovereignty Of God Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience Of Lord Jesus For John 14:16 And John 15:16 Are All Dicsiples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "Matthias And Joseph In Exhibit 7 With The Lord Jesus And The Apostles 'All the Time' Post" (in this thread)
- "The Logic Statement (IF/THEN) Eliminating Any Question Of The Audience For The Supper Recorded In John Chapters 13-17 Being All Disciples In All Time Post" (in this thread)
- "The Repentance Is From God Not Conjured Up In Man By Man Post" (in this thread)
- "The Biblical Definition of Disciple Includes More People Than The 12 Apostles Post" (in this thread)
- "The Audience, Salvation, And 'I chose you' Words of Lord Jesus In John 15:16 and John 15:19 Post" (in this thread)
The Wonderful Lord Jesus says "you did not choose Me, but I chose you" (John 15:16), and Jesus, Who is Lord, says "I will ask the Father, and He will give you another Helper, that He may be with you forever" (John 14:16), and Jesus, my Lord and my God, speaks these things to all His sheep of all time, and He has chosen we believers and He has given us believers the Holy Spirit!
God is sovereign.
God is almighty.
God not only HAS but IS a lot of other attributes:
Holy
Social
Creative
Loving
Merciful
Just
Family oriented
Finite
Omnipotent
Omnipresent
Omniscient
All-Good
Faithful
This is why God was not afraid to give us free will. God is so powerful that we could never take glory away from Him...
In fact...the very act of giving us free will shows how truly powerful He is.
Why is John 15:16 so difficult for you to grasp?
1. Jesus was addressing the Disciples,, who, upon became known as His Apostles to distinguish from true disciples (us). Jesus chose THEM, which He certainly did.
2. Could you PLEASE explain to us the essence of Jesus.
3. We certainly have free will to choose God or to deny Him.
Joshua 24:15
"If it is disagreeable in your sight to serve the LORD, choose for yourselves today whom you will serve: whether the gods which your fathers served which were beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites in whose land you are living; but as for me and my house, we will serve the LORD."
Genesis 1:31
31God saw all that He had made, and behold, it was very good.
Genesis 2:17
17but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”
We see from the above verses in Genesis that God said He had made everything VERY GOOD.
Then He tells Adam not to eat the forbidden fruit.
BUT ADAM ATE IT!
Was God too weak to stop him from eating it?
OR
Is God so hateful toward mankind that HE made Adam eat it purposefully so that Adam would die spiritually?
By your theology it has to be one or the other.
Please explain.
John 15:5
4“Abide in Me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself unless it abides in the vine, so neither canyou unless you abide in Me.
5“I am the vine, you are the branches; he who abides in Me and I in him, he bears much fruit, for apart from Me you can do nothing.
I'm told context is important. Is it important to you?
In John 15:5 Jesus is speaking about bearing fruit.
He's speaking to those that are IN THE VINE...attached to HIM.
He's saying that without HIM we cannot bear fruit...
He's saying that all our strength comes from HIM.
Please read verse 4 before verse 5.
Jesus came SPECIFICALLY to set up the Kingdom of God on earth.
He speaks to this about 100 times.
In Mathew 4:17 Jesus begins His Ministry and preaches saying:
"REPENT, FOR THE KINGDOM OF HEAVEN IS AT HAND."
Please show us where in this verse the N.T. states this proclamation was ONLY for the "elect".
It's rather unfortunate that at times the clay does not want to adhere to the potter's goals.
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
CharismaticLady
Well-Known Member
You failed to take the test. The proof is in the pudding. So, are 100% of your prayers answered? If not, your doctrine may be why.
I asked @SovereignGrace , another member of the local Calvin Fan Club, if his version of Calvinism excluded other professing Christians from salvation. He assured me that my misunderstanding of Calvinism rather than a true understanding has led me to suspect such is the case. A previous question to @Preacher4Truth along the same lines elicited a similar response...both assurances having within an overt rebuke regarding my ignorance of what Calvinism actually teaches.
So now, here we have the above quotes, and I am absolutely positive I would easily be able to find many more reflecting similar views, that clearly reveal why I should have my doubts regarding previous assurances, for here we have at least two fan club members remonstrating with another Christian accusing her of
a. idolatry
b. a denial of scripture
c. a denial of Jesus Christ
d. and an inference that her status as a child of God is in doubt due her claiming to make "a decision for Christ", something I would suggest all of us must make every day lest we come under the influence of our fallen natures.
So help me please with my confusion here guys. I mean, can we legitimately call idolaters and deniers of Christ and His word, Christians in expectation of eternal life? So how does that reconcile with your oft repeated assurances (which I fully accepted at the time only upon reading certain posts had to repeat my request) , and which I have to resort to doing again? Believe me, this isn't the first time I have expressed these thoughts. And my thinking is NOT based on my misunderstanding of Calvin...it is based solely on posts such as the above which are supposedly genuine reflections of Calvinist teaching. So please, don't blame me for my questions. Blame yourselves and your own inept (if indeed that is the case) manner in which you portray Calvinist teaching.
I couldn't agree more fully with the above. This is the part of reform theology...plus the process of sanctification which you alluded to earlier, that I completely gel with.
Secondly, I commend you for the manner in which you engage others on this forum. You lack the arrogance which seems to emanate from other members of the CFC.
I am glad you posted this because I was about to question that post to. I am convinced that Paul's description of himself in that passage was of his former religious but unsaved self.
SovereignGrace
Certified Flunky
You are the one who is taking it out of context. You will not except this because you then have to concede that you have committed willful sins since being saved.
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