Faith or sin

Episkopos said:

People will reason with their own minds and say...it is impossible to fly. But in an airplane any one of us can fly. It takes no skill...just trusting in the pilot. Or people will say you are not bulletproof. But anyone who climbs into an army tank will become bulletproof...not because of any power in the person but the place where one is abiding.

So it is with Christ. We become located in Him who overcame all things...and in Him is no sin. So if we are REALLY in Him...guess what?

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Yes. People say, no, it is impossible for me to walk sinlessly. And they are right as pertains to themselves. It is impossible for any human to walk sinlessly. So do they have an accurate assessment of themselves? Yes they do - it is impossible for them.

But do they have an accurate assessment of God? No. they are looking to themselves, not to God. With God, ALL things are possible!

A snag point is over an understanding of what abiding in Him is.

stunnedbygrace said:

Yes. People say, no, it is impossible for me to walk sinlessly. And they are right as pertains to themselves. It is impossible for any human to walk sinlessly. So do they have an accurate assessment of themselves? Yes they do - it is impossible for them.

But do they have an accurate assessment of God? No. they are looking to themselves, not to God. With God, ALL things are possible!

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Haha! At this point I am just posting the same thing as you in different words, epi.

stunnedbygrace said:

A snag point is over an understanding of what abiding in Him is.

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A lot of people think abiding in Him is automatic. Then they see anyone saying it isn't automatic as saying they aren't saved.

They are quite aware of Christ abiding in them. They experience this. So even Satan himself could never convince them that Christ is not abiding in them.
He most definitely is!

So then, they assume that they too are always abiding in Christ. They think: I know Christ is in me. I know by experience this is so. And if I don't abide in Him, that would mean He isn't abiding in me and that I no longer have the Holy Spirit in me. And so they attack someone who knows, by experience, what abiding is.

But what they are not seeing is that even when we are unfaithful, He is faithful. Even if we aren't currently abiding (trusting fully), He abides in us still. He is not going to abandon us. He is going to wait until we can calm down and then teach us further.

So He will leave the 99 to go after the 1 who has wandered off from abiding.

Episkopos said:

On the level of obedience by our own strength...we know what is right and wrong...so if we do what's wrong we are not doing it as by faith....but against faith. So in that way whatever is not of faith is sin. Obedience is by faith. Doing our own thing isn't. So this is about our faith and our faithfulness in that.

On the level of holiness....anything done out of His power of perfection is a mixture of us and whatever good there is in it. So then all we can ever do to the good of ourselves is a mixture...therefore has some sin in it. It isn't perfect. But this is only on the holiness level...as in...without Me you can do nothing (perfect and holy). This is on the level of HIS faith and all that He can do through us and nothing getting in the way of that.

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Yet we know that Jesus said to his 12 " O you of little faith". Was He indicating that little faith is the slippery slop toward sin?

I read once a translation where it mentioned that the scripture which says -
"have faith and doubt not" means, 'have more faith than doubt'.

To me it all gets a bit tricky and people start checking themselves for 'all their daily sins'.

@Not me Hey, where have you gone???

"ByGrace" said:

Yet we know that Jesus said to his 12 " O you of little faith". Was He indicating that little faith is the slippery slop toward sin?

I read once a translation where it mentioned that the scripture which says -
"have faith and doubt not" means, 'have more faith than doubt'.

To me it all gets a bit tricky and people start checking themselves for 'all their daily sins'.

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It isn't necessary to examine every little pecadillo. If you aren't currently trusting Him fully, you will have many of them. But if you are trusting Him fully, not in any worries, then you are abiding in Him and when we abide in Him, we do not sin.

The apostle did not say, examine yourself for every minute sin. He said, examine yourselves to see if you really ARE in complete trust (faith.)

stunnedbygrace said:

A lot of people think abiding in Him is automatic. Then they see anyone saying it isn't automatic as saying they aren't saved.

They are quite aware of Christ abiding in them. They experience this. So even Satan himself could never convince them that Christ is not abiding in them.
He most definitely is!

So then, they assume that they too are always abiding in Christ. They think: I know Christ is in me. I know by experience this is so. And if I don't abide in Him, that would mean He isn't abiding in me and that I no longer have the Holy Spirit in me. And so they attack someone who knows, by experience, what abiding is.

But what they are not seeing is that even when we are unfaithful, He is faithful. Even if we aren't currently abiding (trusting fully), He abides in us still. He is not going to abandon us. He is going to wait until we can calm down and then teach us further.

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Whoa! Word!

stunnedbygrace said:

Haha! At this point I am just posting the same thing as you in different words, epi.

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That proves that your understanding is there....

Episkopos said:

Whoa! Word!

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Its just what you always say but in different words.

stunnedbygrace said:

The apostle did not say, examine yourself for every minute sin. He said, examine yourselves to see if you really ARE in complete trust (faith.)

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And the apostle also said, who exactly was it that God became angry with? Wasn't it those He had saved? So then, see that your hearts do not also become evil and unbelieving as theirs did and you also therefore do not enter His rest. (My paraphrase).

stunnedbygrace said:

And the apostle also said, who exactly was it that God became angry with? Wasn't it those He had saved?

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Quite the opposite. They should have been saved. But because of their unbelief they remained unsaved. Please read that passage again.

Enoch111 said:

Quite the opposite. They should have been saved. But because of their unbelief they remained unsaved. Please read that passage again.

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Should have been saved? They weren't saved when the water stood up and they passed through the sea? It didn't take extreme faith to step out under that humongous tower of water?

They had great faith in God to do that! It was their later lack of trust over and over again that displeased Him.

stunnedbygrace said:

They had great faith in God to do that! It was their later lack of trust over and over again that displeased Him.

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And we are often the same. Trust Him for saving but then later worry about food and water. So we start with trust and then don't continue.

Enoch111 said:

Quite the opposite. They should have been saved. But because of their unbelief they remained unsaved. Please read that passage again.

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Are you saying that the Israelites coming out of Egypt weren't saved? This is a common error.

You would have to understand that there is an initial salvation away from our former lives...and a process of salvation into a new order...the kingdom order...whereby one can fail and be cut off from God's people.
Not everyone who says Lord, Lord, and/or has memorized the bible will be able to remain in Him.

Even a cursory bible study will show you that...unless one takes indoctrination into account.

stunnedbygrace said:

Should have been saved? They weren't saved when the water stood up and they passed through the sea? It didn't take extreme faith to step out under that humongous tower of water?

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If you know anything about the history of the Israelites after their coming out of Egypt, you would know that almost all of them perished in the wilderness BECAUSE OF UNBELIEF. So they were definitely NOT saved. Indeed at one point God would have destroyed all of them for their idolatry and disobedience had Moses not interceded for them.

stunnedbygrace said:

They had great faith in God to do that! It was their later lack of trust over and over again that displeased Him.

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Yes. A continuing faithfulness is required to finish the process that finishes with an entire salvation which is towards sanctification. So many people stop at a given point that they have decided upon. These say...this far and no farther. But God is the Director...we wait for Him to say "cut". Otherwise we wait patiently for the Lord.