Total adherence to Calvinism makes God the author of evil

  • Welcome to Christian Forums, a Christian Forum that recognizes that all Christians are a work in progress.

    You will need to register to be able to join in fellowship with Christians all over the world.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon and God Bless!

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sounds like loaded questions?? His truth.. meaning??.. the gospel? his creative powers of works in what we observe by our senses everyday..the sky, the moon the oceans..? And that all men should then know the Creator and they are without excuse?

APAK
They are honest questions and foundational to this discussion. It is critical to directly address them.
 
B

brakelite

Guest
When God first approached me through a friend, challenging me if my life would measure up with His approval, I have no doubt the holy Spirit was speaking to me through her, and afterwards directly through my spirit or conscience. It took me several hours too finally admit, no, my life does not measure up, and ask, please God, make my life something you would approve of.
Now you all can make of that what you will. But I know that night, I was born again. I awoke a few hours later a new creature. I give God all the glory, the praise, and the thanks for coming home to me that night, and convincing me to accept His gracious offer of salvation and a new life in Him. Of course, I didn't fully understand the theology behind what took place that night. The term"born again" I had never heard. Calvin and his teachings... Never heard of him. But that night I was born of the will of God... But the love He offered, by its very nature, came with the option of refusal. My accepting His gracious offer does not turn grace into wages. Receiving a gift does not change the nature of the gift. It's still free.. Although it cost Jesus everything
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jane_Doe22

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,853
9,590
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
They are honest questions and foundational to this discussion. It is critical to directly address them.
Truly I really do not know what you are really asking! Maybe I'm making too much out of it...call me ignorant I guess..APAK
 

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Truly I really do not know what you are really asking! Maybe I'm making too much out of it...call me ignorant I guess..APAK
Does God the Spirit testify of His Truth to every single man, woman, and child?
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,853
9,590
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Does God the Spirit testify of His Truth to every single man, woman, and child?
Well as it seems this is a real binary answer requirement, and the you never defined your 'truth,' and without further investigation, I would say yes, overall, although not to all men living on this earth, for the Kingdom. ..APAK

You see if you define truth as the Spirit providing all the requirements for pre-conversion, then no ..to no man.
If you define truth as the gospel message given, then only to some men for the Kingdom.
If you define truth as the Spirit forcing itself into our hearts without our will knowing it...then non, to no man
If you define truth as the Spirit allowing us to think about what conversion can mean to our future lives...no..to no man
How do you think we know and accept the truth for conversion? By the word, and in this case the gospel of the word of life. God moves this truth in Spirit to our hearts and because we are still slaves to sin, we yield our sinful will to the Spirit of life in contrition and humility. Our will is powerless in this decision. The Spirit takes over from that point on. And my own conversion went this way as best as my mind and heart felt.

Blessings,

APAK
 

Laish

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2019
208
251
63
57
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Answering my thoughts here--

Christ died for EVERY SINGLE person who has ever / will ever live on this earth. God loved the ENTIRE world and died for the ENTIRE world. He is no respecter of persons. He testifies to every single person and offers them His gift of salvation.

He does not force a single person. There is no 'privileged' class of people he died for and others he specifically made for damnation.
Ok how dose He testify to every single person , and offer them His free gift ?
Note this free gift are there any strings attached like one must have something or do something if so it’s not free .

Blessings
Bill
 
  • Like
Reactions: SovereignGrace

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Well as it seems this is a real binary answer requirement, and the you never defined your 'truth,' and without further investigation, I would say yes, overall, although not to all men living on this earth, for the Kingdom. ..APAK

You see if you define truth as the Spirit providing all the requirements for pre-conversion, then no ..to no man.
If you define truth as the gospel message given, then only to some men for the Kingdom.
If you define truth as the Spirit forcing itself into our hearts without our will knowing it...then non, to no man
If you define truth as the Spirit allowing us to think about what conversion can mean to our future lives...no..to no man
How do you think we know and accept the truth for conversion? By the word, and in this case the gospel of the word of life. God moves this truth in Spirit to our hearts and because we are still slaves to sin, we yield our sinful will to the Spirit of life in contrition and humility. Our will is powerless in this decision. The Spirit takes over from that point on. And my own conversion went this way as best as my mind and heart felt.

Blessings,

APAK
I'm taking about God the Holy Spirit testifying of His Truths. Does He testify to every single man? Or does He skip some?
 

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ok how dose He testify to every single person , and offer them His free gift ?
Note this free gift are there any strings attached like one must have something or do something if so it’s not free .

Blessings
Bill
I already answered that.
 

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Sorry to have bothered you I will not bother you any more have a good evening .
Blessings
Bill
I'd rather you answer the questions you said you were going to.
(Sorry, I'm just not one for run-around. I answer things directly and appreciate when others do so as well)
 

APAK

Well-Known Member
Feb 4, 2018
8,853
9,590
113
Florida
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I'm taking about God the Holy Spirit testifying of His Truths. Does He testify to every single man? Or does He skip some?
Jane, I'm going to have to sleep on it I'm afraid. I shall return though with 'an answer'.....APAK
 
  • Like
Reactions: Jane_Doe22

Laish

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2019
208
251
63
57
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
Ok how dose God offer this gift to all ?
I will address the other 2 points after ya get back with this one .
Blessings
Bill

Answering my thoughts here--

Christ died for EVERY SINGLE person who has ever / will ever live on this earth. God loved the ENTIRE world and died for the ENTIRE world. He is no respecter of persons. He testifies to every single person and offers them His gift of salvation.

He does not force a single person. There is no 'privileged' class of people he died for and others he specifically made for damnation.
What I asked was how dose He offer this gift to all people.
It’s not all that specific in your reply .
Blessings
Bill
 
  • Like
Reactions: SovereignGrace

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
What I asked was how dose He offer this gift to all people.
It’s not all that specific in your reply .
Blessings
Bill
God testifies to every single person of His Truthfulness through His Spirit. He gives them the choice to accept or reject this gift of testimony & salvation. He does so because He loves every single person.

God does not force anyone: God gives each man a choice. He is no slaver, nor a respecter of persons. Nor did He create any person to just doom them to eternal torture.
 

Laish

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2019
208
251
63
57
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
God testifies to every single person of His Truthfulness through His Spirit. He gives them the choice to accept or reject this gift of testimony & salvation. He does so because He loves every single person.

God does not force anyone: God gives each man a choice. He is no slaver, nor a respecter of persons. Nor did He create any person to just doom them to eternal torture.
I think we are talking past each other. I hope this makes it clear .
Ok the part in bold . How dose everyone get this choice?
Blessings
Bill
 
  • Like
Reactions: SovereignGrace

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
I think we are talking past each other. I hope this makes it clear .
Ok the part in bold . How dose everyone get this choice?
Blessings
Bill
The answer is in the very bold part you're quoting: He [God] gives them the choice.

This is different than Calvinism where all are forced.
 

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
An what of those that never heard? How is the choice presented ?
You are talking about the Gospel right ? If not what ?
Blessings
Bill
Of course I'm talking about the Gospel-- it is God's truth!

I have directly answered your questions several times now. Would you please do that which you promised many questions ago, and address my questions now.
 

Laish

Well-Known Member
Feb 17, 2019
208
251
63
57
Phoenix
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How dose every one hear the gospel ?
When over 1/3 of the people living now never heard ?
That's the question
Blessings
Bill
 
  • Like
Reactions: SovereignGrace

Jane_Doe22

Well-Known Member
Jul 29, 2018
5,241
3,442
113
116
Mid-west USA
Faith
Christian
Country
United States
How dose every one hear the gospel ?
When over 1/3 of the people living now never heard ?
That's the question
Blessings
Bill
Bill, you promised that you would answer my questions after I answered your 1 question, and that was many questions ago.
I'm feeling like you're giving me the run around.