Total adherence to Calvinism makes God the author of evil

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GodsGrace

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I am not you have said what you believe God has done you said He has offered them a choice .
That is not what I asked I said how . How has God offered the choice. How has everyone been made aware of this choice when so many have never heard .
Blessings
Bill
Romans 1:19-20
The bible answers so many of our questions.
 

Helen

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Hi Helen,
Has SG answered you? J

No, he did not...neither ( as you noticed) did Preacher4Christ answer post number #121 that I wrote to him.

Which I guess proves that they are only here to be nasty, poke fun, condemn and make snide remarks at us. They do NOT wish to discuss anything, etc etc etc...
But then again...if they believe that God all by Himself choses people, they don't have to do any "sharing of The Good News" with anyone else .

It's all on God to gather people to Him.

I wonder why half the bible was written then...food for thought.
I also wonder what they do with the two Great Commandments "love God..AND love neighbour ...oh, probably that mean their neighbours are just within their own ranks.

Got it!!
 
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Laish

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Didn't we already have this discussion?
Not sure . I recall folks that I talk to by their avatar so if it has recently changed I may have not remembered a conversation with ya on this . Also I tend to ask questions in relation to how I understand a persons recent post . Hope that helps .

It's easy L,,,,,
God revealed Himself to the Hebrews about 4,000 years ago.
Was man not on earth before that?
Did those men know of the existence of God as explained in
Romans 1:19?

Yes I understand that . Note the context is in sin and having no excuse.
Some folks would understand it as general revelation.
Yes God continued to reveal Himself before before the Hebrews
Good places in Scripture to see this is Genesis especially around the flood account .
How we ( Reformed folks) understand this is the OT saints had faith in God placing their confidence in God in providing a Savior that would come Jesus Christ. Note Job puts his faith in God for a Savior

Job 19:25 “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26”Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;



Did the bible always exist?
Or did it get put together in the 400's?
No the OT existed and was set hundreds of years before the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh .
As for the NT you don’t have to go beyond the NT itself to get the idea that it was being set .

2nd Peter 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction
That and according to writers in the early church show us the NT set well before 400 AD

“As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.

26“Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;


God has always existed.
Man has existed for longer than 3,500 to 4,000 years.

What happened to persons that died BEFORE Abraham?
Before the bible?
Looking above where I gave the example of Job I believe that covers this . In short the OT saints placed their confidence in God providing a savior.
Still I have the question concerning salvation about to day how is one saved without hearing the Gospel?
Blessings
Bill
 

GodsGrace

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Not sure . I recall folks that I talk to by their avatar so if it has recently changed I may have not remembered a conversation with ya on this . Also I tend to ask questions in relation to how I understand a persons recent post . Hope that helps .



Yes I understand that . Note the context is in sin and having no excuse.
Some folks would understand it as general revelation.
Yes God continued to reveal Himself before before the Hebrews
Good places in Scripture to see this is Genesis especially around the flood account .
How we ( Reformed folks) understand this is the OT saints had faith in God placing their confidence in God in providing a Savior that would come Jesus Christ. Note Job puts his faith in God for a Savior

Job 19:25 “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26”Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;




No the OT existed and was set hundreds of years before the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh .
As for the NT you don’t have to go beyond the NT itself to get the idea that it was being set .

2nd Peter 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction
That and according to writers in the early church show us the NT set well before 400 AD

“As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.

26“Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;



Looking above where I gave the example of Job I believe that covers this . In short the OT saints placed their confidence in God providing a savior.
Still I have the question concerning salvation about to day how is one saved without hearing the Gospel?
Blessings
Bill
On phone.
Need my computer for this... Later
 

Laish

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Romans 1:19-20
The bible answers so many of our questions.
I read the Scriptures daily. I try to get at least 2 hours each day. Still learning here though . I think God designed the Scriptures that way .
Note my question arise from what I perceive as differences in our understanding scripture not a lack of reading.
Also my Reformed theological understanding did not come from church attendance or books other than the the Bible and a dictionary. I was a atheist ,alcoholic , addict ,and unchurched wreck before the Lord saved me. I came basically as a blank slate.
Blessings
Bill
 
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GodsGrace

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Not sure . I recall folks that I talk to by their avatar so if it has recently changed I may have not remembered a conversation with ya on this . Also I tend to ask questions in relation to how I understand a persons recent post . Hope that helps .

Yes I understand that . Note the context is in sin and having no excuse.
Some folks would understand it as general revelation.
Yes God continued to reveal Himself before before the Hebrews
Good places in Scripture to see this is Genesis especially around the flood account

We're discussing Romans 1:19-20 here.
You're right that it says that man will have no excuse.
But WHY will man have no excuse??? Exactly because God HAS revealed Himself from the beginning of time.
So that those that heard the gospel will be without an excuse...
AND those that did NOT hear the gospel will ALSO be without an excuse precisely because God has revealed Himself even before the bible and even before Abraham.

So, yes, man will have no excuse because God DID reveal Himself generally (as you put it) from the beginning. You mentioned Noah....Noah knew God. How?
Through General Revelation. This revelation is just as valid as any other.


How we ( Reformed folks) understand this is the OT saints had faith in God placing their confidence in God in providing a Savior that would come Jesus Christ. Note Job puts his faith in God for a Savior

Job 19:25 “As for me, I know that my Redeemer lives,
And at the last He will take His stand on the earth.
26”Even after my skin is destroyed,
Yet from my flesh I shall see God;
Agreed.


No the OT existed and was set hundreds of years before the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh .
As for the NT you don’t have to go beyond the NT itself to get the idea that it was being set .
Agreed.
I just meant that even before the O.T., God made Himself be known to mankind.

2nd Peter 3:15 and regard the patience of our Lord as salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you,16 as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction
That and according to writers in the early church show us the NT set well before 400 AD
Letters existed and were circulating and the pastors were doing the best the could.
The early church spread rapidly and everything had to be copied by hand so it's pretty amazing how fast the church grew.

My point was that the bible was put together, as we have it today, in about the 400's; then it became easier to preach from it...but, yes, preaching was happening even before this. Agreed.


Looking above where I gave the example of Job I believe that covers this . In short the OT saints placed their confidence in God providing a savior.
Still I have the question concerning salvation about to day how is one saved without hearing the Gospel?
Blessings
Bill
Regarding today:
There is only One God.
This one God reveals Himself to persons in different ways.
Do you believe all the believers in God in India that are Hindu and have NEVER heard the gospel are all going to hell?
Is God not one God?

If a persons spirit is in tune with God's spirit, that person must surely be saved.
We Christians believe that God sees the heart of a person.
If God is imprinted on that heart..the person will be saved.

OTOH, IF a person has heard the gospel and REJECTS Jesus who is God,,,well, then I leave that person to God and I make no judgement to a person's soul, I will only say that the person that rejects God cannot go to be with God because of that rejection.

Late here.
Look forward to your reply tomorrow.
 
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Laish

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No, he did not...neither ( as you noticed) did Preacher4Christ answer post number #121 that I wrote to him.

Which I guess proves that they are only here to be nasty, poke fun, condemn and make snide remarks at us. They do NOT wish to discuss anything, etc etc etc...
But then again...if they believe that God all by Himself choses people, they don't have to do any "sharing of The Good News" with anyone else .

It's all on God to gather people to Him.

I wonder why half the bible was written then...food for thought.
I also wonder what they do with the two Great Commandments "love God..AND love neighbour ...oh, probably that mean their neighbours are just within their own ranks.

Got it!!
Your probably on ignore . It’s a feature that will eliminate your posts . They won’t even realize you posted .
Blessings
Bill
 

Laish

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Look forward to your reply tomorrow
Ok . Got ya I thought it was a bit early to hit the hay then I noticed your profile says your from Italy.
You English is good so thinking your a transplant ?
Italy is a interesting place I lived there for five years . In Naples or very close can’t spell the name right . Pozzouli its very close to Naples .
Blessings
Bill
 

GodsGrace

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Ok . Got ya I thought it was a bit early to hit the hay then I noticed your profile says your from Italy.
You English is good so thinking your a transplant ?
Italy is a interesting place I lived there for five years . In Naples or very close can’t spell the name right . Pozzouli its very close to Naples .
Blessings
Bill
Pozzuoli.
Yes. A transplant...
I think Paul landed there on a missionary journey.
I'd have to check, but it does ring bells.
 

Preacher4Truth

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Your probably on ignore . It’s a feature that will eliminate your posts . They won’t even realize you posted .
Blessings
Bill
It's just tiring answering the same thing over and over while they ignore what is said, refuse refutation, reject everything and refuse context. Then they want you to answer it all again, daily.

They don't really study, they live to argue on here all day and never really listen to those who do study.

Then the false accusations from @GodsGrace that I'm only here for her made up list of reasons. OK.

Sorry, have answered her repetitive questions many times, both here and elsewhere.
 

GodsGrace

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It's just tiring answering the same thing over and over while they ignore what is said, refuse refutation, reject everything and refuse context. Then they want you to answer it all again, daily.

They don't really study, they live to argue on here all day and never really listen to those who do study.

Then the false accusations from @GodsGrace that I'm only here for her made up list of reasons. OK.

Sorry, have answered her repetitive questions many times, both here and elsewhere.
Yes, it's so tiring answering the same thing over and over again while you all ignore what is said, refuse refutation, reject everything and refuse context. Then you all want us to answer it again...daily.

You don't really study, you live to argue on here all day and never really listen to those who study.

Then those false accusation from Preacher4Truth, that we're here only for a list of made up reasons. OK.

Sorry, I've answered your repetitive questions many times, both here and elsewhere.

Anyway, what's the use of answering any questions if God has already determined who will be saved and who won't?
 

Jane_Doe22

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A non-Calvinist's objection to Calvinism isn't the fact that God knows everything before it'll happen-- that's completely agree upon.

The point of disagreement is does God offer the gift to all? Does a person who goes to Hell go there 1) because he choose to reject God's gift of salvation, or 2) is it because God created that person willing their forced damnation?
Ok how dose God offer this gift to all ?
I will address the other 2 points after ya get back with this one .
Blessings
Bill
*bump, reminding @Laish about his promise here*
 
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Jane_Doe22

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It's just tiring answering the same thing over and over while they ignore what is said, refuse refutation, reject everything and refuse context. Then they want you to answer it all again, daily.

They don't really study, they live to argue on here all day and never really listen to those who do study.

Then the false accusations from @GodsGrace that I'm only here for her made up list of reasons. OK.

Sorry, have answered her repetitive questions many times, both here and elsewhere.
Could we skip the attacking people and instead answer questions explaining your beliefs? Every question I've asked you has gone un-answered.
 

Laish

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*bump, reminding @Laish about his promise here*
Try answering HoW not what Jane . Get a dictionary look up the two words and see the difference .
I asked How did God make every one aware of the choice . Ok now what did God do . See it’s simple . Now go get your dictionary look up the words ok .
Blessings
Bill
 

Jane_Doe22

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Try answering HoW not what Jane . Get a dictionary look up the two words and see the difference .
I asked How did God make every one aware of the choice . Ok now what did God do . See it’s simple . Now go get your dictionary look up the words ok .
Blessings
Bill
How did God pave the way for the gift of salvation: through His power and sacrifice of His Son on the cross.
What/how: God offers each person this gift salvation. He gives them the choice whether or not to accept this gift and the power to make their choice.
God is not a slaver.

I have addressed your question many times. Please actually answer mine now.
 

Laish

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No how did He give every on a choice . Example
I work with a gentleman from Cambodia he was saved about 10 years after getting here in th United States. He explained that he never even knew of a Jesus or a Moses until he was placed in a refugee center in Europe. He often has said he is blessed for his salvation where his parents an grandparents were never given such a blessing haven never heard. So I ask how those kind of folks were given a choice . I know that nature it self shows their is a God , and we are responsible for sin . Still how is the Gospel of Christ communicated to those folks ?
Blessings
Bill
 

GodsGrace

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No how did He give every on a choice . Example
I work with a gentleman from Cambodia he was saved about 10 years after getting here in th United States. He explained that he never even knew of a Jesus or a Moses until he was placed in a refugee center in Europe. He often has said he is blessed for his salvation where his parents an grandparents were never given such a blessing haven never heard. So I ask how those kind of folks were given a choice . I know that nature it self shows their is a God , and we are responsible for sin . Still how is the Gospel of Christ communicated to those folks ?
Blessings
Bill
My goodness Bill,
It's a simple concept.
§And you owe me a reply .... been waiting on it.

Your friends family,,,never having spoken of God, were probably not saved.
NOT ONLY CHRISTIANS ARE GOING TO HEAVEN.

Jesus said He is the Way, the Truth and the Life.
Jesus is GOD.
God Father and God Jesus are ONE and the Holy Spirit (are ONE).

Are you just tugging our tails?
I think so.
This is not difficult to understand.
 

Jane_Doe22

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No how did He give every on a choice . Example
I work with a gentleman from Cambodia he was saved about 10 years after getting here in th United States. He explained that he never even knew of a Jesus or a Moses until he was placed in a refugee center in Europe. He often has said he is blessed for his salvation where his parents an grandparents were never given such a blessing haven never heard. So I ask how those kind of folks were given a choice . I know that nature it self shows their is a God , and we are responsible for sin . Still how is the Gospel of Christ communicated to those folks ?
Blessings
Bill
@Laish the question of "what happens to those that have never heard of Jesus?" is one that is not point-blank answered in the Bible, and is a separate discussion from Calvinism. If I go down that road it will be majorly de-railing this thread.

Let us keep this thread on topic. I have answered your question many times and have been very patient in waiting for your promised answering of my questions.
 

Enoch111

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If I go down that road it will be majorly de-railing this thread.
When Calvinists are stumped, then they go off on these tangents. And they are really none of our business. It's like asking how many angels can dance on the head of a pin.

'The question "How many angels can dance on the head of a pin?" is a reductio ad absurdum of medieval scholasticism in general...'