Jack Van Impe Challenging Pope Francis to Debate!!

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Nancy

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The Vatican does not sit on any of the 7 hills of Rome, it's on the opposite side of the Tiber River.

Some anti-Catholics claim the Catholic Church is the Whore of Babylon of Revelation 17 and 18. Dave Hunt, in his 1994 book, A Woman Rides the Beast, presents nine arguments to try to prove this. His claims are a useful summary of those commonly used by Fundamentalists, and an examination of them shows why they don’t work.
Is the Catholic Church the Whore of Babylon?

I suppose I was thinking along the lines of what is commonly known as "The Seven Hills Of Rome" and, when I looked into it, I found that Rome originally consisted of small villages and over time, city limits and ordinances and other things changed into what it is today. And, the 7 hills are only a tourist attraction consisting of land ridges and such, making them not as easily identifiable.
As far as the Hunt's, LaHaye's and even the Hal Lindsay's of the world go...I find their stuff nothing more than their own imaginations gone wild. I don't really know anyone other than one who is ignorant, of course, who believes the CC itself is the Beast but I do have to listen to and research certain things said about the office of the Papacy and other organizations (secular) when given scripture. I do allow only God to say for certain who/what/when/why and where all will be said and done.
His Blessings,
nancy
 
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Nancy

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Or, if you don't have time, feel free to question me about it risk free :) Differences of opinion shouldn't be a barrier to friendship - unless the friend thinks I should stop breathing or something LOL
"unless the friend thinks I should stop breathing or something LOL"
:rolleyes: :D You would def be my go to with this subject. ;)
 
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Phoneman777

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God trumps Charles Spurgeon, Einstein . . .

Exodus 20:16
Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
Please don't lecture me on the 9th commandment when papists changed the 4th from Sabbath to Sunday, ripped out the 2nd which condemns the images which fill papal churches, and tore the 10th into two in order to make up the difference.
 
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Phoneman777

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It appears the "infallible" SDA are going to dominate another thread with false histories, misrepresentations, hate, and lies. They make videos that scare little children.
C'mon, please be specific about what's "falsely" said about the papacy. And please remember the criticism is against the teachings, not the individuals.
 

Phoneman777

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I suppose I was thinking along the lines of what is commonly known as "The Seven Hills Of Rome" and, when I looked into it, I found that Rome originally consisted of small villages and over time, city limits and ordinances and other things changed into what it is today. And, the 7 hills are only a tourist attraction consisting of land ridges and such, making them not as easily identifiable.
As far as the Hunt's, LaHaye's and even the Hal Lindsay's of the world go...I find their stuff nothing more than their own imaginations gone wild. I don't really know anyone other than one who is ignorant, of course, who believes the CC itself is the Beast but I do have to listen to and research certain things said about the office of the Papacy and other organizations (secular) when given scripture. I do allow only God to say for certain who/what/when/why and where all will be said and done.
His Blessings,
nancy
Excellent! Yes, Rome was known as the "city on Seven Hills" and for us to deny that John's apocalyptic reference is of the papacy is just an example of stubborn refusal to let go of Jesuit Futurism. It's like when they refuse to accept the 10 horns that stood when the dust of the fallen Roman Empire settled. Because there are no longer 10 horns - many nations have since grown up in Europe - the horns are denied, even though there's nothing Scripturally that prevents any additions to the 10 or that the Vatican must rest upon all seven hills. :D
 
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Nancy

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Excellent! Yes, Rome was known as the "city on Seven Hills" and for us to deny that John's apocalyptic reference is of the papacy is just an example of stubborn refusal to let go of Jesuit Futurism. It's like when they refuse to accept the 10 horns that stood when the dust of the fallen Roman Empire settled. Because there are no longer 10 horns - many nations have since grown up in Europe - the horns are denied, even though there's nothing Scripturally that prevents any additions to the 10 or that the Vatican must rest upon all seven hills. :D

Okay, I hope you got your breath back after that, lol. Palatine Hill is the one thought to be where Rome was founded. I wonder if it is even a hill anymore. I really wish the Church's would teach on this more, or even at all!
 
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Nancy

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Question: Why are you holding a turtle thing? LOL
Lol...it is actually a stuffed dinosaur. Just one of the funny little things to distract the kids from a needle! Didn't work very well as, usually nothing does, lol. But, they played with it after wards and, if mom or dad said okay they got to stick their hand in the candy bowl! And we also had real fun band-aids. :D Oh yes, I named her Dina haha.
 
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Nancy

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Lol...it is actually a stuffed dinosaur. Just one of the funny little things to distract the kids from a needle! Didn't work very well as, usually nothing does, lol. But, they played with it after wards and, if mom or dad said okay they got to stick their hand in the candy bowl! And we also had real fun band-aids. :D Oh yes, I named her Dina haha.

BTW- don't remember why I was holding it...we had silly times if a slow day so, who knows?? lol
 

Phoneman777

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Lol...it is actually a stuffed dinosaur. Just one of the funny little things to distract the kids from a needle! Didn't work very well as, usually nothing does, lol. But, they played with it after wards and, if mom or dad said okay they got to stick their hand in the candy bowl! And we also had real fun band-aids. :D Oh yes, I named her Dina haha.
"Clever girl" (from J.P.) LOL
 
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BreadOfLife

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Please don't lecture me on the 9th commandment when papists changed the 4th from Sabbath to Sunday, ripped out the 2nd which condemns the images which fill papal churches, and tore the 10th into two in order to make up the difference.
Time for a BIBLE and a Hebrew lesson . . .

In Exodus 20, where we first see the list of Commandments, we read in verses 3 and 5 that this is not simply a commandment against the making of statues and images. It is clearly talking about not making gods out of them and not bowing to them and serving them. The Church has always condemned this practice as well.

If this were a Commandment against the creation of images and statues, then God would have violated His own law by commanding Moses just a few chapters later to create 2 golden images of Cherubim to place atop the Ark (Exod. 25:18-22). His supposed hypocrisy would have also extended to commanding Moses later on to create a bronze serpent and place it on a pole so that those who looked upon it would be healed (Num. 21:8-9). We also read other examples of God being pleased with the creation of statues (I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). When we read those verses in context, we see that God’s prohibition is against making idols to worship and not the creation of images. This is ALL covered in the Catholic rendering of the first Commandment about having “other gods”.

Exodus 34:28 tells us that there are “Ten” commandments, even though Bible doesn’t number them. As a matter of fact, if you were to count all of the “You shall nots” alongside the other two that command the keeping of the Sabbath and honoring your father and mother – you would wind up with at least thirteen. Numbering them depends on exactly which “You shall nots” you group together and which ones you leave separate.

Protestants commonly split up the first Commandment into two and combine the last two into one, where we see a prohibition against the coveting of your neighbor’s wife and of his property. Women and property are NOT the same thing. Gal. 3:26-28 tells us that there is NO difference among those belong to Christ:
“For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus.”

An ignorant anti-Catholic like YOU might take the position that you are simply taking the text at face value and that this is what is being taught. Oh, really? Remember that there are TWO versions of the listing of the Commandments in the Old Testament. To put them in their proper context, we need to examine BOTH listings.

In Deuteronomy 5, we see another version of the list. Here, we see a CLEAR distinction between a man’s wife and his property. A different word for the desire of a man’s property is used than that of the desire for his wife.

Chamad (תחמד), is used to describe the coveting a man’s wife as opposed to 'Avah (תתאוה), which is used to describe the desire for a man’s property. Chamad has a connotation of sexual desire and lust, whereas, ‘Avah means to crave or to be greedy for something material.

We now see that there are two different Commandments here and not ONE jumbled, all-inclusive commandment. Remember that in Gen. 2:24, God declared that, in the union between a husband and wife, the two become ONE flesh. Jesus reiterates this fact in Mark 10:8.

There ends the lesson for now.

Since you seem content to wallow in ignorance - the above is more for thee people who want to learn . . .
 
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Phoneman777

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Time for a BIBLE and a Hebrew lesson . . .

In Exodus 20, where we first see the list of Commandments, we read in verses 3 and 5 that this is not simply a commandment against the making of statues and images. It is clearly talking about not making gods out of them and not bowing to them and serving them. The Church has always condemned this practice as well.

If this were a Commandment against the creation of images and statues, then God would have violated His own law by commanding Moses just a few chapters later to create 2 golden images of Cherubim to place atop the Ark (Exod. 25:18-22). His supposed hypocrisy would have also extended to commanding Moses later on to create a bronze serpent and place it on a pole so that those who looked upon it would be healed (Num. 21:8-9). We also read other examples of God being pleased with the creation of statues (I Kings 6:23-28, 9:3). When we read those verses in context, we see that God’s prohibition is against making idols to worship and not the creation of images. This is ALL covered in the Catholic rendering of the first Commandment about having “other gods”.

Exodus 34:28 tells us that there are “Ten” commandments, even though Bible doesn’t number them. As a matter of fact, if you were to count all of the “You shall nots” alongside the other two that command the keeping of the Sabbath and honoring your father and mother – you would wind up with at least thirteen. Numbering them depends on exactly which “You shall nots” you group together and which ones you leave separate.

Protestants commonly split up the first Commandment into two and combine the last two into one, where we see a prohibition against the coveting of your neighbor’s wife and of his property. Women and property are NOT the same thing. Gal. 3:26-28 tells us that there is NO difference among those belong to Christ:
“For through faith you are all children of God in Christ Jesus. For all of you who were baptized into Christ have clothed yourselves with Christ. There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free person, there is not male and female; for you are all ONE in Christ Jesus.”

An ignorant anti-Catholic like YOU might take the position that you are simply taking the text at face value and that this is what is being taught. Oh, really? Remember that there are TWO versions of the listing of the Commandments in the Old Testament. To put them in their proper context, we need to examine BOTH listings.

In Deuteronomy 5, we see another version of the list. Here, we see a CLEAR distinction between a man’s wife and his property. A different word for the desire of a man’s property is used than that of the desire for his wife.

Chamad (תחמד), is used to describe the coveting a man’s wife as opposed to 'Avah (תתאוה), which is used to describe the desire for a man’s property. Chamad has a connotation of sexual desire and lust, whereas, ‘Avah means to crave or to be greedy for something material.

We now see that there are two different Commandments here and not ONE jumbled, all-inclusive commandment. Remember that in Gen. 2:24, God declared that, in the union between a husband and wife, the two become ONE flesh. Jesus reiterates this fact in Mark 10:8.

There ends the lesson for now.

Since you seem content to wallow in ignorance - the above is more for thee people who want to learn . . .
I didn't bother to read the above, because there's no need for further examination of what the papacy has done: the Bible says the "Little Horn" Antichrist "would think to change times and laws" which was fulfilled by the papacy when they (thought to) change God's Ten Commandments by erasing the 2nd, gutting the 4th and replacing the Sabbath with Sunday, and chopping the 10th into two in order to make up the void left by getting rid of the 2nd.

But, it can be argued that the papacy has changed EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Ten Commandments. For instance, the encyclical Rerum Novarum allows for the breaking of the 8th Commandment in order to meet one's need, as in the case of the need for food, or to meet the need of another by stealing from one who has an abundance.

They Have Made Void Thy Law Part 1
They Have Made Void Thy Law Part 2
 
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BreadOfLife

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I didn't bother to read the above, because there's no need for further examination of what the papacy has done: the Bible says the "Little Horn" Antichrist "would think to change times and laws" which was fulfilled by the papacy when they (thought to) change God's Ten Commandments by erasing the 2nd, gutting the 4th and replacing the Sabbath with Sunday, and chopping the 10th into two in order to make up the void left by getting rid of the 2nd.

But, it can be argued that the papacy has changed EVERY SINGLE ONE of the Ten Commandments. For instance, the encyclical Rerum Novarum allows for the breaking of the 8th Commandment in order to meet one's need, as in the case of the need for food, or to meet the need of another by stealing from one who has an abundance.

They Have Made Void Thy Law Part 1
They Have Made Void Thy Law Part 2
No - you didn't read my last post because you are an uninformed anti-Catholic and have chosen to remain ignorant.

As for your second idiotic statement in RED - if you HAD read my last post, it would seem clearer to you.
The rest of your post reads like the the moronic SDA playbook written by your false prophetess, Ellen G. White . . .
 

Phoneman777

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No - you didn't read my last post because you are an uninformed anti-Catholic and have chosen to remain ignorant.

As for your second idiotic statement in RED - if you HAD read my last post, it would seem clearer to you.
The rest of your post reads like the the moronic SDA playbook written by your false prophetess, Ellen G. White . . .
If you don't stop denying the teachings of the papacy, I'm going to report you to the Congregation For the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly known as the Office of the INQUISITION) for the crime of heresy :)
 
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Nancy

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If you don't stop denying the teachings of the papacy, I'm going to report you to the Congregation For the Doctrine of the Faith (formerly known as the Office of the INQUISITION) for the crime of heresy :)

Huh, can you really do that? Lol.
 

Phoneman777

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Huh, can you really do that? Lol.
Well, considering that the Jesuits probably monitor everyone who speaks out against them, I'd say they know all about DB's heresy by now LOL
 
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